Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

PaulKK wrote: »

I'd agree with the loss of Martin Fogarty. The team just doesn't seem to have the same spirit/drive since he left.

I think the most concerning thing for me all year is that we have a major problem in the forwards. All year none are able to win any ball or convert chances easily.

Gone are the days of lads catching balls on the halfway line and blasting them over with ease.

Just watching the Sunday game here again and we went in to the second half with 6 scores and I'd say only 2 of those were from play. Not good enough at this level unfortunately.

Cody seems to have lost the plot too. Playing injured players. Starting backs in the forwards. Brought all the sub's and non named panel members out training today and ran the sh1te out of them. Crazy stuff.

Martin Fogarty was around with the greatest team ever, he knew when to leave, his loss is pale in significance to all the players that departed over the last 5 years.

As i stated way back the leaders have not stepped up, Paul Murphy should be one of the main men leading this team, i seen a photo of him in front of the Kilkenny people this week parading around with a horse in Nowlan Park, would he not be more suited to keep his head down on concentrate on trying to get a good performance. He has been a disgrace towards the end of last year and this year. His basic skills of the game leaves a lot to be desired, average club hurlers have way more skill.

Conor Fogarty the same, missing again, poor aerial ability and mobility, very robotic in his hurling. These 2 lads are lucky Kilkenny have no bench.

Is there any better backs in the county than the backs the weekend, fair play to Buckley got a few blocks in and looked the part, the others are just barely surviving, and they played against 5 forwards.

Kilkenny have maybe 4 hurlers who have the required skill levels to play at the highest level. TJ, Richie, Buckley, Kevin Kelly, Padraig Walsh, Mick Fennelly.

Some of the others standard is at Christy Ring level, Paul Murphy, Fogarty, O Shea, Deegan, Wally Walsh, Jonjo Farrell, Colin Fennelly, Blanchfield.

Has to be time to bring in lads like Billy Ryan & John Walsh, Luke Scanlon, skillful players, need these lads going forward and have your 2 r 3 lads like Wally & Colin Fennelly maybe Deegan to win hard ball around them

Brendan Cummins article this morning.
Essentially hitting the nail on the head so to speak.

"For the first time, Cody is now working with players who are not of the required standard.

That's a problem, coupled with him never being viewed as a tactical genius.

What he had in the past were men on the pitch to sort out any issues that arose but he now finds himself having to devise a system of play to suit the players at his disposal.

Kilkenny have always prided them on the simplicity of their approach - hand out the 15 jerseys, tell the lads to win their individual battles, and we'll see you at half-time.

Overall, Kilkenny have no apparent plan, their style of play is one-dimensional and contributing to them playing without confidence. This is why they're headed for the back door."

Village87 wrote: »

Martin Fogarty was around with the greatest team ever, he knew when to leave, his loss is pale in significance to all the players that departed over the last 5 years.

As i stated way back the leaders have not stepped up, Paul Murphy should be one of the main men leading this team, i seen a photo of him in front of the Kilkenny people this week parading around with a horse in Nowlan Park, would he not be more suited to keep his head down on concentrate on trying to get a good performance. He has been a disgrace towards the end of last year and this year. His basic skills of the game leaves a lot to be desired, average club hurlers have way more skill.

Conor Fogarty the same, missing again, poor aerial ability and mobility, very robotic in his hurling. These 2 lads are lucky Kilkenny have no bench.

Is there any better backs in the county than the backs the weekend, fair play to Buckley got a few blocks in and looked the part, the others are just barely surviving, and they played against 5 forwards.

Kilkenny have maybe 4 hurlers who have the required skill levels to play at the highest level. TJ, Richie, Buckley, Kevin Kelly, Padraig Walsh, Mick Fennelly.

Some of the others standard is at Christy Ring level, Paul Murphy, Fogarty, O Shea, Deegan, Wally Walsh, Jonjo Farrell, Colin Fennelly, Blanchfield.

