Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

Dionysis

Dionysis wrote: »

Buckley and Fennelly played well, some others played average, the rest were fcuking useless. AND they should be let know it around the county and it the streets, They were a disgrace.

Blanchfield - 14/18 pounds over weight, and doesn't deserve a place on the panel not to mind a the team.
Lester - experienced older head, went missing yesterday when we needed him.
Wally - needs to grow some balls. Of course Wexford were going to give him some off the ball, but he's 6'4" put yourself about for fcuk sake.
Aylward - needs to play a team game and learn to be cuter off the ball. But at least he showed some fight.
Rochie Hogan - if your fit enough to play , play in the forwards and deliver. Gone missing too many times, living off a player of the year from a number of years ago for too long.
TJ - start ducking barking at players around you. Like Shefflin did to you.
Deegan - will never mark a man no matter what, he's surely a nice lad but he's awareness and management of midfield will never be good enough for intervounty.
Lennon and O'Shea - Jesus wept, no fight, no drive, no command of their position, cannot run, no awareness of what's going on around them. And just will not track there man back.
P Murphy is having a mare of a season.

The backs in general let wexford saunter through them time and again. Wexfords goal was a laugh and the keeper was poor for it too. Our backs are beat for the ball in the air every time as are our forwards.

KK would be. Enter off in the long run getting beat the next day out. The older lads have been to 3 all- irelands in a row, and they will not win this one. So let them go out early and have a rest. The get Cody to focus on the U-21s, and drive them.

Our current malaise, I'm saying on here and previous forums is coming for years - poor underage intercounty managers, very poor intercounty U21 management for years and no north, south and maybe mid divisional sides for minors from junior and intermediate clubs who are cast to the wind after minor. Need to bring in development squads from 19 - 24yrs which is what these divisional sides would be. Cody got underage lads this year who are physically and mentally years off playing senior intercounty, and he can't turn them around as quick as he needs them.

The young lads either deliver like lads of the same age are doing in Tipp, WTerford, Clare and Wexford or they leave the intercounty panel. Far too many journey men on that panel. No fcuking drive/fight in them.

I can understand your frustration but jesus these are amateur athletes at the end of the day. Calling them a disgrace is bang out of order. They are not on thousands a week like some of the fraudsters plying their trade across the irish sea.

Kilkenny are going through a dip of talent after having a decade and a half of non stop glory and for god sake you only lost the game by 1 score....1 score after making a great comeback.

There is a few good points in your post though. Kilkenny were sweeping all before them in the underage grades but other counties such as ourselves, Waterford, Galway, Clare in particular have caught up in terms of aggression and physicality. Kilkenny dont have that real aggressive type of player on the panel at present. Without singling out any single player i must say i did find it unusual that Shane Prendergast was seemingly sharing a joke with John Mcgrath during last years final. I just could not imagine Tommy, Jackie Tyrell or JJ Delaney doing likewise. Fact is you have lost a golden generation of players through retirement/injury and in particular, Shefflin, Tyrell, JJ, Tommy, Richie Power, Eoin Larkin, Michael Rice, Eddie Brennan.....you just dont replace those guys around the next corner.

JJs Left Hand

Nice to see lads taking the team losing so well that they're advocating abusing people on the street. Classy.

Charlie69

I know we've lost some of the best hurlers to ever play the game to retirement but in my opinion Martin Fogarty has been a huge loss also, very highly thought of by the players and unlike Brian was a great man manager and motivator.. He was also very astute tactically and apparently was the one person on the line that Cody would actually listen to.

Dionysis

In all my years of watching KK, yesterday's game was the first time I ever saw KK under pressure to name a squad in advance of the game, and see a KK team lay down all over the park. A lot of volunteers time and money has gone into these lads, and in return what's asked is an honest effort to do their best. Last night for those of us who actually support the team from up close and go to the games, it was the most obvious example of players not bothered performing the basics they learned as 8-10 year olds. Again, for those who were at the game, they will have noticed two kids teams playing at half time, show more understanding, skills and commitment, than that showed by the KK team in the senior game.

