Terrorist Attack in Manchester (Read MOD WARNING in OP Updated 24/05/2017))

Ash.J.Williams · 23-05-2017 03:52PM

Lately Social media people have been driving me nuts with their bullsh1t, but my faith was restored by the generosity providing some relief for the victims and the kids who were separated from their parents. People were opening up their homes, taxis turned off the meters, free food, hotels offering meeting places ...well done. I've a 5 year old daughter and I have to say the pics of the victims are killing me as they don't look much older.

Scarinae · 23-05-2017 03:53PM

rossie1977 wrote: »

A quick security check upon entering victoria station would have stopped the incident happening where it happened.

If you're talking about the 7/7 London bombings then no it wouldn't have, because the bombers got on the various tube lines at King's Cross which is in a different part of the city.

pilly · 23-05-2017 03:53PM

Jamiekelly wrote: »

Looks like I need to do another clean out of my Facebook friends list. Nothing like a good terrorist attack to learn which local people are conspiracy swallowers and reality deniers.

A parent with 2 daughters sharing links to false flag articles that make infowars look professional. Was very close to calling her an unfit mother who should be ashamed of herself. This seems to be a regular thing with every new attack.

Are people in this country really so gullible?

What's false flag articles?

LincolnsBeard · 23-05-2017 03:55PM

Lady Spangles wrote: »

There is nothing sinister about the march in that video. Nothing at all. Here's a link to a full article all about it:

I know what the march is about ffs, and if you were reading the thread you would have seen the other man post about it. I went to the Birmingham Milad where Lord Ahmed stood on a stage and told the Muslim audience that UK citizens should be prosecuted for blasphemy against the Prophet Muhammad.

I never said the march itself is in some way 'evil'. I said that it shows the existence of a seperate culture forming compeltely isolated from mainstream society.

Your focus on how 'peaceful' the march is, is irrelevant. I can show you plenty of videos from the UK where marches are not particularly endearing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtfH1MtLxvo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2nlIfn8tNA

Lady Spangles · 23-05-2017 03:55PM

LincolnsBeard wrote: »

The point is it's culturally isolated. It doesn't look like England. You cannot expect people like that to integrate into 'society' when you have mass migration on such a level as to form seperate societies.

You would not want to live there. You can feign ignorance, and say everybody is obeying the law and it's all fine and dandy, but it's a cultural colonisation of an area for the worse.

What is it about Islam I don't understand? Please do tell me, seeing as you are so enlightened.

Seriously, as I stated above, they're just celebrating the birth of the Prophet Muhammad. That's all. It's like Christians celebrating Christmas. The banners read: "We love Muhammad - mercy to all mankind". That's all. It's nothing to be suspicious of. And because it's an Islamic celebration, it's bound to attract predominantly Muslim people. It's rather like Bethlehem attracting a lot of Catholics. It just stands to reason.

Just so you know, the mayor and some local politicians also took part and encouraged others to take part too.

It seems to me you're just reacting to something you clearly don't understand. You're hearing foreign voices and different looking people and jumping to conclusions without looking at what they're actually doing.

Just calm down, they're all good. And it is unmistakeably England. England has had huge and diverse communities since the days of Danelaw.

Fratton Fred · 23-05-2017 03:57PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Internment won't work. There will just be replacements with more commitment - which is/was the result of internment everywhere else in the world.
More bombing won't work either mind you, but the western governments and the arms companies they support are not ready to 'realise' that yet. too much money to be made.

so what's the answer then Einstein?

FAILSAFE 00 · 23-05-2017 03:58PM

end of the road wrote: »

we won't realise it as internment isn't a solution to anything. internment has failed everywhere it has been tried. time to move on.

you might be on it.
in fact, for calling for the murder of innocent people you would definitely be on it (whether you like it or not under the law people are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law)

can't be done. due process is the only legitimate way and it must happen. once you suspend the rights for some it eventually extends to us all. as i said, i'm not giving up any rights for any supposed protection from the authorities.

but it would be okay if they got killed in the crossfire due to your nonsense proposal? right so.

So what is your workable solution with 0% innocent casualties?

I look forward to your post.

23-05-2017 03:58PM

LincolnsBeard wrote: »

The point is it's culturally isolated. It doesn't look like England. You cannot expect people like that to integrate into 'society' when you have mass migration on such a level as to form seperate societies.

You would not want to live there. You can feign ignorance, and say everybody is obeying the law and it's all fine and dandy, but it's a cultural colonisation of an area for the worse.

