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Terrorist Attack in Manchester (Read MOD WARNING in OP Updated 24/05/2017))

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Comments

  • #1052
    NinjaKirby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 221 ✭✭NinjaKirby


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    So tell us what we can do?

    Nothing.

    We are sliding into a situation that is only going to get worse.

    Eventually there will be either an attack that is so bad it breaks the spirit of the people or there will be so many attacks that the people are afraid to go outside.

    At which point the general public will turn to more "right wing" extremists, vote them into power and let them do whatever it is they think will work.

    For me, I am just saying we can't blame Muslims for this. It's wrong to do that.

    When I say that it feels like trying to break up a fight that will inevitably boil over.

    I get that people will think "well I'm not just going to sit here and do nothing" but what if doing something involves becoming as bad, as ideologically driven, as radicalized or as extreme as the people you want to stop?

    22 people go to a concert hoping to have a nice night out and they get blown up and never come home. For what? How can you even begin to respond to that?

    The truth is that we are f*cked.


  • #1053
    muppetshow
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 56 ✭✭muppetshow


    Fr_Dougal wrote: »
    Blaming Islam for these bombings is like blaming Catholism for the IRA bombings.

    Terrorists are terrorsists. Most of these terrorist scumbags are well known to drink and not obey Islam.

    Known to drink and not obey Islam?
    Sorry,but how many christians drink and dont obey the bible?Do they blow themselves up and kill innocent children because of it?
    These terrorists are driven by the words in the quran,word for word.


  • #1054
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,387 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    Thomas__ wrote: »
    Welcome to my ignore list.

    Oh burn. You ignore me if you want but I'll continue to call you out when you post as excitedly as you have been this morning.

    Sickening.


  • #1055
    Hank Scorpio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,631 ✭✭✭✭Hank Scorpio


    jacksie66 wrote: »
    Yet he's just signed a massive weapons deal with Saudi Arabia, who's weapons will be used to kill children and families in Yemen. Trump is a disgusting hypocrite, and I used to support him..

    Hillary knew it way back when. The US connection with the Saudi's is disgusting.

    "we need to use our diplomatic and more traditional intelligence
    >> assets to bring pressure on the governments of Qatar and Saudi Arabia,
    >> which are providing clandestine financial and logistic support to ISIL and
    >> other radical Sunni groups in the region. "

    https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/3774


  • #1056
    punk_one82
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭punk_one82


    NinjaKirby wrote: »
    Nothing.

    We are sliding into a situation that is only going to get worse.

    Eventually there will be either an attack that is so bad it breaks the spirit of the people or there will be so many attacks that the people are afraid to go outside.

    At which point the general public will turn to more "right wing" extremists, vote them into power and let them do whatever it is they think will work.

    For me, I am just saying we can't blame Muslims for this. It's wrong to do that.

    When I say that it feels like trying to break up a fight that will inevitably boil over.

    I get that people will think "well I'm not just going to sit here and do nothing" but what if doing something involves becoming as bad, as ideologically driven, as radicalized or as extreme as the people you want to stop?

    22 people go to a concert hoping to have a nice night out and they get blown up and never come home. For what? How can you even begin to respond to that?

    The truth is that we are f*cked.

    Yeah, the world has never dealt with situations worse than this before...especially not in the last century...


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  • #1057
    Quazzie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,679 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It reads like you don't even know what group carried out the attack. Also they ****ed it up because they were brainless bastards and parked in the wrong place. Obviously you'll pretend that that means I'm excusing them/the attack because you're disingenuous at best.
    How am I disingenuous? I am simply pointing that labeling the IRA as something different than what happened last night is entirely hypocritical at best. Nevermind tho, the hypocrite appears to have crawled back under his rock so it's all ok.


  • #1058
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ricero wrote: »
    Shame on merkel ! Blood all over europe on her hands !

    It's a sorry state of affairs when you dont know if this is a parody or not.