Cody has many faults as do we all, but the players seriously left him down last night.

brookville

Nickindublin wrote: »

As Faugheen has just said KK problem is 2-9. Cody does not know who to play where and has been switching them all year trying to find a solution and he has failed. It's time to go back to basics and put your best players in their best positions. Particularly the Half Back line. He then has to settle on FB and CB. The only good thing out of yesterday's game was that he didn't play Mick. Hopefully he will be back the next day. All starters should be 100% fit. Modern day hurling requires that.

Firstly congrats to wexford the best team won and in fairness our lads fought it out to the very end and could of got a late goal to draw it.Bolger should of turned to his left an goaled his chance

While I agree we'll have to go back to basics and some of the defending was criminal yesterday but our forwards yesterday minus colin just weren't good enough and hasn't being during the league
Gers touch wasn't in and bolger tried hard but showed his inexperience with his goal chance
It's a very very long road now win 4 matches to get to the final I don't fancy our chances tbh

Dionysis

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I can understand your frustration but jesus these are amateur athletes at the end of the day. Calling them a disgrace is bang out of order. They are not on thousands a week like some of the fraudsters plying their trade across the irish sea.

Kilkenny are going through a dip of talent after having a decade and a half of non stop glory and for god sake you only lost the game by 1 score....1 score after making a great comeback.

There is a few good points in your post though. Kilkenny were sweeping all before them in the underage grades but other counties such as ourselves, Waterford, Galway, Clare in particular have caught up in terms of aggression and physicality. Kilkenny dont have that real aggressive type of player on the panel at present. Without singling out any single player i must say i did find it unusual that Shane Prendergast was seemingly sharing a joke with John Mcgrath during last years final. I just could not imagine Tommy, Jackie Tyrell or JJ Delaney doing likewise. Fact is you have lost a golden generation of players through retirement/injury and in particular, Shefflin, Tyrell, JJ, Tommy, Richie Power, Eoin Larkin, Michael Rice, Eddie Brennan.....you just dont replace those guys around the next corner.

I don't expect another team of a life time, but either Wexford have just found s team of a life time, or they used the talent at their disposal that never won an underage title, and gave KK a trimming, for the second time in 10+ weeks.

randd1

My two cents worth..

While the players have to some flak for this performance, the root of this performance for me was the management. Tactically, in terms of preparation, fitness and player position, it's been a shambles all year.

Playing unfit men is just plain stupid in this day and age, and its not the first time Cody has done it, there's no way Padraig Walsh should have started. And on fitness, how are we so slow? We look big and cumbersome, like we've spent all winter in the gym. The lack of physical fitness is a big worry, we dont look like we have any type of real pace or power in the side to close down the space or win the dirty ball.

They look like a poorly prepared side. What struck me most was the poor first touch, and complete lack of basics in the game. The players had no idea what they were at, or how they were meant to play, it was all very haphazard, panic in the moment type stuff. And lads being played out of positions they've won All-Stars in, move around with no notion of what's required.

On the players, some would want to have a real look at themselves and their attitude. Richie Hogan, Walter Walsh and Paul Murphy were once again miles off the pace and looked disinterested, the lack of throwing themselves into things was obvious from the off. The less said the better, but special mention to Buckley, TJ and Fennelly who drove at Wexford and fought tooth and nail for everything from start to finish.

And another thing too. Idle speculation is pointless, but I'll play devil's advocate here. Throughout the league, and again yesterday, the players overall have played with a lack of belief, drive and fire in the belly, the Tipp game apart. And the Tipp game apart, our entire gameplan for getting scores is hail Mary passes up front with an expectation the forward should win their own ball, there's been no creativity, invention or intelligence in the ball we give forward all year. The constant chopping and changing of the side has left them completely confused as to what they're meant to be doing, which is why we've looked disjointed and all over the place this year. Cody doesn't know his first 15, doesn't know where to play lads to get the best out of them, and hasn't tried any attacking tactic beyond win high ball and smash through the opposition, which is simply playing into the oppositions hands these days.