What is it about Islam I don't understand? Please do tell me, seeing as you are so enlightened.

Why does it not look like England?
What do you think England looks like? All white faced church of England types?

Why wouldn't someone want to live there?

Exeggcute · 23-05-2017 04:00PM

HigginsJ wrote: »

Not much would make me feel better about this situation, these are not targeted attacks against those in power or attacks against strategic locations, it is terror attacks, pure and simple.

Short of us all converting to this vile excuse for a religion I doubt who we vote into power will make a difference, we need to fight back with draconian policies against anyone even remotely connected with these actions.

Clearly if they are "known" to the police then they shouldn't be walking around freely, tag them, set a strict boundary of how far they are allowed travel from their homes, increase the funding to monitor and police these people, cut off all their rights, allow them to gain back the right not to be thought a terrorist rather than allowing them to go about their business freely.

Terrorism - "the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims."

"We treat them in the same way. Those who kill our women and innocent, we kill their women and innocent, until they refrain." - Osama Bin Laden

They've been saying the same thing for almost two decades now, yet people think dropping more bombs on the Middle East is the solution.

Zubeneschamali · 23-05-2017 04:01PM

LincolnsBeard wrote: »

The point is it's culturally isolated. It doesn't look like England.

You're supposed to keep up the pretense and say "the UK", at least until the Scots and the Irish leave.

tayto lover · 23-05-2017 04:01PM

rossie1977 wrote: »

The Chinese have security checks/x-rays in every station so again it can be done and I was far less inconvenienced using the Beijing metro than I have using the London underground

A quick security check upon entering victoria station would have stopped the incident happening where it happened.

And if it occurred just before the crowds arrived at the security check??

Danzy · 23-05-2017 04:03PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

You're supposed to keep up the pretense and say "the UK", at least until the Scots and the Irish leave.

Many people here tend to refer to Britain as England, that was the reality of it, still is.

Britain is just England's Imperial vehicle but it has always been clear who was in charge and who had to go along to get along.

DrWu · 23-05-2017 04:03PM

kfallon wrote: »

What in the name of f?ck does that have to do with the atrocity in Manchester last night???

The Shinners and their buddies did the very same for thirty years. Sick of seeing and hearing people who I know voted for SF now expressing their horror at what happened in Manchester. Wake up and smell the semtex people.

wonderfullife · 23-05-2017 04:05PM

tastyt wrote: »

If somebody argues that it wont work and we havevto get to the root of the issue then yes lets get to the root of it but protect your own people first. We need strong leaders who can resist the do gooder nonsense and make people in Europe feel safe in their own cities .

3 people died in the UK in terrorism related incidents in 2013.

1,713 died in car crashes the same year.

381 people drowned.

518 people were murdered.

6,222 committed suicide.

First up, get the scale of the problem and threat into some sort of perspective.

Second up, if there was easy solutions to ANY of these problems they would all have been fixed long ago.

Using extremely rare UK terrorist incidents to harp on about your prejudices against an entire religion is just as stupid as using car deaths to harp on about your prejudices against cars.

The answer to 300 people dying in BMW car crashes isn't to get rid of all BMW's, isn't ship them all back to Germany and isn't banning everyone from driving.

LincolnsBeard · 23-05-2017 04:05PM

Lady Spangles wrote: »

And because it's an Islamic celebration, it's bound to attract predominantly Muslim people.

Nelson has a growing Muslim population.

It was about 57% White British at the 2011 census.

It will not be 57% White British at the next census, because most people who are not Muslim (Which White Brits aren't) do not desire to live in area where the Prophet Muhammad's Birthday is something they have to watch being observed from their front door.

So the integration problem is going to get worse.

Lady Spangles wrote: »

Just so you know, the mayor and some local politicians also took part and encouraged others to take part too.

Once again, I watched Lord Ahmed advocate the prosecution of British citizens on stage in Birmingham at the Milad event, and Harriet Harman's husband Jack Dromey sat there saying absolutely nothing as a gathering of Muslims cheered. It's only a matter of time until they begin to express their will.

Lady Spangles wrote: »

It seems to me you're just reacting to something you clearly don't understand. You're hearing foreign voices and different looking people and jumping to conclusions without looking at what they're actually doing.

I grew up next to a Muslim area.

I have read the Qu'ran and the Haidths.

I watch on the news every night a new story about Mi5 foiling a plot to blow up the next batch of unlucky citizens.

I hear about how one fifth of disabled children born in the borough I'm living in at the moment are the result ofFirst cousin Pakistani marriages.

