So it's the 12th of July tomorrow. Will the North ever not be sectarian?

McMurphy · 12-07-2017 11:23AM

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Lol.

A nationalist from the north referring to a southerner as an "Irish fenian"?

Obviously all the northern based GAA county teams have a long history of trouble making and hostility towards local residents on match days when they reach Dublin too.

Complete bollocks.

Ce he sin · 12-07-2017 11:25AM

end of the road wrote: »

no . 51% vote for a ui then it must happen. those who don't want to be part of ireland can go back to britain.

And suppose they want to stay just where they are and not live in Ireland. Suppose for example that those in Unionist majority areas decide by way of vote they want to form their own mini state and rejoin the UK. How would you react to that democratic decision? Ethnic cleansing?

seamus · 12-07-2017 11:31AM

Rick Shaw wrote: »

My best guess is because theyre already 'Irish' residing outside of Ireland.

The North is a state that exists seperate to Ireland (they can check their passports for verification of this)

The harsh reality for many nationalist is, that once they embark on a journey down to the Republic, they're broadly looked upon as 'Brits' anyway.

Green or blue, it's no matter to most of the Irish Republic, you're simply British down there.

See what I did there?

It's two sides of the same coin. All of the reasons why nationalists want a United Ireland have a counter-argument for why unionists don't.

The only reasonable course of action is to take unionism and nationalism off the table. Create a completely independent state, "Flegland" or something, that is neither Irish nor British, but allow the residents to retain either nationality.

That removes nationality as something to fight about.

VinLieger · 12-07-2017 11:34AM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Failing that just get the +50% vote for unification and pull the plaster off quickly.

So basically "we cant fix the issues cus we cant stop behaving like spoilt children, lets make it somebody elses problem and they can also pay for the ****storm it creates?"

Syphonax · 12-07-2017 11:35AM

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

LOL

Rick Shaw wrote: »

Lol.

A nationalist from the north referring to a southerner as an "Irish fenian"?

Obviously all the northern based GAA county teams have a long history of trouble making and hostility towards local residents on match days when they reach Dublin too.

Complete bollocks.

<<<what he said

Syphonax · 12-07-2017 11:38AM

6541 wrote: »

No I just said hello to her, also earlier in another bar I was talking to some women who identified as east Belfast women, they had never met anyone from the south ! We haven't a hope of unity or friendship with these people. They are 50 years behind us.

They are a strange lot, even the northern Irish are a bit odd. They all have a chip on their shoulder. Its like Irish people down south and English people in Britain, owe them something or other

Dyr · 12-07-2017 11:42AM

seamus wrote: »

And the Sinn Fein "types" are Irish citizens now and their descendents if they choose. So why do they want a United Ireland at all?

Have a think about that and you might realise why unionists wouldn't want a UI, regardless of what citizenship they get to keep.

I don't need to have a think about anything. that post wasn't an invitation to debate I was just pointing out that you're completely wrong.

seamus · 12-07-2017 11:47AM

Bambi wrote: »

I don't need to have a think about anything. that post wasn't an invitation to debate I was just pointing out that you're completely wrong.

Ah right, the fingers in the ears approach. Fair enough.

red ears · 12-07-2017 11:50AM

6541 wrote: »

No I just said hello to her, also earlier in another bar I was talking to some women who identified as east Belfast women, they had never met anyone from the south ! We haven't a hope of unity or friendship with these people. They are 50 years behind us.

Sounds like you were chatting away to anyone you met with an Irish accent which is a little naive, particularly with northern people. As you say the hatred can be strong among some of them and especially so if they are drunk. East Belfast would he largely loyalist/unionist. Picture someone like Johnny Adair and his family and friends on holidays. You wouldn't dream of interacting with him. Unfortunately there are many still like that up there.

Jayop · 12-07-2017 12:31PM

Patww79 wrote: »

A huge amount of them dislike the Irish as much as unionists do.

You really do talk an amazing amount of crap.