The majority of this squad were on the brink of 3 in a row last, playing varied hurling with a settled team. Its amazing how much poorer, slower, lacking in quality, drive, direction, belief and the basics of the game they've regressed in 9 months. For me, Cody has lost the plot, the players have lost faith and its pride in the jersey and respect for Cody's achievements that we're getting anything out of them.

There is a very real element that the high quality players just aren't there, but even if they're not, a top manager would get the best out of them or at least have them hurling with some sense of purpose and gameplan beyond hit and hope.

Final note. We've played, league and championship, 7 games this year. We've lost 4, each time to a side who, on the day, played an extra man back. Cody doesnt know how to handle the sweeper, and that's three in a row that a Davy Fitz side has completely shut down Kilkenny with a sweeper too.

The big questions now for me is, is this management team capable of sorting this out? I genuinely have my doubts.

Dionysis

brookville wrote: »

Firstly congrats to wexford the best team won and in fairness our lads fought it out to the very end and could of got a late goal to draw it.Bolger should of turned to his left an goaled his chance

While I agree we'll have to go back to basics and some of the defending was criminal yesterday but our forwards yesterday minus colin just weren't good enough and hasn't being during the league
Gers touch wasn't in and bolger tried hard but showed his inexperience with his goal chance
It's a very very long road now win 4 matches to get to the final I don't fancy our chances tbh

Chris Bolger may have missed a chance or two but he was interested and showed drive. Couldn't fault him.
Aylward and Bolger have a drive about them at least. There are others there only making up the numbers. And if you were at the U21 game versus Dublin, you'd see that a number of these names didnt do it that night either.
John Donnelly Thomastown who was sitting with the panel should be tried.
Also, how is the best of the u-21s against Dublin Billy Ryan not on that panel.

Cornerback1

Where do we go from here?
I said before we needed to have plan for Murphy, Wexford's sweeper and we didn't. At this level now, we needed a plan and didn't and should have been beat by at least 10pts

Cornerback1

Dionysis wrote: »

Buckley and Fennelly played well, some others played average, the rest were fcuking useless. AND they should be let know it around the county and it the streets, They were a disgrace.

Blanchfield - 14/18 pounds over weight, and doesn't deserve a place on the panel not to mind a the team.
Lester - experienced older head, went missing yesterday when we needed him.
Wally - needs to grow some balls. Of course Wexford were going to give him some off the ball, but he's 6'4" put yourself about for fcuk sake.
Aylward - needs to play a team game and learn to be cuter off the ball. But at least he showed some fight.
Rochie Hogan - if your fit enough to play , play in the forwards and deliver. Gone missing too many times, living off a player of the year from a number of years ago for too long.
TJ - start ducking barking at players around you. Like Shefflin did to you.
Deegan - will never mark a man no matter what, he's surely a nice lad but he's awareness and management of midfield will never be good enough for intervounty.
Lennon and O'Shea - Jesus wept, no fight, no drive, no command of their position, cannot run, no awareness of what's going on around them. And just will not track there man back.
P Murphy is having a mare of a season.

The backs in general let wexford saunter through them time and again. Wexfords goal was a laugh and the keeper was poor for it too. Our backs are beat for the ball in the air every time as are our forwards.

KK would be. Enter off in the long run getting beat the next day out. The older lads have been to 3 all- irelands in a row, and they will not win this one. So let them go out early and have a rest. The get Cody to focus on the U-21s, and drive them.

Our current malaise, I'm saying on here and previous forums is coming for years - poor underage intercounty managers, very poor intercounty U21 management for years and no north, south and maybe mid divisional sides for minors from junior and intermediate clubs who are cast to the wind after minor. Need to bring in development squads from 19 - 24yrs which is what these divisional sides would be. Cody got underage lads this year who are physically and mentally years off playing senior intercounty, and he can't turn them around as quick as he needs them.