I have to watch the news reports coming in of the countless grooming gang trials where older Pakistani men believed that young white girls were easy meat (as quoted by the then home secretary) and fair game for being non-Muslim.

I have to hear there isn't a single successful prosecution of Female Genital Mutilation, yet nurses in the NHS are saying it is rampant.

Do not try to patronise me and suggest I am not somebody who has not taken an interest in what is happening in my hometown. Do not suggest to me that I am in some way an unenlightened being, motivated by base prejudice.

end of the road · 23-05-2017 04:07PM

HigginsJ wrote: »

Not much would make me feel better about this situation, these are not targeted attacks against those in power or attacks against strategic locations, it is terror attacks, pure and simple.

Short of us all converting to this vile excuse for a religion I doubt who we vote into power will make a difference, we need to fight back with draconian policies against anyone even remotely connected with these actions.

Clearly if they are "known" to the police then they shouldn't be walking around freely, tag them, set a strict boundary of how far they are allowed travel from their homes, increase the funding to monitor and police these people, cut off all their rights, allow them to gain back the right not to be thought a terrorist rather than allowing them to go about their business freely.

draconian policies don't work and would only be supported by extremists. it's up to the authorities to prove guilt.

LincolnsBeard · 23-05-2017 04:08PM

wonderfullife wrote: »

3 people died in the UK in terrorism related incidents in 2013.

Could we please take a look at Mi5's increasing budget, the number of attacks that they have foiled and the population percentage of the demographic who are vulnerable to engaging in this type of terrorism activity.

That will give you a much better idea of the scale of the problem.

Zubeneschamali · 23-05-2017 04:09PM

LincolnsBeard wrote: »

most people who are not Muslim (Which White Brits aren't) do not desire to live in area where the Prophet Muhammad's Birthday is something they have to watch being observed from their front door.

So the integration problem is going to get worse.

So you're saying white british people are so prejudiced that they won't watch another religious group celebrating peacefully, and this is somehow Islam's fault?

23-05-2017 04:09PM

two irritants in terms of people talking past each other or being deliberately obtuse

1: everyone is perfectly aware that these atrocities are often carried out by eg british-born rather than immigrant terrorists, presumably the point here is that theyre all just totally unoredictable individuals lolz

everyone pointing this out is at great pains not to make the rather more obvious link, which in context just makes them look ridiculous

2. its very very simple to draw up a reasonably credible terrorist suspect watchlist - one exists already. no, nobody proposing it in this thread is on one. don't be ridiculous.

it would therefore be entirely possible to move harder and quicker to intervene in cases of possible conversion to extremism. it just wouldnt be legal.

i hear what people are saying about internment, surveillance, slippery slope, but i think its time that we stopped using such rhetoric to defend the current situation. if credible evidence of sufficient weight is presented against any one individual then they forfeit certain of their rights as a citizen until such time as it takes to ensure that they do not pose a threat.

those arguing that internment was a useful proganda tool in NI are ignoring the very basic differences between controlling known terror suspects in your own country versus using a clumsy system to maintain riot rule in an occupied territory.

wonderfullife · 23-05-2017 04:12PM

LincolnsBeard wrote: »

Could we please take a look at Mi5's increasing budget, the number of attacks that they have foiled and the population percentage of the demographic who are vulnerable to engaging in this type of terrorism activity.

That will give you a much better idea of the scale of the problem.

Do you want to take a look at the increasing need for funds for mental health awareness and the % of the demographic vulnerable to suicidal ideation too?

We can only go on actual facts.

The facts are Islamic Terrorism has killed less people in the UK in the past decade than peanut-allergy deaths.

Waffling on about how awful Islam is doesn't change that fact.

dav3 · 23-05-2017 04:12PM

LincolnsBeard wrote: »

Nelson has a growing Muslim population.

It was about 57% White British at the 2011 census.

It will not be 57% White British at the next census, because most people who are not Muslim (Which White Brits aren't) do not desire to live in area where the Prophet Muhammad's Birthday is something they have to watch being observed from their front door.

Why are you bringing skin colour into this and why are you telling us about some small backwards town in England that nobody on an Irish forum cares about?

blackwhite · 23-05-2017 04:13PM

Widdershins wrote: »

Someone shared a video of an interview with a mother who had been inside. She said the security wasn't very good. Bags weren't checked at the entrance. She'd reported a lone adult woman who was sitting next to her, getting agitated and behaving strangely but security staff didn't really address her concerns. The lone woman 'disappeared' a couple of minutes before the bomb exploded.

