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Terrorist Attack in Manchester (Read MOD WARNING in OP Updated 24/05/2017))

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Comments

  • #2912
    neverever1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 864 ✭✭✭neverever1


    bilston wrote: »
    No doubt those who claim to know better will correct me, but my understanding was that the British are currently taking part in operations to defeat Daesh in the Middle East. You know the group that are known for committing genocide, embracing enslavement, destroying ancient monuments and basically just carrying out general evil in the hope of creating a Caliphate.

    You could be describing the British there in fairness.


  • #2913
    gitzy16v
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭gitzy16v


    neverever1 wrote: »
    Biased? How would the reason she gave make a difference? Why would she lie?

    Of the top of my head...to justify her brothers actions and deflect from her religion.
    And no I don't think there is any justification for what happened.


  • #2914
    neverever1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 864 ✭✭✭neverever1


    BoatMad wrote: »
    You could have said the same thing about the establishment of the British empire :D

    :D You beat me too it!


  • #2915
    gitzy16v
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭gitzy16v


    BoatMad wrote: »
    ah, the decent into the weakness begins

    The " you're with us or against us " argument

    None justifies what happens , some of us however are trying to understand the reason why it happened and seek to understand how we might fix the problem so these types of things dont happen again

    its called "thinking "

    Yeh I'm thinking about it and I've concluded it his Islamic faith.
    Islam is the reason...ME bombing is the excuse.


  • #2916
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    neverever1 wrote: »
    Why? Do you not think they all believe the same thing?

    As you've talked about a lot in this thread, western policies in the middle east have upset a lot of the natives there. Hence he would get at least some approval from some people there for his bombing in manchester, if for the alleged reasons he did do it


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  • #2917
    neverever1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 864 ✭✭✭neverever1


    gitzy16v wrote: »
    Of the top of my head...to justify her brothers actions and deflect from her religion.
    And no I don't think there is any justification for what happened.

    I thought they all believed the same thing so she would be delighted?


  • #2918
    neverever1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 864 ✭✭✭neverever1


    wakka12 wrote: »
    As you've talked about a lot in this thread, western policies in the middle east have upset a lot of the natives there. Hence he would get at least some approval from some people there for his bombing in manchester, if for the alleged reasons he did do it

    But they're all Islam maniacs who think killing because they were dressed inappropriately is more worthy?


  • #2919
    BoatMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Nabber wrote: »
    Unfortunately for USA and U.K., you are screwed if you do and screwed if you don't.

    Don't interfere with ME? So let them nuke themselves? Use chemical warfare? Annex each other? Geneocide?
    At which point do you step in? Never?

    Unfortunately the west has been stepping in for 100s of years
    today you even have the bizarre sight of the US effectively bombing both sides of an armed conflict , one it helped arm and start and now is bombing to stop them

    You dont see this as a problem , we are knee deep in blood
    The issue I see is that Europe and its laws, its morals and society is based on Christian values.
    a relatively recent invention and that came from the ME too )
    People now are trying to apply their values on a people who don't agree with your values.

    The west has been " applying out values " to other people for several hundred years , usually in the process, destroying whatever culture it touched
    Unfortunately, as Europe has seen time and again, we are heading towards a movement that ultimately pitches a 'them vs us' mentality.

    people like distinct " enemies ", the " bad guy " is an enduring concept, if largely untrue in reality
    We as a people are no more enlightened the we were 2000 years ago. A decent orator could head any White western county.

    Several made a dram good attempt in recent years , some even succeeded
    Ultimately it was a Russian leader who brought Islam to a halt and forced the first peace treaty of a jihadist army. The fear now is it will be Russia once again,who knows where that goes.

    ah , those commies !


  • #2920
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    BoatMad wrote: »
    sadly , you obviously have made no attempt to actually read up on its history and its leaders, There are several good books by leading western journalists that will seek to educate you

    The demonisation of terror campaigns is of course always undertaken in preference to actually trying to understand the problems and come up with solutions

    to paraphrase Trump " who knew solving the middle east would be so hard "

    Maybe you're right but what exactly do you propose as an alternative? Because call me harsh but ISIS don't seem like the most reasonable of folk, they either get their caliphate and create a middle eastern north korea or else they'll keep attacking
    I don't see what else can be done other than trying to destroy them, and collateral damage will obviously ensue
    And this causes more people to become radicalised
    And the vicious circle goes around and round


  • #2921
    bilston
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,006 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    neverever1 wrote: »
    You could be describing the British there in fairness.

