Wrongly fined €150 for illegal dumping

kirving · 15-07-2017 2:40pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

The council did their job a suggestion of further investigation tbh is nonsense.

So it stops there?

Issuing fines is the low hanging fruit here, and doesn't actually solve the problem. Nor does it punish the dumper.

Foolish of me to think that the council will do a tap more work than they have to.

Reminds me of the bus inspectors, they won't even bother speaking to the druggies upstairs at the back.

Dr Ben · 15-07-2017 2:41pm

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

good faith isn't worth a toss in court. You are responsible for your waste until a licensed waste contractor takes responsibility for its disposal/recovery.
i.e. it is your responsibility to make sure you engage legit operators.

the Council are doing the right thing, why would you need to "shame" them?

Because an old woman has been ripped off by cowboy buliders and now the council want to fine her for something she didnt do.

Hitman3000 · 15-07-2017 2:43pm

Kevin Irving wrote:

So it stops there?

Yep it does, council has a name that person is liable unless they can prove otherwise.

Dr Ben · 15-07-2017 2:45pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Yep it does, council has a name that person is liable unless they can prove otherwise.

I thought law said a person was innocent till proven guilty ?

Hitman3000 · 15-07-2017 2:45pm

Dr Ben wrote:

Because an old woman has been ripped off by cowboy buliders and now the council want to fine her for something she didnt do.

She's not being fined, the OP is and as far as the council is concerned it's his rubbish making him responsible.

Royal Legend · 15-07-2017 2:45pm

Dr Ben wrote: »

Because an old woman has been ripped off by cowboy buliders and now the council want to fine her for something she didnt do.

The poor woman is a victim of the builder, the council and her lazy son, no doubt about that. the only issue is that the cowboy or the council would never have been at her door only for her lazy son.

FelchWivMe · 15-07-2017 2:48pm

Royal Legend wrote: »

The poor woman is a victim of the builder, the council and her lazy son, no doubt about that. the only issue is that the cowboy or the council would never have been at her door only for her lazy son.

You're so judgemental it's hilarious and sickening in equal measure. Sitting behind a keyboard makes you judge, jury and executioner, eh?

Hitman3000 · 15-07-2017 2:50pm

Dr Ben wrote:

I thought law said a person was innocent till proven guilty ?

Of course it does, the OP can dispute the fine in court if he wishes that option is open to him. The council found his details in dumped rubbish, they have identified him as an illegal dumper and issued a fine. It's up to the OP to prove he's not an illegal dumper. Simple really.

kirving · 15-07-2017 2:51pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Yep it does, council has a name that person is liable unless they can prove otherwise.

Do you actually think that an acceptable way to work?

Once the jobsworth in the council has "a name" to fill into the form, then that's their job done.

I could print your address on a letter and dump it, and you get a fine. Foolproof, another good job done by the council.

wordofwarning · 15-07-2017 2:53pm

FelchWivMe wrote: »

The guy and his mother were taken advantage of and conned and a bunch of ye are putting the blame on him and pontificating on your little thrones. Great to see that this website is still a smug kip.

You can't put on liveline without hearing at least once a week about a heart sobbing story of an OAP taken advantage of by builders by calling an ad that came in her door or the local newspaper. Despite this every week on liveline, boards.ie etc there is another old person 'taken advantage of'... It is bizarre that people can't put 2+2 together.

Is the person really taken advantage or just lacking cop on if they are responding to dodgy ads in the local paper or coming ads coming in their front door? I seriously think it is the latter. A decent builder in 2017 does not need to advertise, as they are out the door with work.

People are not smug or on little thrones. They sick of hearing about poor OAPs 'taken advantage of', when in reality someone did not use their cop on. OAPs mother was going to the bank etc and had time to call OP. But not the Gardai? Where is the logic in that?

I know it is not what OP wants to hear or most of the posters want to hear either. She had time to call OP, but not the Gardai...

OP you are responsible for the disposal of your waste. I can't imagine the CoCo caring about you using a cowboy builder.

Royal Legend · 15-07-2017 2:53pm

FelchWivMe wrote: »

You're so judgemental it's hilarious and sickening in equal measure. Sitting behind a keyboard makes you judge, jury and executioner, eh?

and your username is both hilarious and sickening in equal measure :rolleyes:

Judgemental, what does the OP expect, he has dropped his mother in it by being lazy.
Hark back to the OP's opening paragraph

"We availed of a 'classified' ad in Northside People in April for someone to come and fix a gutter issue where birds were nesting."