Has to be time to bring in lads like Billy Ryan & John Walsh, Luke Scanlon, skillful players, need these lads going forward and have your 2 r 3 lads like Wally & Colin Fennelly maybe Deegan to win hard ball around them

You say 4 players have the skill to play at the highest level and then you go on to name 6 players, you might want to look at your own standards.

There have been some totally and utterly disgrace comments here.

Calling for people to abuse players around town and saying that All-Ireland winners like Fogary, Murphy & Fennelly, etc are only good enough to play for the likes of Wicklow, Mayo, Antrim is an absolute joke.

The people who made those comments should feel embarrassed. Cringeworthy.

Rasputin11 wrote: »

Why was Paul Murphy walking around Nowlan Park with a horse? I'll presume it's more than likely to do with some fund raising activity for Kilkenny Gaa.

Prob advertising the Gowran Races. The supporters club usually have a fundraiser at one of the meetings for the players.

Paul has had a huge dip in form from the summer last year, continuing on this season. BUT you have to remember he was in the best full back line for years with JJ and Jackie now the players are being chopped and changed every game. He hasn't got used to playing with a regular full back line. It's much easier play when you know the players around you and you automatically know their moves/ability etc...

v3ttel wrote: »

There have been some totally and utterly disgrace comments here.

Calling for people to abuse players around town and saying that All-Ireland winners like Fogary, Murphy & Fennelly, etc are only good enough to play for the likes of Wicklow, Mayo, Antrim is an absolute joke.

The people who made those comments should feel embarrassed. Cringeworthy.

I seen the highlights of the christy Ring final. My point is that the Skill level of these players is on par with what i seen in the Christy Ring final. SKILL LEVEL ONLY, fitness, aggression, athleticism is obviously of Senior inter county level, im just going on basic skill level like striking and first touch. Paul Murphy misses or fumbles every second ball going is his direction lately, Jackie would never let this happen, first touch always 100%. Just my opinion..

Village87 wrote: »

Martin Fogarty was around with the greatest team ever, he knew when to leave, his loss is pale in significance to all the players that departed over the last 5 years.

As i stated way back the leaders have not stepped up, Paul Murphy should be one of the main men leading this team, i seen a photo of him in front of the Kilkenny people this week parading around with a horse in Nowlan Park, would he not be more suited to keep his head down on concentrate on trying to get a good performance. He has been a disgrace towards the end of last year and this year. His basic skills of the game leaves a lot to be desired, average club hurlers have way more skill.

Conor Fogarty the same, missing again, poor aerial ability and mobility, very robotic in his hurling. These 2 lads are lucky Kilkenny have no bench.

Is there any better backs in the county than the backs the weekend, fair play to Buckley got a few blocks in and looked the part, the others are just barely surviving, and they played against 5 forwards.

Kilkenny have maybe 4 hurlers who have the required skill levels to play at the highest level. TJ, Richie, Buckley, Kevin Kelly, Padraig Walsh, Mick Fennelly.

Some of the others standard is at Christy Ring level, Paul Murphy, Fogarty, O Shea, Deegan, Wally Walsh, Jonjo Farrell, Colin Fennelly, Blanchfield.

Has to be time to bring in lads like Billy Ryan & John Walsh, Luke Scanlon, skillful players, need these lads going forward and have your 2 r 3 lads like Wally & Colin Fennelly maybe Deegan to win hard ball around them

The best boards Gaa post iv read in a long while. Keep it up

Village87 wrote: »

Take away the TJ, Richie, Padraig Walsh, Mick Fennelly, and Cillian Buckley and Carlow would give them a good rattle. Funny cause its bloody true

True and put Eoin Murphy on that list.

Village87 wrote: »

Gary Gurny wrote: »

The best boards Gaa post iv read in a long while. Keep it up

Take away the TJ, Richie, Padraig Walsh, Mick Fennelly, and Cillian Buckley and Carlow would give them a good rattle. Funny cause its bloody true

So you think Kilkenny having in your view a weak panel is funny and you used the word "them" rather than "us", curious as to what village you are actually from.

