Terrorist Attack in Manchester (Read MOD WARNING in OP Updated 24/05/2017))

ricero · 23-05-2017 03:25PM

Thread title is disgusting. Lets call a spade a spade its terroism not an incident

pilly · 23-05-2017 03:27PM

languagenerd wrote: »

This always comes up in these threads. Caring about one group of victims doesn't mean you don't care about another.

But for most Irish people, something that happened in the UK will always resonate more strongly than an incident in a far-off place we know little about. Manchester is a city with a culture like our own, many of us have been there or know people living there, it was a concert nearly identical to one that took place here two days ago and many of us have travelled to the UK for gigs. It's very familiar to us and very real in our heads. It's very easy for us to picture the scene, to imagine ourselves or our families in a similar situation.

On a micro level, if you heard someone died in a tragic accident, you might think "that's awful" and feel a bit sad, but you continue on with your day. If you find out that the person was from your village or went to your school or was friends with your cousin or worked in the bar you go to etc, it plays on your mind more throughout the day, you might even go to the funeral. And obviously if you knew the person, that's obviously going to affect you significantly. Does that mean you don't care about the stranger? Or just that the people closer to you (geographically/culturally/socially) affect you more?

I'll be honest I've the same level of feeling about both. Maybe that's just me. There's a difference if you knew someone obviously but what I'm talking about is when you don't know either, why is one more important than another I just don't get it?

But then again if I'm honest I'm not one who can say that I suffer grief for people I don't know. I never understand the outpourings of "oh my heart is broken" etc. It's just not natural.

We actually don't have a right to pronounce grief for those we don't know. It belittles the pain the people who do know them are going through.

AudreyHepburn · 23-05-2017 03:27PM

fontdor wrote: »

Now I'm a Muslim and absolutely ashamed of it. I have no words to be honest about the incident and of course all the other incidents caused by the radical muslims. All I can say is that not all of us are the same. In Islam we believe in peace kindness and friendship but unfortunately certain radical muslims brain wash others into thinking otherwise. My heart and prayers to all the victims of the Manchester incident.

Lovely words and well done for being brave enough to post them here.

I think we all need to take a step back, let go of the outrage for a moment and try to remember that Islam in itself is not the problem. Nor are the majority of it's followers.

It's a minority of extremists, Wahabbists, who seem have twisted the faith for their own despicable ends are the problem.

pilly · 23-05-2017 03:28PM

ricero wrote: »

Thread title is disgusting. Lets call a spade a spade its terroism not an incident

At the time the thread was opened it wasn't. If you read it you'd know that.

Beasty · 23-05-2017 03:28PM

ricero wrote: »

Thread title is disgusting. Lets call a spade a spade its terroism not an incident

Thread was started before anyone had a clue as to what was going on

tayto lover · 23-05-2017 03:29PM

Widdershins wrote: »

Someone shared a video of an interview with a mother who had been inside. She said the security wasn't very good. Bags weren't checked at the entrance. She'd reported a lone adult woman who was sitting next to her, getting agitated and behaving strangely but security staff didn't really address her concerns. The lone woman 'disappeared' a couple of minutes before the bomb exploded.

What can they do?
If someone wants to cause an atrocity there's very little anyone can do to prevent it.
People wouldn't be long complaining if there were 4 hour queues to get in because of searches. Imagine trying to search the crowd going into Croke Park or some other big venue here? Even if they did that what's to stop some lunatic targeting the crowd on a busy street long before they got to Croke Park?

hatrickpatrick · 23-05-2017 03:30PM

Beefy78 wrote: »

I just don't understand the mentality of someone planning a terrorist attack like this, looking down the list of upcoming events and choosing the one full of kids. Kids man, FFS.

Surely an attack like this can only upset & anger the moderate majority in the Muslim community as it does the rest of us.

Pretty simple really, they look for the events that will cause the maximum amount of media coverage. If there's one thing these guys are, it's media savvy.