Jayop · 12-07-2017 12:33PM

Another thread gone completely off topic by the whataboutery and crap posting of the Unionist cheerleaders. Never ceases to amaze me how this is allowed every time.

end of the road · 12-07-2017 12:35PM

seamus wrote: »

The other 49% didn't come from Britain. Northern Ireland is their homeland. Why should they be forced out? Isn't that exactly what happened during the plantations? How does repeating the past make the future better?

they aren't being forced out. they can stay in northern ireland if they like and remain irish like they are currently, but they will be under irish rule instead of british rule.

seamus wrote: »

Nationalism is also a political stance. I think you're understating what unionism is tbh. Many if not most unionists identify as British. Telling them they're no longer British and are now Irish is as horrifying to them as if I told you that you were no longer Irish and are now British.

not at all. they aren't british but irish currently so they would only be told what they are. they never were british and never will be.

seamus wrote: »

It's an attack on their core identity.

no it's not.

ohnonotgmail · 12-07-2017 12:37PM

end of the road wrote: »

they aren't being forced out. they can stay in northern ireland if they like and remain irish like they are currently, but they will be under irish rule instead of british rule.

not at all. they aren't british but irish currently so they would only be told what they are. they never were british and never will be.

no it's not.

who do you think you are that you think you can tell them what their identity is?

The Backwards Man · 12-07-2017 12:41PM

red ears wrote: »

Sounds like you were chatting away to anyone you met with an Irish accent which is a little naive, particularly with northern people. As you say the hatred can be strong among some of them and especially so if they are drunk. East Belfast would he largely loyalist/unionist. Picture someone like Johnny Adair and his family and friends on holidays. You wouldn't dream of interacting with him. Unfortunately there are many still like that up there.

There's a fair chance Johnny Adair would get more vitriol from a crowd from East Belfast than some random freestater! :P

Jayop · 12-07-2017 12:45PM

red ears wrote: »

Sounds like you were chatting away to anyone you met with an Irish accent which is a little naive, particularly with northern people. As you say the hatred can be strong among some of them and especially so if they are drunk. East Belfast would he largely loyalist/unionist. Picture someone like Johnny Adair and his family and friends on holidays. You wouldn't dream of interacting with him. Unfortunately there are many still like that up there.

Rubbish. There's plenty of assholes from east Belfast but to tell a poster he was naive for talking to someone because they have a northern accent is beyond ridiculous.

SEPT 23 1989 · 12-07-2017 12:47PM

so the only problems were in relation to the fire brigade being busy

they have come a long way

The Backwards Man · 12-07-2017 12:49PM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

so the only problems were in relation to the fire brigade being busy

they have come a long way

There's no problems because everybody else has come a long way to get out of the road of the silly bastards.

To Donegal, mostly.

FrancieBrady · 12-07-2017 12:50PM

seamus wrote: »

Nationalism is also a political stance. I think you're understating what unionism is tbh. Many if not most unionists identify as British. Telling them they're no longer British and are now Irish is as horrifying to them as if I told you that you were no longer Irish and are now British.

It's an attack on their core identity.

I said that nationalism was a political stance and it is in a constant state of flux.
Nationalists were by and large happy enough to see if the GFA would deliver on rights and unity.
We can see where that has gone if we look to the elections recently and the fact that they trenchantly will no longer co-govern with the DUP.
Nationalism is frustrated by lack of progress and have voted accordingly.

Unionism is subject to exactly the same flux. Once the UUP were dominant and now it is the fearful, fundamentalist, last ditch DUP.

It will change again if it is demonstrated that intolerance and bigotry is unlawful and wrong. And if rights are delivered to all.
Brexit will also change Unionism. The very land will be up for grabs in the economic fallout - if you think for one minute that the norths farmers will allow that to happen then you don't understand the north. There will be a complete turn away from those advocating Brexit and consequently allegiance to Westminster.

end of the road · 12-07-2017 12:52PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Yes but they will have to answer to the government in dublin. not sure they would be too keen on that.

well that's just tough.

seamus wrote: »

And the Sinn Fein "types" are Irish citizens now and their descendents if they choose. So why do they want a United Ireland at all?

