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Official Conor McGregor thread (part 3) *Updated Warning in 1st Post Re:Boxing match

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  • #5222
    raze_them_all_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,783 ✭✭✭raze_them_all_


    Ultimate Seduction wrote: »
    Floyd told Freddie to train Conor so that would be enough of a reason not to be trained by Fredie.

    I think Conor will do his training with Pakie Collins and probably a few amateurs

    Not the reason at all. If someone told a fighter to go train under Jackson would you say no??


  • #5223
    wonderfullife
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,924 ✭✭✭wonderfullife


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    When or where did Kavanagh say that?

    In an interview with Brett Okamoto of ESPN:

    http://www.espn.com/mma/story/_/id/19516405/conor-mcgregor-coach-john-kavanagh-how-getting-ready-floyd-mayweather
    I will say this: Mayweather has proven himself to be perfect against guys who have trained purely in boxing. I was asked very early on, 'Are you going to bring in Freddie Roach? He's the greatest boxing trainer in the world right now.'

    OK. I'm an evidence-based guy. I don't make decision based on emotions. Has Freddie trained somebody to fight Mayweather before? Yes. And a southpaw. A hard-hitting southpaw! And the plan didn't work. I don't see a point in doing the exact same thing.

    Now, he does go on to give Freddie some platitudes saying he's "incredible" and "great" before adding:
    He did come up short in his approach to Mayweather. So, we can't follow the same formula

    I've no idea if he's self-aware enough to spot the huge flaw in logic and how condescending those comments are.

    He's effectively saying that if you train someone for a fight and they lose, then there should be a new trainer for a re-match because the original trainer is incapable of changing up to a new gameplan.

    And yet he wrote an entire book saying precisely the opposite - that you learn from defeats and make changes. So he's obviously implying Freddie is incapable of doing so.

    The interviewer never once asked him anything to do with Freddie Roach either it was a voluntary little dig at the man. For what? Just because Freddie keeps saying Conor has no chance?

    The other thing that really irritated me this week is that JK said he will refuse to shake Floyd's hand irrespective of the result because he has no respect for anybody who lays their hands on a woman.

    I seem to remember Johnny Dargan punching a Good Samaritan in the head and killing him after the poor fella tried to intervene when Dargan was fighting with his missus.

    Won't shake Floyds hand but will welcome back a fella who fights with his woman and kills a guy? Seems consistent.


  • #5224
    Ultimate Seduction
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,464 ✭✭✭Ultimate Seduction


    I don't see the point in getting trained by a guy who publicly says you haven't a hope of winning.


  • #5225
    wonderfullife
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,924 ✭✭✭wonderfullife


    Ultimate Seduction wrote: »
    I don't see the point in getting trained by a guy who publicly says you haven't a hope of winning.

    And if John had said what you just said, nobody would argue it.

    What he actually implied is Freddie Roach is too stupid to learn from a defeat and come up with a better gameplan but he (Diaz 2) can do it.

    I'm not even *reading too much* into the comments. That's exactly what's being implied there.

    Ok, a charitable explanation is that he makes all these controversial comments and sly digs for the publicity because he has a book to sell and doesn't necessarily believe them.


  • #5226
    Too Tough To Die
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭Too Tough To Die


    wonderfullife wrote: »
    And if John had said what you just said, nobody would argue it.

    What he actually implied is Freddie Roach is too stupid to learn from a defeat and come up with a better gameplan but he (Diaz 2) can do it.

    I'm not even *reading too much* into the comments. That's exactly what's being implied there.

    Ok, a charitable explanation is that he makes all these controversial comments and sly digs for the publicity because he has a book to sell and doesn't necessarily believe them.

    You think John believes his own comments? Or perhaps, he was having a bit of a dig at Roach who has been quite disparaging of McGregor's chances?

    I'd say the latter.


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  • #5227
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,296 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    It is a bit of a dig, but it's a bit of a cheap dig.


  • #5228
    wonderfullife
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,924 ✭✭✭wonderfullife


    Too Tough To Die wrote: »
    You think John believes his own comments? Or perhaps, he was having a bit of a dig at Roach who has been quite disparaging of McGregor's chances?

    I'd say the latter.

    99.9% of people are disparaging Conor's chances, sure even Mick Conlan doesn't give him much chance and he's going to be in the camp.

    Freddie has consistently said Conor is a brilliant fighter but not a brilliant boxer.


  • #5229
    Too Tough To Die
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭Too Tough To Die


    wonderfullife wrote: »
    99.9% of people are disparaging Conor's chances, sure even Mick Conlan doesn't give him much chance and he's going to be in the camp.

    Freddie has consistently said Conor is a brilliant fighter but not a brilliant boxer.