Osama Bin Laden is on record as having specifically organised for the aeroplanes to hit the twin towers roughly ten minutes apart, so that all of the world's media would have had time to get set up covering the first crash and therefore broadcast footage of the second one live to people all over the world.

And that's all that matters to them. They don't have any humanity whatsoever, that has long since been brainwashed out of them. All that matters to them is their cause. Everything else is expendable to that.

jackofalltrades · 23-05-2017 03:30PM

Absolutely sickening attack, RIP to the victims.

endacl · 23-05-2017 03:30PM

pilly wrote: »

At the time the thread was opened it wasn't. If you read it you'd know that.

That would contravene the 'Leap to Outrage' clause, surely?

pilly · 23-05-2017 03:31PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

The murder of innocent children isn't a terrible tragic incident?

That's not what I mean and if you'd read my post properly you'd understand that.

The word tragedy just doesn't describe what happened properly. To be a tragedy is an accident, a boat sinking, a plane crashing. This was a deliberate act by humans.

So I think atrocity is a better word. It's pedantic I know but I think it diminishes what happened to call it a tragedy.

ricero · 23-05-2017 03:31PM

Beasty wrote: »

Thread was started before anyone had a clue as to what was going on

Yes i know that. Think by this stage it should be changed

Zubeneschamali · 23-05-2017 03:31PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

If you're not doing anything wrong then you should have nothing to worry about.

Yes, because the Government and the Police would never pick on the wrong people.

Like the Birmingham Six or the Guildford Four. Nope, never happens.

LincolnsBeard · 23-05-2017 03:32PM

https://twitter.com/GCraughwell/status/866918636551892993

lol

Crann na Beatha · 23-05-2017 03:33PM

This post has been deleted.

mikeybrennan · 23-05-2017 03:34PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Osama Bin Laden is on record as having specifically organised for the aeroplanes to hit the twin towers roughly ten minutes apart, so that all of the world's media would have had time to get set up covering the first crash and therefore broadcast footage of the second one live to people all over the world.

In 10 minutes

I'm calling bs on that

HigginsJ · 23-05-2017 03:36PM

Exeggcute wrote: »

My point is very real. You can deny reality all you like of it makes you feel better but ignorance is at the very root of this problem

Not much would make me feel better about this situation, these are not targeted attacks against those in power or attacks against strategic locations, it is terror attacks, pure and simple.

Short of us all converting to this vile excuse for a religion I doubt who we vote into power will make a difference, we need to fight back with draconian policies against anyone even remotely connected with these actions.

Clearly if they are "known" to the police then they shouldn't be walking around freely, tag them, set a strict boundary of how far they are allowed travel from their homes, increase the funding to monitor and police these people, cut off all their rights, allow them to gain back the right not to be thought a terrorist rather than allowing them to go about their business freely.

rossie1977 · 23-05-2017 03:36PM

tayto lover wrote: »

What can they do?
If someone wants to cause an atrocity there's very little anyone can do to prevent it.
People wouldn't be long complaining if there were 4 hour queues to get in because of searches. Imagine trying to search the crowd going into Croke Park or some other big venue here? Even if they did that what's to stop some lunatic targeting the crowd on a busy street long before they got to Croke Park?

You can search everyone entering a venue no matter how big because they do it upon entering cowboy stadium which is bigger than croke park.

Stopping a lunatic targetting a crowd leaving is alot more difficult. I can only imagine what it was like last night. I have attended a dozen shows over the past 19 years in that venue and the place where the guy detonated the bomb was just outside the main exit where people gather to catch their train or buy merchandise after the show. There is also a McDonalds there which is jam packed after every performance.

Lady Spangles · 23-05-2017 03:39PM

LincolnsBeard wrote: »

I would love to hear your advice on how we get more integration in areas like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zD4mZyEoePo

Take a walk around parts of the UK and there's no way you can be surprised that every once in a while you get a Jihadist that tries to mass murder people.

All that video shows is Muslim people parading through narrow streets. It's peaceful (in a noisy loudspeakers kind of way), there's no violence and there's no disorder. So what's the problem? Are you just worried by things you don't understand?

