So it's the 12th of July tomorrow. Will the North ever not be sectarian?

steddyeddy

I was working in America recently. The DUP had just struck a deal with the Tories to support them in exchange for 1 billion pounds. In a developing economy this would be called a bribe. Anyway, the point is that this is when the world was introduced to the DUP. People in America were shocked by the DUP and coverage of the run up to the 12th of July. When I came back to England most people and coverage of the DUP was negative. We don't seem as shocked by it anymore and that's a bad thing.

I think it's easy to forget that burning bonfires with the Irish flag and effigies of other communities, sectarian bands marching down areas filled with people they hate and general bigotry isn't normal.

What will it take to stop all this sectarianism?

ToddyDoody

But they have to do it to protect their culture, or so they say.

steddyeddy

ToddyDoody wrote: »

But they have to do it to protect their culture, or so they say.

So over in the states I was watching Larry King and George Galloway comes on talking about the DUP. He describes them as a sort of less extreme Klu Klux Klan. He wasn't far off TBH.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fO8yVHTB1wE

seamus

steddyeddy wrote: »

What will it take to stop all this sectarianism?

Independence.

Eject them from the UK, refuse requests to accede to the Republic. Cut them loose and let them sort it out. Make Northern Ireland an independent state.

Give everyone the right to emigrate to and live in either ROI or the UK. Whoever's left behind can make of it what they will.

With unionism and nationalism both taken off the table, they'll have no choice but to realise how pointless and petty their ideologies are and improve their lot together.

riffmongous

Have they realised the difference between Ireland and the Ivory Coast yet?

RayM

Never.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_XuQTWZBH0

FrancieBrady

seamus wrote: »

Independence.

Eject them from the UK, refuse requests to accede to the Republic. Cut them loose and let them sort it out. Make Northern Ireland an independent state.

Give everyone the right to emigrate to and live in either ROI or the UK. Whoever's left behind can make of it what they will.

With unionism and nationalism both taken off the table, they'll have no choice but to realise how pointless and petty their ideologies are and improve their lot together.

Partitionist laziness never worked before and will not work now or into the future.
This is everyone on the island's problem.

Are Am Eye

Post number 8 is my traditional position in this thread. And I
will not be moved.

The Backwards Man

Great day for burning carpets

Are Am Eye

With pay by weight disposal coming in we may start celebrating king billy in the local park here.

FrancieBrady

Are Am Eye wrote: »

Post number 8 is my traditional position in this thread. And I
will not be moved.

That's the thing.
After wrecking the place, shouting Never Never Never, maybe kill a few innocents and threatening Armageddon, you will just get on with it and do the pragmatic thing and be moved.
Unionism/Loyalism in a nutshell.
If they had made a stand the whole thing would be over.

gooch2k9

The boys over the road have lit theirs already. Is that usual or can they just not read the time?

riffmongous

The loss of EU funding due to Brexit will hit reconciliation hard, not only as a lot of cross community projects will lose funding but also as there will now be increased competition for whatever funding is left.

If you are a cynic and a republican party well now is the time to start sending money north

KungPao

The King Billy Bigots make impressive bonfires in fairness.

Junkyard Tom

seamus wrote: »

unionism and nationalism

False equivalence. Nationalists haven't created a summer-long celebrated culture around being anti-Protestant/Unionist/British.

The north needs to be better regulated and policed. A simple law requiring planning permission for flags to placed on public property, or kerbstone painting, would push outward expressions of sectarianism, paramilitarism, territory marking, into controlled ghettos where it could be ignored by the wider population.


There should also be a concerted move toward secular schools with a neutral curriculum.

Failing that just get the +50% vote for unification and pull the plaster off quickly.

diomed

I'm just sad we don't have a semi-state body that manufactures pallets.