    When? 100-200 years ago?

    Daesh are doing these things right now.


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  • #2922
    BoatMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    gitzy16v wrote: »
    Yeh I'm thinking about it and I've concluded it his Islamic faith.
    Islam is the reason...ME bombing is the excuse.

    think harder, put down the Daily Mail too...

    Hint Islam bas been around a long time ( including radical islam ) , but sucide bombers in the West is a relatively new issue, look at som time lines of when it started

    correlate those to some big events

    think


  • #2923
    gitzy16v
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭gitzy16v


    neverever1 wrote: »
    I thought they all believed the same thing so she would be delighted?
    Do you want tar with your brush?
    BoatMad wrote: »
    think harder, put down the Daily Mail too...

    Ah,resort to petty little put downs....pull your head out of the sand.


  • #2924
    neverever1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 864 ✭✭✭neverever1


    bilston wrote: »
    When? 100-200 years ago?

    Daesh are doing these things right now.

    Far more recent than that.

    We've just been having a discussion on where these groups came from. It's hard to know what to do now.


  • #2925
    BoatMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    bilston wrote: »
    When? 100-200 years ago?

    Daesh are doing these things right now.

    yup. same actions different epoch

    common feature

    humans :D


  • #2926
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    neverever1 wrote: »
    You could be describing the British there in fairness.

    Do you think its more productive to criticise a collapsed empire than talk about how a current regime thats causing untold misery for millions of people could be gotten rid of?


  • #2927
    Romantic Rose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭Romantic Rose


    I was listening to the Father's interview about his son, the murderer. I actually have never heard someone be so ignorant and in so much denial in my whole life. He honestly thought the sun shone out of his backside and that butter wouldn't melt. What the flip.

    Then others members of the Muslim community describing them as such a lovely family. Come on, there's loyalty and then there's ignorance beyond belief.


  • #2928
    neverever1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 864 ✭✭✭neverever1


    gitzy16v wrote: »
    Do you wan tar with your brush?


    Ah,resort to petty little put downs....pull your head out of the sand.

    You've already smeared tar all over it!


  • #2929
    BoatMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    gitzy16v wrote: »
    Do you wan tar with your brush?


    Ah,resort to petty little put downs....pull your head out of the sand.

    education is the effect of pulling yourself out of the sand

    your conclusions cannot be arrived at by any examination of the history of the ME, and the issues behind the rise of IS ( and jihadism in general )


  • #2930
    gitzy16v
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭gitzy16v


    neverever1 wrote: »
    You've already smeared tar all over it!

    Where?


  • #2931
    BoatMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Romantic Rose wrote: »
    I was listening to the Father's interview about his son, the murderer. I actually have never heard someone be so ignorant and in so much denial in my whole life. He honestly thought the sun shone out of his backside and that butter wouldn't melt. What the flip.

    Then others members of the Muslim describing them as such a lovely family. Come on, there's loyalty and then there's ignorance beyond belief.

    rather like how a certain "terrorist" , recently buried was eulogised by a president of the US

    what the flip.........?????


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  • #2932
    neverever1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 864 ✭✭✭neverever1


    wakka12 wrote: »
    Do you think its more productive to criticise a collapsed empire than talk about how a current regime thats causing untold misery for millions of people could be gotten rid of?

    The British have dropped bombs on the Middle East nearly every day this year.


  • #2933
    gitzy16v
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭gitzy16v


    BoatMad wrote: »
    education is the effect of pulling yourself out of the sand

    your conclusions cannot be arrived at by any examination of the history of the ME, and the issues behind the rise of IS ( and jihadism in general )

    This where your argument falls down....Islam is the problem...bombing in the ME is the tool to recruit the dumbasses who blow themselves up.
    Islam has no place,in its current guise,in civilised society.
    Killing gays,non-believers...yeh lovely religion and 0 chance of it being reformed because its the literal word of god.