EDIT: There aren't even that many of them. There just looks like more because they're cramped into narrow streets.

elefant · 23-05-2017 03:39PM

ricero wrote: »

Thread title is disgusting. Lets call a spade a spade its terroism not an incident

Beasty wrote: »

Thread was started before anyone had a clue as to what was going on

ricero wrote: »

Yes i know that. Think by this stage it should be changed

Well, disgusting is bit hysterical then, surely.

tayto lover · 23-05-2017 03:40PM

rossie1977 wrote: »

You can search everyone entering a venue no matter how big because they do it upon entering cowboy stadium which is bigger than croke park.

Stopping a lunatic targetting a crowd leaving is alot more difficult. I can only imagine what it was like last night because I have attended a dozen shows over the past 19 years in that venue and the place where the guy detonated the bomb was the main just outside the main exit where people gather to catch their train or buy merchandise after the show. There is also a McDonalds there which is jam packed after every performance.

I know that but my point is that you can't stop this kind of incident.
The 7/7 terrorist bombers targeted buses and underground tubes in London.
There is no stopping that. To try would cause chaos to commuters, traffic and people just trying to get to work.

wonderfullife · 23-05-2017 03:41PM

"If a problem has no solution, it may not be a problem, but a fact - not to be solved, but to be coped with over time." - Shimon Peres

I've very little time for Peres but that statement sadly holds true about many of the horrible issues we face in life - from Islamic terrorism all the way to domestic suicides to car crashes.

There is no clear easy solution to any of these issues, if there was we would have eradicated the issues years ago.

All we can do is put faith in the police, security services and western nations to do all they can to minimize the risk we all face from Islamic Extremism and keep us safe.

The UK is doing a good job. For all the rhetoric, this is the first mass-murder attack in 12 years and I've no doubt countless plots were averted in that period.

It can't and won't be stopped.

end of the road · 23-05-2017 03:43PM

jmayo wrote: »

Interment is the solution to that and some day you will realise it.

we won't realise it as internment isn't a solution to anything. internment has failed everywhere it has been tried. time to move on.

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

I wouldn't be on it.

you might be on it.
in fact, for calling for the murder of innocent people you would definitely be on it (whether you like it or not under the law people are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law)

HigginsJ wrote: »

The authorities need to be given carte blanche and **** due process for anyone who is on any of these lists or known to them, **** whatever rights they might think they have.

can't be done. due process is the only legitimate way and it must happen. once you suspend the rights for some it eventually extends to us all. as i said, i'm not giving up any rights for any supposed protection from the authorities.

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

I wouldn't be on it.

Innocent people could be unfortunately caught in the crossfire or be on list due to having associated with known terrorists.

I am simply being a realist. You'll always unfortunately have civilian casualties however I accept that rather than having children killed due to terror watch list suspects falling though the cracks.

but it would be okay if they got killed in the crossfire due to your nonsense proposal? right so.

rossie1977 · 23-05-2017 03:44PM

tayto lover wrote: »

I know that but my point is that you can't stop this kind of incident.
The 7/7 terrorist bombers targeted buses and underground tubes in London.
There is no stopping that. To try would cause chaos to commuters, traffic and people just trying to get to work.

The Chinese have security checks/x-rays in every station so again it can be done and I was far less inconvenienced using the Beijing metro than I have using the London underground

A quick security check upon entering victoria station would have stopped the incident happening where it happened.

kopite386 · 23-05-2017 03:48PM

The BBC & Sky only reporting on the 3rd confirmed dead now ?! I mentioned it earlier on the thread around 2pm after Manchester Evening News reported it
I wonder why the delay

jackofalltrades · 23-05-2017 03:48PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Lovely words and well done for being brave enough to post them here.

I think we all need to take a step back, let go of the outrage for a moment and try to remember that Islam in itself is not the problem. Nor are the majority of it's followers.

No Islam is the problem.
The sooner people realise this the sooner we can start to address the problem.

It's a minority of extremists, Wahabbists, who seem have twisted the faith for their own despicable ends are the problem.