Note he wrote "We", the OAP was not taken for a ride but the OP himself. His mother probably thought getting the attic cleared for €200 was a good deal, without thinking that the cowboys would dump illegally, not her fault, but she would never have met these people only for her son. There is a reason why builder, electricians, Plumbers etc are or become registered, it is so that there is a comeback for the client. the son took the cheap option for his mother and now she is paying for his mistake. the OP needs to take it on the chin, pay the fine for his mother and move on.

Hitman3000 · 15-07-2017 2:56pm

Kevin Irving wrote:

Do you actually think that an acceptable way to work?

Yep

Kevin Irving wrote:

Once the jobsworth in the council has "a name" to fill into the form, then that's their job done.

The b*stards how dear they do what they're paid to do.

Kevin Irving wrote:

I could print your address on a letter and dump it, and you get a fine. Foolproof, another good job done by the council.

So now you suggest the council engage in fraud?

screamer · 15-07-2017 3:01pm

They find rubbish with post or official documents with names and addresses inside they issue a fine to the addressee. There's no way out of it pay the fine and make sure anyone taking rubbish in future has a permit. BTW someone had to clean all that rubbish up its not free.

Dr Ben · 15-07-2017 3:06pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Of course it does, the OP can dispute the fine in court if he wishes that option is open to him. The council found his details in dumped rubbish, they have identified him as an illegal dumper and issued a fine. It's up to the OP to prove he's not an illegal dumper. Simple really.

So the OP is guilty until he can prove hes innocent.

It should be up to the court to prove he dumped the rubbish before any fines are given out.

Hitman3000 · 15-07-2017 3:09pm

Dr Ben wrote:

So the OP is guilty until he can prove hes innocent.

The litter act makes that assumption not me.

Dr Ben wrote:

It should be up to the court to prove he dumped the rubbish before any fines are given out.

Nah much better and cost effective the way it is.

dr.fuzzenstein · 15-07-2017 3:15pm

Royal Legend wrote: »

and your username is both hilarious and sickening in equal measure :rolleyes:

Yours should be <Mod:snip>
So the cowboy builder is alright and can continue, since the incompetent gombeens at the council won't bother their hole going after them?

OP, don't listen to <Mod:snip> on the internet, contact the gards and a solicitor.

Hitman3000 · 15-07-2017 3:21pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote:

OP, don't listen to **** and gobsh*tes on the internet, contact the gards and a solicitor.

Or read the litter act, might save him the cost of a solicitor and a larger fine.
Even **** and gobsh*tes know stuff.

kirving · 15-07-2017 3:35pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

The b*stards how dear they do what they're paid to do.

Clearly, and not a tap more. God forbid they actually did a bit of work rather than blindly issue fines.

For what it's worth, I think the OP should certainly be cautioned by the council against using unregistered waste collectors.

I think the last thing the OP or his mother were concerned about with 5 men at the door would be their waste disposal licence.

Hitman3000 · 15-07-2017 3:38pm

Kevin Irving wrote:

Clearly, and not a tap more. God forbid they actually did a bit of work rather than blindly issue fines.

They found the OP's name amongst dumped rubbish and attributed it to him. This proves they did do a bit of work, as for blindly issue how so? Even the OP has admitted it was his.

dr.fuzzenstein · 15-07-2017 3:42pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

They found the OP's name amongst dumped rubbish and attributed it to him. This proves they did do a bit of work, as for blindly issue how so? Even the OP has admitted it was his.

The problem is that the cowboy can carry on illegally dumping rubbish because the council don't care.

Hitman3000 · 15-07-2017 3:46pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote:

The problem is that the cowboy can carry on illegally dumping rubbish because the council don't care.

Not if people stop using him to remove their rubbish. Phonebook is full of rubbish removal companies with their waste permit number on display. Use a licensed operator no problems.
The fact the council issues fines to illegal dumpers when they can find them disproves the last part of your comment.