    I mean disparaging in the derogatory sense. He also said his guys were beating Conor up in sparring. Whether true or not, it's considered poor form to share info like that from sparring.


  • #5230
    wonderfullife
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,924 ✭✭✭wonderfullife


    Too Tough To Die wrote: »
    I mean disparaging in the derogatory sense. He also said his guys were beating Conor up in sparring. Whether true or not, it's considered poor form to share info like that from sparring.

    From a February interview with Freddie Roach:


    "“He is a pretty good striker,” Roach said. “The thing is, Floyd is a great boxer. He’s really good at hitting and not getting hit and so forth. I think it would take a long time for Conor to get ready for a boxing match, a pure boxing match.

    “But, ya know, one punch can change everything. It’s the sport we’re in. I’m not gonna count him out completely. I think Mayweather is the favorite, yes, but I wouldn’t count anyone out. Because he throws, he throws hard, and he’s not afraid to throw.”"


  • #5231
    Ultimate Seduction
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,464 ✭✭✭Ultimate Seduction


    There's another interview with Roach were he basically laughs for 2 minutes after asking if Conor had any chance.


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  • #5232
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    wonderfullife wrote: »
    The other thing that really irritated me this week is that JK said he will refuse to shake Floyd's hand irrespective of the result because he has no respect for anybody who lays their hands on a woman.

    I seem to remember Johnny Dargan punching a Good Samaritan in the head and killing him after the poor fella tried to intervene when Dargan was fighting with his missus.

    Won't shake Floyds hand but will welcome back a fella who fights with his woman and kills a guy? Seems consistent.

    Not to mention his star pupil and the face of Irish MMA hanging out with associates of the Kinahans.

    A whole load of those cartel boys went to Aintree at the same time as Conor and at least one of them was pictured with him (standing on the Bentley's).

    It's a kick in the teeth to guys like Paddy who are trying to get across the message that martial arts gave them a positive outlet in an area with a lot of drugs.


  • #5233
    Ultimate Seduction
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,464 ✭✭✭Ultimate Seduction


    Conor became a multi million are through martial arts. His rise is one of the most inspiring ever seen. He gets the message across to a hell of a lot more kids than paddy does.

    I don't think anyone cares if some of Conors childhood friends are gangsters apart from one or two posters here.

    I never even knew about them untill wonder posted it here a few months ago.


  • #5234
    wonderfullife
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,924 ✭✭✭wonderfullife


    Ultimate Seduction wrote: »
    There's another interview with Roach were he basically laughs for 2 minutes after asking if Conor had any chance.

    But that's *exactly* what most people on this thread think too?

    Everyone thinks it's a gross mis-match because they are 2 different sports.

    John has now taken pops or digs at the following list of people in the past 12 months:

    Meryl Streep (for being a rich liberal)
    Khabib (for missing weight)
    Ferguson (for turning down opponents)
    Floyd Mayweather (for being a dirtbag who hit a woman)
    Jon Jones (posted multiple syringe emoji's after he popped for UFC 200)
    Anthony Pettis (Trolled him for missing weight)
    Tyron Woodley (lack of skills)

    You can debate the Meryl Streep one but the rest are all Conor's business and it's pretty clear he's only getting involved because of all these articles that result from it:

    http://www.independent.ie/sport/mma/conor-mcgregors-coach-hits-back-at-meryl-streep-after-her-mma-snipe-35357110.html

    http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/ufc/604406/Conor-McGregor-John-Kavanagh-Khabib-Nurmagomedov-UFC-209-UFC-News

    http://www.bjpenn.com/mma-news/tony-ferguson/tony-ferguson-blasts-mcgregor-coach-john-kavanagh-twitter-maintain-lane-btch-1/

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/3736607/conor-mcgregor-floyd-mayweather-john-kavanagh-fight-date/

    http://www.the42.ie/john-kavanagh-reaction-ufc-200-jon-jones-2866216-Jul2016/

    http://www.bjpenn.com/mma-news/john-kavanagh/john-kavanagh-sounds-off-anthony-pettis-missing-weight/

    http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2017/4/15/15311372/3rd-belt-conor-mcgregor-coach-tyron-woodley-just-another-wrestler-with-an-overhand


    When you google Firas Zahabi, the first article suggested under 'News' is Firas demonstrating how to do an inverted triangle from guard.

    When you google Greg Jackson, the first article suggested under 'News' is how he's advising the cast of Kingdom on realism on the tv show.

    When you google Rafael Cordeiro, the first article suggested under 'News' is about TJ Dillashaw training in his gym for his next fight.