As a long-suffering Wexford supporter, I can't believe how dismissive some of ye are about some of the players.
A few things made the difference on Saturday. Firstly, don't underestimate home advantage. Not just the crowd, but judging the pitch dimensions and especially the wind.
Kilkenny have had a second home in Croke Park for years, conditions were really tricky on Saturday.
I was in Nowlan park in 2005 when Kilkenny demolished us in a League game. They put 30 points on us, putting us back in our place after the smash and grab the previous year. We brought Red Barry on at half-time, he was on his way home from the football league semi-final, where we had just beaten Tyrone. I remember everyone saying Kilkenny would never have to make a lad play twice the one day. It's taken a decade to fully wash that game out of our system
The parallel? On Saturday, Padraig Walsh could't warm up properly, he was obviously unfit. Apart from Shefflin in the 2007 final, I don't ever remember Cody picking an unfit player.
From the outside, what no-one can understand is how dominant college and minor Kilkenny teams vanish by u-21. Have young lads been as intimidated by the greatest team of all time as the rest of us were? Did they slacken off at 19/20 with a couple of medals in their pockets?
Saturday seemed the reverse of so many games between our counties- ye hurling well early but missing chances, getting the goals but never building on to them, us hurling away and tapping over points.
I was so glad to see Aylward taken off- he might have cut loose if he had got one score. I'm not trolling, btw, unfortunately there is no parallel Wexford hurling forum. Often browse here, never felt like I had nay place being involved.
Worse teams than this Kilkenny group have won All-Irelands, but Galway are in the box-seat now, and Waterford haven't shown their hand at all. As for Wexford, it's just good to be in the conversation, but every game is a test of progress.

Wendell Gee wrote: »

there is no parallel Wexford hurling forum.

We have a home just nobody seems to use it very often so we end up in everybody else's threads

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057269210/24
Also
http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057691160/3/#post103774312

While what Village87 is saying may be slightly hyperbolic, the core of his point stands in my opinion. The basic skill levels of the team leave a bit to be desired, particularly compared to what we had. Now obviously we were blessed with what was probably the most talented group of hurlers of all time. But what we have now is lower than the level I would have expected.

Some players are limited enough in basic skills, and I include Colin in that. Great athleticism, great aggression in going for a goal, but could he score a point from 50 yards on his left side? I'm not sure. Similarly, Wally needs at least a few yards of space to score. If he's under pressure he's unlikely to score. Paul Murphy has lost his touch it seems, fumbles the ball and pick ups far more often than a player of his stature should.

We in Kilkenny often ridiculed teams for trying to keep line ups a secret, for playing players in bizarre positions, playing injured players. But we've been guilt of all three in the past couple of years. We criticised teams for playing defensively yet we had the majority of players in our own half for a lot of the game.

In my opinion we're limited to two elite players, Reid and Hogan. Not many teams have much more than that, I'd go as far to say most teams don't have anyone at their level. But they have miles on the clock, they are carrying the team for a couple of seasons now. When they get shut out, we have no answer.

We have Eoin Murphy who is the best keeper in the country, but the keeper doesn't influence the game enough for him to be someone who could win is some trophies.

We have Buckley, Padraig, Fogarty and a couple more who are very good, but they aren't being given settled positions, so it's very hard for them to pick up some form.

We have Colin and Wally, who are physically very good, and they would compliment some more skilful players along with them if we had them. But we don't, and we have to rely on them to make the forward line tick. Which they're too limited to do.

The younger players can't be faulted for effort and work rate which I think is very good. But unlike most Kilkenny players who come into the senior team, they are more used to losing than winning. They're confidence levels are below what we are used to in Kilkenny players.

I would be pessimistic about the rest of the season. I still think we could beat anyone on our day. But I can't see us string together more than a couple of wins.