Really these extremists don't seem to be behaving all that differently to how Mohammed behaved in his day.

Exeggcute · 23-05-2017 03:48PM

jmayo wrote: »

So using your login why did ordinary Swedish people (children included) get mown down in their capital ?
What did the Swedish government ever do against a muslim country or against Middle East ?

I don't have the time to provide a lengthy explanation but in short Sweden isn't some idyllic paradise separate from the rest of Europe much as people would like to grasp on to the attack there as some kind of aberration

Sweden arms dictators in the Middle East including those in Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and Egypt. They participated in the NATO air campaign against Libya. They are the third largest arms exporter per capita after Israel and Russia.

On the other hand they have bizarre policies towards ISIS. Look them up.

There's a huge problem with ghetto's of predominantly Muslims in Sweden, places like Malmo.

So I'm sure some ISIS nutter could easily find some reason to justify an attack in Sweden. After all, they see pretty much everyone who isn't in ISIS as an enemy. If you welcome them back from jihad abroad with housing grants, drivers licenses and other goodies you are just deluded in thinking this will placate them.

Sweden is an interesting case as they seem on the one hand to be very much involved in the dirty side of what is going on in the Middle East but on the other hand have an insane open door policy towards returning jihadis and then act surprised when they bite the hand that feeds them.

Lady Spangles · 23-05-2017 03:49PM

LincolnsBeard wrote: »

I would love to hear your advice on how we get more integration in areas like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zD4mZyEoePo

Take a walk around parts of the UK and there's no way you can be surprised that every once in a while you get a Jihadist that tries to mass murder people.

Actually, I've just fact checked this video Lincoln's Beard posted.

It was a celebratory march to celebrate the birthday of the Prophet Muhammad. It is their equivalent of Christmas. The banners read: 'We Love Muhammad-Mercy To All Mankind’.

There is nothing sinister about the march in that video. Nothing at all. Here's a link to a full article all about it:

ARTICLE

LincolnsBeard · 23-05-2017 03:49PM

Lady Spangles wrote: »

All that video shows is Muslim people parading through narrow streets. It's peaceful (in a noisy loudspeakers kind of way), there's no violence and there's no disorder.

The point is it's culturally isolated. It doesn't look like England. You cannot expect people like that to integrate into 'society' when you have mass migration on such a level as to form seperate societies.

You would not want to live there. You can feign ignorance, and say everybody is obeying the law and it's all fine and dandy, but it's a cultural colonisation of an area for the worse.

Lady Spangles wrote: »

Are you just worried by things you don't understand?

What is it about Islam I don't understand? Please do tell me, seeing as you are so enlightened.

Jamiekelly · 23-05-2017 03:50PM

Looks like I need to do another clean out of my Facebook friends list. Nothing like a good terrorist attack to learn which local people are conspiracy swallowers and reality deniers.

A parent with 2 daughters sharing links to false flag articles that make infowars look professional. Was very close to calling her an unfit mother who should be ashamed of herself. This seems to be a regular thing with every new attack.

Are people in this country really so gullible?

tastyt · 23-05-2017 03:51PM

It always amazes me the amount of people who are still willing to come out on terrible nights like this and defend whats basic murder.

And nobody wants to hear " oh wer not defending it but all muslims arent bad ".
So what? The bad ones are a large enough group to be causing bloodshed and terrorism throughout Europe so its unfortunate that good muslims will have to suffer for it.

As somebody said, strict Islamic beliefs are incompatible with western living .

Its time to stop mass immigration, and yes get out of their countries too, the west are not the police of the world.

If somebody argues that it wont work and we havevto get to the root of the issue then yes lets get to the root of it but protect your own people first. We need strong leaders who can resist the do gooder nonsense and make people in Europe feel safe in their own cities .

Wer all sick of trying to be politically correct and bend over backwards for a culture that wont move an inch or gives a **** about our beliefs

Terrorist Attack in Manchester (Read MOD WARNING in OP Updated 24/05/2017))

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