The young lads either deliver like lads of the same age are doing in Tipp, WTerford, Clare and Wexford or they leave the intercounty panel. Far too many journey men on that panel. No fcuking drive/fight in them.

Never stoop to giving out abuse to players on the street. You've lost it.

Go and lie down for an hour.

brookville

Dionysis wrote: »

Chris Bolger may have missed a chance or two but he was interested and showed drive. Couldn't fault him.
Aylward and Bolger have a drive about them at least. There are others there only making up the numbers. And if you were at the U21 game versus Dublin, you'd see that a number of these names didnt do it that night either.
John Donnelly Thomastown who was sitting with the panel should be tried.
Also, how is the best of the u-21s against Dublin Billy Ryan not on that panel.

I agree bout bolger and ger they'll attack at least,fierce disappointed with wally.Richie hogan has done little training the last few weeks with back trouble.

Topcat32

Cornerback1 wrote: »

Where do we go from here?
I said before we needed to have plan for Murphy, Wexford's sweeper and we didn't. At this level now, we needed a plan and didn't and should have been beat by at least 10pts

That is a difficult question, it really is an excercise in rescuing the season now, id bring Jason Cleere into the team at centre back, put Padraig and Cillian as the half backs, have a full back line of Paul Murphy, Joyce and Fogarty, hopefully get Mick fennelly in at midfield, maybe bring Bolger into forwards, at least he runs about a bit, wont win an all Ireland but should give most teams a good game.

jelutong

No hurler goes on the pitch with the intention of playing badly. Shame on anyone who abuses players on the street or on forums such as this. When I see Richie Hogan,one the finest hurlers I've ever seen being slagged off by one or two people here it makes me wonder. Eaten bread is soon forgotten and all that.

droppingball

Topcat32 wrote: »

That is a difficult question, it really is an excercise in rescuing the season now, id bring Jason Cleere into the team at centre back, put Padraig and Cillian as the half backs, have a full back line of Paul Murphy, Joyce and Fogarty, hopefully get Mick fennelly in at midfield, maybe bring Bolger into forwards, at least he runs about a bit, wont win an all Ireland but should give most teams a good game.

Exactly my thoughts, fogarty would add a tigerish corner back, and three hurlers to offer a spring board in half back line. Aylward fennelly and bolger would be promising inside. Liked how aylward got on ball because bllanchfield struggles to get on ball.

ttowncat

Anyone know when the qualifier draws will be ? And also what weekends would you expect the matches to be on?

unrealtime

We have a half back line of Walsh Joyce and Buckley. What is so wrong about that line? I'm missing something.

Brian017

ttowncat wrote: »

Anyone know when the qualifier draws will be ? And also what weekends would you expect the matches to be on?

I'm guessing Monday June 26th after the Laois/Carlow Prem. Round qualifier. The 1st Round games are down for Sat July 1st and the 2nd round a week later on the 8th

Hitchens

Dionysis wrote: »

Buckley and Fennelly played well, some others played average, the rest were fcuking useless. AND they should be let know it around the county and it the streets, They were a disgrace.

.

Classy :rolleyes:

Charlie69

unrealtime wrote: »

We have a half back line of Walsh Joyce and Buckley. What is so wrong about that line? I'm missing something.

Won two out of the last three All-Irelands with that half back line, I have no problem with changing it if it's to improve it... did we improve that line with the changes??. I know we had problems in other areas but robbing Peter to pay Paul has only resulted in weakening the team even further.

droppingball

That is a great half back line, but Joyce was solid last night and Buckley was great so I would go with Murphy Joyce fogarty, Walsh, Buckley, cleere in that order

I feel we need Joyce for full just a pity he didn't get the league there.

Hogan did a completely different warm up to rest of players as far as I could see, the body needs a break from what we are seeing.