    When you google John Kavanagh, the first article suggested under 'News' is "Conor McGregor's Coach calls Floyd Mayweather a lowlife and a woman beater".


    IMO a Coach should be focusing on improving the skills and results of his fighters and not consistently taking digs at other fighters. He's going to get slapped one of these days by an Elite UFC Fighter.


  • #5235
    Ultimate Seduction
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,464 ✭✭✭Ultimate Seduction


    John is a fan like the rest of us and he comments on controversial issues in MMA like every fan does, that's what I like about him.


  • #5236
    wonderfullife
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,924 ✭✭✭wonderfullife


    Ultimate Seduction wrote: »
    John is a fan like the rest of us and he comments on controversial issues in MMA like every fan does, that's what I like about him.

    Taking a dig at Anthony Pettis for missing weight is not a controversial issue it's being a d1ck.

    You'd swear nobody in SBG has ever missed weight.

    Oh wait.

    John Phillips missed by 13.2lbs
    Richie Smullen missed by 2.4lbs
    Sinead Kavanagh missed by 1lb
    Ais Daly missed the TUF 20 Finale by 2lbs

    Yet Pettis misses weight for the first time in his entire career and he sticks the boot in to him?

    For what?? SMH.


  • #5237
    Ultimate Seduction
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,464 ✭✭✭Ultimate Seduction


    Can't argue with that, but anyone is free to take a dig at the SGB fighters that missed weight too, free speech and all that.
    You constantly take digs at John too. I dont see why he should live and act how you want him too.


  • #5238
    wonderfullife
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,924 ✭✭✭wonderfullife


    Ultimate Seduction wrote: »
    Can't argue with that, but anyone is free to take a dig at the SGB fighters that missed weight too, free speech and all that.
    You constantly take digs at John too. I dont see why he should live and act how you want him too.

    The Freddie Roach thing grates me. He's 57 with Parkinson's Disease and a good guy, it was totally uncalled for to have a sneaky pop at him.

    The Pettis one was the worst of the whole lot, what did Anthony Pettis ever do to John? And that was literally 3 months after John Phillips missed weight by a fecking stone lol.

    Meh.


  • #5239
    Too Tough To Die
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭Too Tough To Die


    wonderfullife wrote: »
    The Freddie Roach thing grates me. He's 57 with Parkinson's Disease and a good guy, it was totally uncalled for to have a sneaky pop at him.

    The Pettis one was the worst of the whole lot, what did Anthony Pettis ever do to John? And that was literally 3 months after John Phillips missed weight by a fecking stone lol.

    Meh.

    It's uncalled for because he has Parkinson's? Nonsense, Freddie Roach is no stranger to taking potshots at people and i doubt he'd be too bothered by anything John Kavanagh says. He'd probably be more offended by the idea that he should be treated any differently due to his condition.


  • #5240
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,296 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    You could add in that Roach has trained a few MMA guys too (Andserson Silva and GSP being on the list) so he does know the exact difference between the two sports and how best to manage the transition between the two.


  • #5241
    wonderfullife
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,924 ✭✭✭wonderfullife


    Too Tough To Die wrote: »
    It's uncalled for because he has Parkinson's? Nonsense, Freddie Roach is no stranger to taking potshots at people and i doubt he'd be too bothered by anything John Kavanagh says. He'd probably be more offended by the idea that he should be treated any differently due to his condition.

    Fair.
    CatFromHue wrote: »
    You could add in that Roach has trained a few MMA guys too (Andserson Silva and GSP being on the list) so he does know the exact difference between the two sports and how best to manage the transition between the two.

    He's heavily involved for GSP's next fight too (well assuming GSP actually ever fights again lol).

    Anyway, in actual Conor news, he has moved up 60 something spots on the Forbes Rich List.

    Now at Number 24 in the world, Forbes putting his 2016 earnings at $34 million.


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  • #5242
    kwestfan08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭kwestfan08


    wonderfullife wrote: »
    Fair.



    He's heavily involved for GSP's next fight too (well assuming GSP actually ever fights again lol).

    Anyway, in actual Conor news, he has moved up 60 something spots on the Forbes Rich List.

    Now at Number 24 in the world, Forbes putting his 2016 earnings at $34 million.

    Incredible figures for a mixed martial artist. And in such a short amount of time too. Were he to get the Floyd fight and another UFC one he could be looking at the top 5 next year.


  • #5243
    xtal191
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,534 ✭✭✭xtal191


    kwestfan08 wrote: »
    Incredible figures for a mixed martial artist. And in such a short amount of time too. Were he to get the Floyd fight and another UFC one he could be looking at the top 5 next year.

    If he doesn't get the Floyd fight he'll prob fall way back on that list. How reliable are these lists anyway?