BorneTobyWilde · 15-07-2017 3:49pm

They have no morals these scammers. An old lady close to me was duped into having a small drive power washed. It's only big enough to hold a car, and for me took as look as washing a car to power wash it, yet they demanded 500 euros for the 15 mins.

Royal Legend · 15-07-2017 3:54pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Yours should be Royal Twat
So the cowboy builder is alright and can continue, since the incompetent gombeens at the council won't bother their hole going after them?

OP, don't listen to **** and gobsh*tes on the internet, contact the gards and a solicitor.

Maybe you should look up what his name means, or maybe you already know and are into that kind of thing :rolleyes:

By the way the council would go after them if they left their name and details in the rubbish. by the way great advice to the OP, get him to waste more money to a solicitor and talk to the Garda who might/might not laugh at his stupidity.

You also seem to be missing the point that he drew these fkucers on his own mother, probably to save money !!

Dr Ben · 15-07-2017 4:24pm

Royal Legend wrote: »

stupidity.

You also seem to be missing the point that he drew these fkucers on his own mother, probably to save money !!

Since when was trying to save money a crime ?

Dr Ben · 15-07-2017 4:26pm

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

They have no morals these scammers. An old lady close to me was duped into having a small drive power washed. It's only big enough to hold a car, and for me took as look as washing a car to power wash it, yet they demanded 500 euros for the 15 mins.

Another thing to remember about these people that if you turn them down they can get very aggressive.

Its no wonder old people are afraid of them.

Hitman3000 · 15-07-2017 4:29pm

Dr Ben wrote:

Since when was trying to save money a crime ?

Its not, but you tend to get what you pay for. The OP should not have allowed this chancer remove anything before he saw his waste permit licence.

Royal Legend · 15-07-2017 4:30pm

Dr Ben wrote: »

Since when was trying to save money a crime ?

When you use illegal methods to dispose of your waste

lucernarian · 15-07-2017 5:40pm

Royal Legend wrote: »

When you use illegal methods to dispose of your disposal

This is incredible, a supposed licenced operator can get away with industrialised pollution: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/donegal-refuse-collector-a-serial-environmental-offender-1.3081208 while a clearly distressed poster is getting read the riot act for having some people paid to take care of rubbish. Should we have the 30% or so of people In Donegal who still use Ferry's to be given a clap on the back for using a "licenced operator"?

The law squarely punishes individuals with fixed penalty notices and yet the law, local authorities and courts are both ineffective and offer risible punishments to mass-scale violations.

I'm also surprised that people on this forum of all places would take this line...

Hitman3000 · 15-07-2017 5:47pm

lucernarian wrote:

This is incredible, a supposed licenced operator can get away with industrialised pollution (

Link doesn't work.

lucernarian wrote:

while a clearly distressed poster is getting read the riot act for having some people paid to take care of rubbish. Should we have the 30% or so of people In Donegal who still use Ferry's to be given a clap on the back for using a "licenced operator"?

So the use of a Ferry is somehow similar to illegal dumping, explain please

lucernarian wrote:

The law squarely punishes individuals with fixed penalty notices and yet the law, local authorities and courts are both ineffective and offer risible punishments to mass-scale violations.

You are required to be responsible with the disposal of waste. The fine is for irresponsibility.

lucernarian wrote:

I'm also surprised that people on this forum of all places would take this line...

Why because you feel everyone should agree with the OP, differing opinions upset you?

Roger Hassenforder · 15-07-2017 7:15pm

Dr Ben wrote: »

Because an old woman has been ripped off by cowboy buliders and now the council want to fine her for something she didnt do.

the facts of the matter are:
A person used an unlicensed waste contractor to dispose of their waste, and it ended up as litter. With evidence linking the litter to the person.

What is it you think that she didn't do?
What she didn't do, is use a licensed waste disposal contractor to remover her/OP's waste.

but...but...she didn't put it where the "jobsworth" from the Council found it?. Is this the sum of your argument?

Its a very simple concept:
the onus is on you to ensure your waste is disposed of properly.
Not to do so is an offence.

the_syco · 15-07-2017 7:25pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Its not, but you tend to get what you pay for. The OP should not have allowed this chancer remove anything before he saw his waste permit licence.

Cop the fcuk on, will you? Five men (I'm guessing travelers from their opious moandi) took what they wanted whilst the OP wasn't there.