Have a think about that and you might realise why unionists wouldn't want a UI, regardless of what citizenship they get to keep.

they want a ui because that was what was supposed to happen. it would have happened had the traitors not sold out under the threat of violence. the unionists in northern ireland are irish, so a ui would simply be returning them to the rule of their country of origine.

seamus wrote: »

See my post above. Republicans are Irish in the UK. So why do they want a UI? The same reason why unionists wouldn't accept being British in a UI.

no they are irish under uk rule, but in ireland. northern ireland is only under uk rule (in fact, it's only partially uk ruled but fully uk subsidized)

Ce he sin wrote: »

And suppose they want to stay just where they are and not live in Ireland. Suppose for example that those in Unionist majority areas decide by way of vote they want to form their own mini state and rejoin the UK. How would you react to that democratic decision? Ethnic cleansing?

we can simply close the border to it and help any nationalists living in that new minny state to leave if they wish. britain won't care as it wants nothing to do with northern ireland anyway.

OldMrBrennan83 · 12-07-2017 12:53PM

This post has been deleted.

end of the road · 12-07-2017 12:57PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

who do you think you are that you think you can tell them what their identity is?

someone giving the facts. their identity is irish. born in ireland, irish. the fact they are partially ruled but fully subsidized by the uk tax payer, who don't recognise them as being british because they aren't, doesn't change that reality.

red ears · 12-07-2017 12:58PM

Jayop wrote: »

Rubbish. There's plenty of assholes from east Belfast but to tell a poster he was naive for talking to someone because they have a northern accent is beyond ridiculous.

Doing so drunk in a bar can often lead to trouble. I stand over that advice.

The Backwards Man · 12-07-2017 01:00PM

Patww79 wrote: »

Even your constant use of 'free staters' and 'the south' shows a complete lack of respect to the Irish. For a lot of you that lack of respect has edged into a strong dislike. When you're starting at a base of offensive then it's not that big a step.

I was born and bred in the free state, or the south if you like, I'm as Irish as you are. It's a turn of phrase, and a very innocuous one at that. It says a lot more about the one taking offense than the one using it.

OldMrBrennan83 · 12-07-2017 01:03PM

This post has been deleted.

The Backwards Man · 12-07-2017 01:04PM

red ears wrote: »

Doing so drunk in a bar can often lead to trouble. I stand over that advice.

Is there anything that doesn't have the chance of getting you into trouble that you would do drunk in a bar?

Rhyme · 12-07-2017 01:05PM

Attach speakers to heavy-duty drone, play recordings of vuvuzelas over this bullshit.

ohnonotgmail · 12-07-2017 01:07PM

end of the road wrote: »

someone giving the facts. their identity is irish. born in ireland, irish. the fact they are partially ruled but fully subsidized by the uk tax payer, who don't recognise them as being british because they aren't, doesn't change that reality.

you mean born in the UK surely? You seem very keen to stop a large group of people from determining their own future. how very intolerant of you.

The Backwards Man · 12-07-2017 01:08PM

Patww79 wrote: »

This is Ireland. The south of Ireland is Munster, Wexford at a push. If they've no respect for the country they claim to want to be part of, then it's further reasoning for the status quo.

The North is south of where I live, and it's a long way to Wexford.

There seems to be a lack of respect here alright, but it's coming from your direction.

FrancieBrady · 12-07-2017 01:08PM

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Do you have the same problem with those who refer to North America and South America? :rolleyes:

The Backwards Man · 12-07-2017 01:10PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Do you have the same problem with those who refer to North America and South America? :rolleyes:

Tierra Del Fuego will rise again!

So it's the 12th of July tomorrow. Will the North ever not be sectarian?

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