  • #5244
    raze_them_all_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,783 ✭✭✭raze_them_all_


    kwestfan08 wrote: »
    Incredible figures for a mixed martial artist. And in such a short amount of time too. Were he to get the Floyd fight and another UFC one he could be looking at the top 5 next year.

    I would genuinely question that based off baseball, american football and basketball contracts, added in with endorsements


  • #5245
    kwestfan08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭kwestfan08


    xtal191 wrote: »
    If he doesn't get the Floyd fight he'll prob fall way back on that list. How reliable are these lists anyway?

    I suppose like any list they're never going to be 100% accurate but they would be a very good indicator of an athlete's earnings for the year. They're methodology seems pretty thorough

    Forbes earnings figures include all salaries and bonuses earned between June 1, 2016 and June 1, 2017. Endorsement incomes are an estimate of sponsorship deals, appearance fees and licensing income for the 12 months through June 1 based on conversations with dozens of industry insiders. The golfers’ income includes course design work. We do not deduct for taxes or agents’ fees, nor do we include investment income. Our list includes only athletes active in the last 12 months.


    raze_them_all_ wrote: »
    I would genuinely question that based off baseball, american football and basketball contracts, added in with endorsements

    Well just based on this year's list, Kevin Durant is 5th with $60.6m. Floyd fight anywhere from $50m-75m. A UFC fight $12-20m? Add in any endorsements such big fights would bring I don't see why he couldn't.


  • #5246
    Mellor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,377 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    kwestfan08 wrote: »
    Well just based on this year's list, Kevin Durant is 5th with $60.6m. Floyd fight anywhere from $50m-75m. A UFC fight $12-20m? Add in any endorsements such big fights would bring I don't see why he couldn't.
    A UFC fight is nowhere near 20m for him. Even the lower estimate of 12m is way high. If they were in that range he'd have done 60m last year not the 36m quoted.
    I'd guess he done 7-9m per fight in 2016.

    A fight with Floyd put him near the top. If it falls through, he might not even make the list.


  • #5247
    kwestfan08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭kwestfan08


    Mellor wrote: »
    A UFC fight is nowhere near 20m for him. Even the lower estimate of 12m is way high. If they were in that range he'd have done 60m last year not the 36m quoted.
    I'd guess he done 7-9m per fight in 2016.

    A fight with Floyd put him near the top. If it falls through, he might not even make the list.

    Doesn't he only have 2 fights in the eligibility period of June 1st 2016 until June 1st 2017? Diaz in August and then Alverez in November. That's just what I was basing it on unless I'm missing something.


  • #5248
    Ultimate Seduction
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,464 ✭✭✭Ultimate Seduction


    Mellor wrote:
    A UFC fight is nowhere near 20m for him. Even the lower estimate of 12m is way high. If they were in that range he'd have done 60m last year not the 36m quoted. I'd guess he done 7-9m per fight in 2016.


    It's June 1 2016 to June 1 2017

    So it's 36 mil for two fights.


  • #5249
    Mellor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,377 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    wonderfullife wrote: »
    What he actually implied is Freddie Roach is too stupid to learn from a defeat and come up with a better gameplan but he (Diaz 2) can do it.

    I'm not even *reading too much* into the comments. That's exactly what's being implied there
    SurevDillion was brought in as grappling coach for the rematch. ;)

    In all seriousness, you' are potentially overlooking a pretty big factor.

    John didn't necessarily "learn" from 196 to 202. The gameplan was the same for both imo - kick the lead leg, out strike him, don't grapple. The problem with 196 was that Conor didn't follow the game plan.

    But yeah it's silly to suggest Freddys wouldn't change a flawed game plan based on in ring-evidence. Of course he would.
    And I don't think the Pacquio fight was Freddy's first crack at Mayweather. Wouldn't he have been there with Cotto?

    A loss doesn't necessarily mean the game plan was flawed. It's entirely possible that Mayweather was just better.


  • #5250
    Mellor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,377 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Ultimate Seduction wrote: »
    It's June 1 2016 to June 1 2017

    So it's 36 mil for two fights.
    That's total earningsnot just fight earnings. The points stand over 2 fights also. Obvious I've no details on how much he gets paid. But I'd be pretty sure it's not $20m. If he was, he'd be clearing $50m for the year and higher up the rankings.

    The reality is, unless we see his contract we're not going to know. Even Forbes are only guessing.


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  • #5251
    EagererBeaver
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭EagererBeaver


    Mellor wrote: »
    A loss doesn't necessarily mean the game plan was flawed. It's entirely possible that Mayweather was just better.

    That's the key bit here.


This discussion has been closed.
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