Royal Legend wrote: »

OP was looking for a cheap option of doing work on his mothers house instead of looking up a guttering expert or a registered builder

Are you saying that that builders don't also advertise their services in the Northside People?

the_syco · 15-07-2017 7:28pm

paulb06 wrote: »

The issue I have is that he emptied our attic out of the stuff that was up there (old stuff that we never threw out, black bags) - my mam didn't know all my personal stuff was there either, he put them all in his truck (after leaving and coming back with 4 other men)

Basically, five men stole everything in the OP's attic, and now the OP was gotten fined for the pleasure.

Dr Ben · 15-07-2017 8:32pm

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

the facts of the matter are:
A person used an unlicensed waste contractor to dispose of their waste, and it ended up as litter. With evidence linking the litter to the person.

What is it you think that she didn't do?
What she didn't do, is use a licensed waste disposal contractor to remover her/OP's waste.

but...but...she didn't put it where the "jobsworth" from the Council found it?. Is this the sum of your argument?

Its a very simple concept:
the onus is on you to ensure your waste is disposed of properly.
Not to do so is an offence.

An elderly woman was taking advantage of yet they they fine her instead of going after the scumbags that ripped her off.

Sure Ireland is a great little country to be a criminal.

Sleeper12 · 15-07-2017 9:22pm

You paid 200 for the work done.

It would cost you 150 or more for a skip.

Fine is for 150.

I don't see where the problem is tbh

Royal Legend · 15-07-2017 9:25pm

the_syco wrote: »

Basically, five men stole everything in the OP's attic, and now the OP was gotten fined for the pleasure.

So 5 (five) men, possibly travellers, but not confirmed, stole everything in the OP's attic and instead of going to the Garda and reporting the theft, he comes on here giving out about a fine for illegal dumping. P.S. He has the phone details of the "contractor" do why not contact the Gaurds?

degsie · 15-07-2017 9:28pm

the_syco wrote: »

Cop the fcuk on, will you? Five men (I'm guessing travelers from their opious moandi) took what they wanted whilst the OP wasn't there.

Is that a new thing now?

2012paddy2012 · 15-07-2017 9:41pm

Appeal the fine setting out the circumstances. There is always an appeal process. Report the incident to the gardai giving as much info as possible.
Include that fact in your written appeal. Of course leaving it so long until you got the fine seems rather strange ..if you were that concerned about your mother the matter should have been reported immediately.
Makes me wonder. Chances of success ..50/50.

Royal Legend · 15-07-2017 9:44pm

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

Appeal the fine setting out the circumstances. There is always an appeal process. Report the incident to the gardai giving as much info as possible.
Include that fact in your written appeal. Of course leaving it so long until you got the fine seems rather strange ..if you were that concerned about your mother the matter should have been reported immediately.
Makes me wonder. Chances of success ..50/50.

exactly, i feel sorry for his mother not him, he was looking for a cheap way to clear rubbish out of his mother attic and it backfired.

Hitman3000 · 15-07-2017 11:13pm

the_syco wrote:

Cop the fcuk on, will you? Five men (I'm guessing travelers from their opious moandi) took what they wanted whilst the OP wasn't there.

So instead of moaning here how come he hasn't reported them for theft?

Roger Hassenforder · 15-07-2017 11:13pm

Dr Ben wrote: »

An elderly woman was taking advantage of yet they they fine her instead of going after the scumbags that ripped her off.

Sure Ireland is a great little country to be a criminal.

ideally they can get the scum bags using the flyer the OP availed of.
from my reading of it, the OP was fined, not the little old lady.

we're still left, how ever distasteful, with the fact that the OP/mother used an unlicensed waste disposal contractor because they were cheap. A legit waste contractor would be more expensive, because the waste is disposed of properly. The chickens are well and truly home and roosting.

everything was hunky dory since April, OP got his work done cheap, and despite the hassling, intimidation, seemed quite happy to not report the scumbags to the AGS, and let other fall foul of them. "sure I'm all right Jack"
But, here we are in July, and now that it has blown up in his face, suddenly there's a brouhaha about these scammers threatening and intimidation his old dear. TBH, if I thought my old dear was threatened/intimidated by trades me , Boards wouldnt be my first port of call. 3 months later.