Barthhedf1

Nowadays I think we all know that this is just an excuse for a session

andekwarhola

When I lived in Belfast, albeit when the eve of the 12th tended to be worse, we lived right beside an area with a lot of 12th celebrations and kinda perversely enjoyed the night.

Any of us that didn't go away just stocked up on drink and food and all (quietly) partied the night in our house while the city shut down around us.

riffmongous

Barthhedf1 wrote: »

Nowadays I think we all know that this is just an excuse for a session

Why can't they just get a bag of cans and go sit in a ditch like the rest of us?

Are Am Eye

I wonder if the catholics could reschedule their Halloween to the 12th it could help unify the situation. The only problem might be the solo protestant Halloween in October which could spill over into triumphalism and tribal bigotry. But one problem at a time.

andekwarhola

gooch2k9 wrote: »

The boys over the road have lit theirs already. Is that usual or can they just not read the time?

Premature Conflagration?

Barthhedf1

Does anyone know if it's ok for Irish people to join in?

Sofiztikated

Barthhedf1 wrote: »

Does anyone know if it's ok for Irish people to join in?

There'll be Irish Orangemen and bands, so yeah, it's "ok."

gooch2k9

Barthhedf1 wrote: »

Does anyone know if it's ok for Irish people to join in?

Sure isn't everyone there Irish!

Barthhedf1

Sofiztikated wrote: »

There'll be Irish Orangemen and bands, so yeah, it's "ok."

Sorry I meant catholics or southerners we are all Irish.

flutered

steddyeddy wrote: »

I was working in America recently. The DUP had just struck a deal with the Tories to support them in exchange for 1 billion pounds. In a developing economy this would be called a bribe. Anyway, the point is that this is when the world was introduced to the DUP. People in America were shocked by the DUP and coverage of the run up to the 12th of July. When I came back to England most people and coverage of the DUP was negative. We don't seem as shocked by it anymore and that's a bad thing.

I think it's easy to forget that burning bonfires with the Irish flag and effigies of other communities, sectarian bands marching down areas filled with people they hate and general bigotry isn't normal.

What will it take to stop all this sectarianism?

as the song goes until the 12th of never and thats a long long time

Atlantic Dawn

In any other country in the civilised world would the police and state authorities stand by and facilitate bonfires right beside houses erected over days.

Jayop

This is what passes for Culture.




Absolute racist bigoted scum.

gooch2k9

Jayop wrote: »

This is what passes for Culture.

..snip...
Absolute racist bigoted scum.

And a Martin McGuinness coffin on the one in Castlereagh.

Kultuur.

Barthhedf1

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

In any other country in the civilised world would the police and state authorities stand by and facilitate bonfires right beside houses erected over days.

The English like it too, how they stole our land and after nearly a hundred years of peaceful and violent attempts to get it back we don't even want it anymore.

Sofiztikated

Barthhedf1 wrote: »

Sorry I meant catholics or southerners we are all Irish.

There's bands from the Republic. There's Orangemen from the Republic. The Rossnowlagh parade was on Saturday past.

Jayop

gooch2k9 wrote: »

And a Martin McGuinness coffin on the one in Castlereagh.

Kultuur.

Didn't hear that. The SF stuff and the Irish flags don't bother me really anymore. I'm just used to it. However the Racist abuse directed to a lad because he plays for Celtic is disgusting.

Are Am Eye

Barthhedf1 wrote: »

Sorry I meant catholics or southerners we are all Irish.

southerners ? = Fenians to one side, Free Staters to the other.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Barthhedf1

[qudote="Are Am Eye;104056274"]southerners ? = Fenians to one side, Free Staters to the other.[/quote]

What exactly is a free stater? Is it someone who believes the 6 counties belong to the Queen?

Richard Hillman

Getting rid of a few football teams would most certainly help.

emo72

ah let them have their fires, its not as if they're burning people, beyond caring about their shennanigans. eventually they'll stop when they see they're not getting a reaction.