TBF - the concert had ended, so someone who was sitting beside you getting up and leaving isn't exactly strange behaviour.

kopite386 · 23-05-2017 04:14PM

Just saw this - the images he will have in his mind will live with him forever, pulling nails out of a little girl's face
https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/867001780193898498

LincolnsBeard · 23-05-2017 04:16PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

So you're saying white british people are so prejudiced that they won't watch another religious group celebrating peacefully, and this is somehow Islam's fault?

I'm saying it is an inevitability.

People who are not Muslim generally speaking will not live in a Muslim area.

I live in a heavily Sikh area with some Hindu's, next to an area with a heavily Muslim popuulation. The difference is stark. The younger generation seem to integrate much more easily than their elders did. I hate to sound crass, but the younger generations are far more likely to go to the pub and less likely to follow the traditions of the elder population.

This is not the case with the Muslim community. They are absolutely isolated, perhaps by both their own activities and the prejudice they face. It's a closed shop, with very little integration.

We seem to largely be in agreement that the method to solving this problem is integration. I simply do not know how you expect integration to happen. The problem areas like Molenbeek are going to continue to grow in size, and people will move away from them.

I don't see Western foreign policy changing any time soon, so the problems will be exacerbated.

Zubeneschamali · 23-05-2017 04:16PM

Deleted User wrote: »

i hear what people are saying about internment, surveillance, slippery slope, but i think its time that we stopped using such rhetoric to defend the current situation.

I'm sure Mrs. May will oblige by taking away your rights as soon as she gets you out from under the tyrannical thumb of the International Courts.

No more innocent until proven guilty, evidence in court, get a warrant stuff, just kick in doors and shoot people.

LincolnsBeard · 23-05-2017 04:19PM

wonderfullife wrote: »

Do you want to take a look at the increasing need for funds for mental health awareness and the % of the demographic vulnerable to suicidal ideation too?

We can only go on actual facts.

The facts are Islamic Terrorism has killed less people in the UK in the past decade than peanut-allergy deaths.

Waffling on about how awful Islam is doesn't change that fact.

Once again, there is not a concerted effort from Mi5 to try and protect people who have peanut allergies from imminent death.

The lack of deaths attributed to Islamic Extremism in recent years is the product of great intelligence work, not a lack of will on behalf of the extremists.

dav3 wrote: »

Why are you bringing skin colour into this and why are you telling us about some small backwards town in England that nobody on an Irish forum cares about?

If you have read what I said, the largest demographic is non-Muslim, hence why it was relevant to what I was saying.

As for the town, I posted the video as an example and then the discussion followed from there.

Doltanian · 23-05-2017 04:20PM

Meanwhile tonight over in the Philippines a massive battle is taking place between Muslim pro-Islamic State forces and the Army of the Philippines in a city located in the south of the Country.

http://news.abs-cbn.com/news/05/23/17/soldiers-cops-battle-maute-terrorists-in-marawi-city

Richard Hillman · 23-05-2017 04:21PM

mikeybrennan wrote: »

Internment doesn't work

You remove one another takes his place

Why would people go to a place where suspects are being interned? This is an alien threat, not internal. There are not enough for there to be a conveyer belt.

Danzy · 23-05-2017 04:21PM

Prediction.

The authorities and mainstream politicians will continue with the lah di da approach of "diversity is our strength and value",PR speak, a stream of talk about solidarity and coming together, while the bodies pile up, and other victims as well.

Repeated ad nauseum after this event and the next 30, people will get so sick of politicians refusing to engage or admit that their is a problem that they will turn to those who will and they may not be nice people but when you keep patronizing voters and shutting them down they have a way to send a message at the ballot box.

It is already sending the Left to the political edges in many parts of Europe.

I dread to think what an attack like this would do in France, things like that can lead to civil conflict.

FrancieBrady · 23-05-2017 04:23PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

so what's the answer then Einstein?

Same as the answer was in Ireland.
Governments take responsibility for their actions and interference in the affairs of other countries whether by invasion or black ops.
Stop suppressing indigenous peoples and exploiting the resources of others for their own selfish ends.
Make some kind of reparations for the past.
Apologise.

Because I guarantee you, just like in Ireland, they will have to do it one day. You will not bomb or intern this one into submission, it isn't going to happen tbh. That is the stark reality.

Do we have to wait 40 years (like we did here) and suffer many many more days like yesterday before we say enough?

Terrorist Attack in Manchester (Read MOD WARNING in OP Updated 24/05/2017))

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