  • #2934
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    BoatMad wrote: »
    rather like how a certain "terrorist" , recently buried was eulogised by a president of the US

    what the flip.........?????

    how is that relevant? Maybe somewhat relevant to the discussion but not that posters comment


  • #2935
    BoatMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    wakka12 wrote: »
    how is that relevant? Maybe somewhat relevant to the discussion but not that posters comment

    the fact remains, that to his family , like many families he was an ordinary nice guy

    its not at all surprising they would be seeing it like that

    and the fact is under different circumstances, he would one just that


  • #2936
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    neverever1 wrote: »
    The British have dropped bombs on the Middle East nearly every day this year.

    does that make britain an empire again?


  • #2937
    Romantic Rose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭Romantic Rose


    BoatMad wrote: »
    rather like how a certain "terrorist" , recently buried was eulogised by a president of the US

    what the flip.........?????

    I'm talking about the direct relationship of father to son. He raised him, he should have been disgusted by his son's act but the apple didn't fall too far from the tree.


  • #2938
    Exeggcute
    Closed Accounts Posts: 402 ✭✭Exeggcute


    Nabber wrote: »
    Unfortunately for USA and U.K., you are screwed if you do and screwed if you don't.

    Don't interfere with ME? So let them nuke themselves? Use chemical warfare? Annex each other? Geneocide?
    At which point do you step in? Never?

    Unfortunately, as Europe has seen time and again, we are heading towards a movement that ultimately pitches a 'them vs us' mentality.

    Ultimately it was a Russian leader who brought Islam to a halt and forced the first peace treaty of a jihadist army. The fear now is it will be Russia once again,who knows where that goes.

    One of the worst uses of Chemical weapons was when Saddam Hussein attacked Iran in the 80's - thousands of Iranians were gassed by Saddam. Where did he get his weapons? The U.S.

    They gleefully cheered him on as he gassed Iranians in a totally unprovoked attack on Iran.

    Saddam was their golden boy.

    Saddam_rumsfeld.jpg

    Iran appealed to everyone they could for help in defending themselves against Saddam's missiles.

    They were given the cold shoulder by everyone. So they realised they had to build their own missiles and defend themselves. Nobody came to their aid in the worst use of chemical weapons since WW2.

    Now they are being demonised again for their missile program

    Here is their foreign minister responding to questions about their ballistic missiles. It is well worth listening to

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7wiroruAKo



    As for the us versus them mentaility.

    Well there is this from George W. Bush

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-23kmhc3P8U


    Who then attacked Iraq who had nothing to do with 9/11

    Go figure.


  • #2939
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    BoatMad wrote: »
    the fact remains, that to his family , like many families he was an ordinary nice guy

    its not at all surprising they would be seeing it like that

    and the fact is under different circumstances, he would one just that

    Well I whole heartedly disagree
    I don't believe that anybody knowingly bringing a live bomb to a concert full of young girls could or would ever be a 'nice guy' under any set of circumstnces, even if we lived in a peaceful world where he hadnt felt so enraged by evil westerners that he had to take it out on arianna grande fans

    Your posts are teetering ever so close to the edge of justifying his acts


  • #2940
    neverever1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 864 ✭✭✭neverever1


    wakka12 wrote: »
    does that make britain an empire again?

    You said empire, not me.


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  • #2941
    AllForIt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,693 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    Romantic Rose wrote: »
    I was listening to the Father's interview about his son, the murderer. I actually have never heard someone be so ignorant and in so much denial in my whole life. He honestly thought the sun shone out of his backside and that butter wouldn't melt. What the flip.

    Then others members of the Muslim describing them as such a lovely family. Come on, there's loyalty and then there's ignorance beyond belief.

    Yeah it was pretty pathetic. Oh, he goes to university so it could't possibly be true. I recall the mother of the Boston bombers defending her son's in the same way too.

    But what the fathers comments unwittingly show, is that his son wasn't deranged but that he was an ordinary Muslim not too much different from his counterparts, that just took the decision to carry out an attack, rather than not.


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