Jayop

emo72 wrote: »

ah let them have their fires, its not as if they're burning people, beyond caring about their shennanigans. eventually they'll stop when they see they're not getting a reaction.

People's houses are damaged every year, property is damaged every year.

Are Am Eye

Barthhedf1 wrote: »

[qudote="Are Am Eye;104056274"]southerners ? = Fenians to one side, Free Staters to the other.

What exactly is a free stater? Is it someone who believes the 6 counties belong to the Queen?[/QUOTE]

A loaded term used by republicans to describe those who negotiated with Britain and accepted the Free State settlement and perhaps abandoned the north and also the 'true ideals of the republic'. Expanded out to describe all 26 county people depending on exactly how bitter exponent is feeling that day.

emo72

Jayop wrote: »

People's houses are damaged every year, property is damaged every year.

they build them on loyalist estates. are they damaging their own houses?

FrancieBrady

Let them at it. They seem particularly nasty this year.
Loyalism shooting itself in the foot (again) just when the real British are taking notice of them.

If they are looking to Britain for salvation from a UI, they will have to look very hard.

Richard Hillman

emo72 wrote: »

they build them on loyalist estates. are they damaging their own houses?

They put them up close to houses and if the person complains they are told to **** off or worse.

These estates are run by a small percentage of vermin that get to call the shots for everyone because they are the most violent.

RobbingBandit

You'd make a killing selling Ivory Coast flags up there

Jayop

emo72 wrote: »

they build them on loyalist estates. are they damaging their own houses?

They're damaging houses belonging to people who don't want the bonfires a few yards from their houses but are afraid to say anything due to the type pf people whoa re involved in building them. These people are innocent and are being hurt regardless of whether they are catholic or protestant.

They also cause massive damage to public roads every year that has to be paid for from the public purse.

Barthhedf1

Are Am Eye wrote: »

What exactly is a free stater? Is it someone who believes the 6 counties belong to the Queen?

A loaded term used by republicans to describe those who negotiated with Britain and accepted the Free State settlement and perhaps abandoned the north and also the 'true ideals of the republic'. Expanded out to describe all 26 county people depending on exactly how bitter exponent is feeling that day.[/quote]

So basically Fine Gael?

Jayop

Are Am Eye wrote: »

A loaded term used by republicans to describe those who negotiated with Britain and accepted the Free State settlement and perhaps abandoned the north and also the 'true ideals of the republic'. Expanded out to describe all 26 county people depending on exactly how bitter exponent is feeling that day.

I use the term Free State all the time in normal speech and honestly it's not intended to be derogatory at all. It was how the South was referred to when I was growing up and I wasn't raised in a republican house at all.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

steddyeddy

In terms of offence, the term "free stater" will pale in comparison to unionists comparing a black footballer to a monkey.

emo72

Jayop wrote: »

They're damaging houses belonging to people who don't want the bonfires a few yards from their houses but are afraid to say anything due to the type pf people whoa re involved in building them. These people are innocent and are being hurt regardless of whether they are catholic or protestant.

They also cause massive damage to public roads every year that has to be paid for from the public purse.

i know brah, its total crap. its not going to stop though is it? i wish the fire brigade would just go in and pull them down. but they wont. they thread title asks the question "will the north ever not be sectarian?" the answer is no unless people stop paying attention to their crap. they'll only offend if they get a reaction.

mind you growing up in the troubles i never thought id see an end to them, yet here we are. to me its a miracle i thought was impossible. them having their fires, its just the dying "embers" of a struggle that they are having with themselves. they only have themselves to fight with. everyone else is just getting on with improving their lives.

andekwarhola

emo72 wrote: »

they build them on loyalist estates. are they damaging their own houses?

Most of the people on those estates are as loyalist as the majority of people are nationalists on others.

That is, too terrified to say otherwise.

AnneFrank

The answer to this was said at a graveside many moons ago, "Ireland unfree, shall never be at peace"