Hitman3000 · 15-07-2017 11:15pm

Dr Ben wrote:

An elderly woman was taking advantage of yet they they fine her instead of going after the scumbags that ripped her off.

They didn't fine her, the OP is being fined for illegal dumping not his Mum.

Dr Ben · 16-07-2017 12:24am

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

. A legit waste contractor would be more expensive, because the waste is disposed of properly.

You won't find any legit waste contractors in Ireland they all are very dodgy when you look into them and have their accounts off shore.

The latest scam is that they now want the "right" to access private property and fine people who put their rubbish in the wrong bin.

colm_mcm · 16-07-2017 12:31am

Legit waste contractors that don't dump your bags in ditches is what was meant.

Hitman3000 · 16-07-2017 12:34am

Dr Ben wrote:

You won't find any legit waste contractors in Ireland they all are very dodgy when you look into them and have their accounts off shore.

Really?

Dr Ben · 16-07-2017 12:34am

colm_mcm wrote: »

Legit waste contractors that don't dump your bags in ditches is what was meant.

One of the big waste firms in Dublin have been known to take part in illegal dumping.

There was even criminal charges brought against one company.

Grab All Association · 16-07-2017 12:41am

laotg wrote: »

Very confusing OP. So the lad comes and quotes 3500 to sort out the birds nest, your mother gets it down to 2000 but eventually ends up paying 200. After this massive discount he then goes and takes your rubbish from the attic without you or your mother asking him to?

You have evidence of what you texted your friends, no court in the land will accept that as proof of anything.

So the judge would rule that the OP has obviously traveled back in time weeks/months before the fine was issued to falsify text messages between him and his friend?

enterprise2017 · 16-07-2017 12:49am

paulb06 wrote: »

Hi,

Would like some advice.

We availed of a 'classified' ad in Northside People in April for someone to come and fix a gutter issue where birds were nesting.

The man came out to my mother on her own while I was in work, had a look at the problem and quoted her €3.5k to sort it out. She said no way, however he went and done it anyway and demanded €2000 after the work was done. Basically a cowboy builder, anyway to cut a long story short, he ended up taking just €200 from us which already explains the type of person he was.

The issue I have is that he emptied our attic out of the stuff that was up there (old stuff that we never threw out, black bags) - my mam didn't know all my personal stuff was there either, he put them all in his truck (after leaving and coming back with 4 other men) then he went and 'fixed' the gutter telling us the rubbish would be sent to a recycling facility - never received evidence of this and now I know why.

Only today have I received a illegal littering fine of €150, the absolute moron dumped the rubbish and never sent it to a recycling facility, I received a photo from the council of a big pile of rubbish, all of it was not mine, with photocopies of my wage slips (shoebox of all old wage slips that I kept was taken when he took all the black bags from the attic)

I have the classified ad still as the experience we had was disgraceful.

What are my options regarding appealing this fine?

I am willing to fight this all the way, my mother was intimidated by this asshole and he knew this.

I have screenshots of conversations with friends over what happened back in April so I am hoping this will be some sort of evidence to show what went on and that it wasn't us who dumped this, furthermore if I was illegally dumping, which I NEVER would, why would I be that stupid to throw out all my wage slips and personal information with them?

Sorry for the long post.

Tell you have you consulted a lawyer?

Hitman3000 · 16-07-2017 12:52am

enterprise2017 wrote:

Tell you have you consulted a lawyer?

The suggestion now is to go to America for legal advice?

Hitman3000 · 16-07-2017 12:56am

Grab All Association wrote:

So the judge would rule that the OP has obviously traveled back in time weeks/months before the fine was issued to falsify text messages between him and his friend?

Any thoughts that the OP is slightly economical with the truth?

Mrs Shuttleworth · 16-07-2017 1:01am

Dr Ben wrote: »

So the OP is guilty until he can prove hes innocent.

It should be up to the court to prove he dumped the rubbish before any fines are given out.

The OP's story is disjointed with holes in it but a similar incident happened to me 20 years ago.

I used a local accountant who dumped his rubbish in black sacks on the path untagged and the Council found a carbon copy (those were the days) of a letter to me and fined me for the privilege.

I went on The Gerry Ryan Show about it, got grovelling apologies all round and small amount of compo from DCC.

Wrongly fined €150 for illegal dumping

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