Don't think Joyce o Shea and Lennon can all play together due to pace. 2 of them at the worst but I would only have Joyce. There was times last night that Lennon and o Shea went sideways and not driving out which is criminal given their size.

JJs Left Hand

Where is this Buckley was great stuff coming out of? Never knows what to do when he runs at a defence, delivery to the forwards poor and Chin destroyed him in the air the last 10 minutes when he was on him. By no means our worst player last night but he was far from great. He's a half back. End of.

brookville

Joyce is done OK last night and is probably our best option at 3 but I couldnt believe looking at 2 and three defenders going for the one ball and it breaking for the wexford runners
Dunno where we go from here hopefully we'll get the injured lads back and a kind draw if there is such thing because every team looks difficult at this stage

dobbs2210

Charlie69 wrote: »

I know we've lost some of the best hurlers to ever play the game to retirement but in my opinion Martin Fogarty has been a huge loss also, very highly thought of by the players and unlike Brian was a great man manager and motivator.. He was also very astute tactically and apparently was the one person on the line that Cody would actually listen to.

Very valid point re: Martin Fogarty in terms of man management and loss tactically but Brian never listened to anybody on the sideline. His man management is absolutely non existent with the players and that's an absolute fact.

unrealtime

There is a litany of discarded players to give testimony to that.

brookville

Brian017 wrote: »

I'm guessing Monday June 26th after the Laois/Carlow Prem. Round qualifier. The 1st Round games are down for Sat July 1st and the 2nd round a week later on the 8th

Is it an open draw or is leinter in one side and munster in the other?

Bahanaman

If we could beat Laois next Saturday week is it possible we could get ye in the qualifiers?! It would generate some interest in Carlow! As a St Mullins man I'd love it. The place would be mental.

Not sure where that Laois match will be played. If it's a neutral venue Nowlan Park would be the obvious choice.

Brian017

brookville wrote: »

Is it an open draw or is leinter in one side and munster in the other?

The first round is Munster vs Leinster with one of the winners of the Laois/Carlow game going into one of the pots with Westmeath going into the other. So basically, we'll be facing a munster team or either Laois/Carlow/Westmeath (depending on which gets placed into the Munster pot).

The 2nd round is an open draw providing it avoid repeat pairings. I think thats how it works anyway, I'm open to correction

DickoHara

dobbs2210 wrote: »

Very valid point re: Martin Fogarty in terms of man management and loss tactically but Brian never listened to anybody on the sideline. His man management is absolutely non existent with the players and that's an absolute fact.

Has the players lost confidence in the sideline Walter Walsh to me finds it hard to read the game M Dempsey had to run in and tell him to step back out for the puck outs when he did that he won a couple of balls one of them was the second penalty. Ritchie seems to be under pressure, like a lot of kilkenny supporters brining on our sub goalie for him was the last straw what was wrong with joe lyng saw him wining a Co final for the rower a couple of years ago at that stage we had nothing to loose to me it sent out the wrong signal. JJ Farrell desireved better than he got last night I wouldn't be a big fan of his. I don't know where we go from here as regards the lad that reckons abuse them on the street it might be your uneducated way of thinking but not a lot of people, remember john power after leinster semi final Mark Corrigan scored I think 3-5 off him look the way he turned out. Sport like everything else changes you have to be able to move with it.

DickoHara

Bahanaman wrote: »

If we could beat Laois next Saturday week is it possible we could get ye in the qualifiers?! It would generate some interest in Carlow! As a St Mullins man I'd love it. The place would be mental.

Not sure where that Laois match will be played. If it's a neutral venue Nowlan Park would be the obvious choice.

Great win yesterday.

minty81

Best point made here was the loss of Martin Fogarty as coach. We look such a poorly coached team at the moment.

And for all those who say we've suffered a massive dip in talent.. obviously the likes of henry, jj, tommy etc are once in a generation group but how does it explain Kierans/kk cbs dominance over the last 6/7 years. Something going wrong at minor and more specifically u-21 level that this dominance is not being reflected at county level