  • #1059
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,387 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    Quazzie wrote: »
    How am I disingenuous? I am simply pointing that labeling the IRA as something different than what happened last night is entirely hypocritical at best.

    By attributing a bombing that they had nothing to do with to them. It's not like there wasn't loads of bombs that you could have accurately blamed the provos for yet you picked one they didn't do. Strange that and it shows a complete lack of understanding about the subject.

    Maybe best to do a bit of reading before posting about it again.


  • #1060
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,249 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    NinjaKirby wrote: »
    Nothing.

    We are sliding into a situation that is only going to get worse.

    Eventually there will be either an attack that is so bad it breaks the spirit of the people or there will be so many attacks that the people are afraid to go outside.

    At which point the general public will turn to more "right wing" extremists, vote them into power and let them do whatever it is they think will work.

    For me, I am just saying we can't blame Muslims for this. It's wrong to do that.

    When I say that it feels like trying to break up a fight that will inevitably boil over.

    I get that people will think "well I'm not just going to sit here and do nothing" but what if doing something involves becoming as bad, as ideologically driven, as radicalized or as extreme as the people you want to stop?

    22 people go to a concert hoping to have a nice night out and they get blown up and never come home. For what? How can you even begin to respond to that?

    The truth is that we are f*cked.
    There are a small number of monsters Coordinating these attacks. These people need to be investigated and prosecuted.

    Targeted investigation using intelligence and proper procedures will limit the threat.

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • #1061
    Snickers Man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭Snickers Man


    BPKS wrote: »
    Not even 21 years ago, the IRA detonated a huge bomb not 200 metres from last nights attack. Try not to re-write history.

    Not to justify the IRA's actions but its Manchester bomb was hardly a no-warning suicide bomb packed with small metal objects deliberately designed to kill and maim kids, was it? It was intended to destroy property and cause economic hardship, which it did.

    Slight difference in focus.


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  • #1062
    muppetshow
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 56 ✭✭muppetshow


    Akrasia wrote: »
    There are a small number of monsters Coordinating these attacks. These people need to be investigated and prosecuted.

    Targeted investigation using intelligence and proper procedures will limit the threat.

    Yes there are 10000 potential terrorist in Germany alone,good luck with that.


  • #1063
    Snickers Man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭Snickers Man


    Omackeral wrote: »
    It's a sorry state of affairs when you dont know if this is a parody or not.

    This is ridiculous! Most of Britain's Islamic immigrants are from the Commonwealth, not the EU.


  • #1064
    BPKS
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,019 ✭✭✭✭BPKS


    Walter H Price wrote: »
    The bomb is the same , the act of killing innocents its equally repugnant ... the point i was making and you are choosing to ignore because it doesn't fit the liberal narrative is that the IRA , ETA etc... Had a political grievance , there was an actual physical reason behind those attacks something that could be addressed sat around a table and negotiated , that's how we got the Goodmfriday agreement.

    The IRA bombing campaign in the UK is an absolute stain on the history of Ireland and republicanism , but you cannot argue that it was politically not religiously motivated , they didn't bomb Brighton , Manchester , Birmingham etc to kill protestants they did it to try and force the hand of the British government into negotiating a solution to the issues in the North.

    Who do we get around a table to call a ceasefire to a fking Jihad ? its a war on a culture a way of life there is no literally no political solution here in terms of negotiating a deal with the other side

    I suppose the point I was trying to make, and probably maybe making it badly, is that when I heard of the bomb in the MEN last night, I immediately thought of the 1996 IRA bomb around the corner. Just because of the location of it.

    Obviously a different outcome in terms of human damage and a different modus opperandi, but Irish people planted that bomb and its not that long ago it happened.

    Now I'm not sure but I dont remember feeling any massive shame as an Irish person about it. Its was a case of, Meh - these things happened and we were used of it.

    Unfortunately my kids are now growing up in an era when we are not surprised by the type of acts we have seen throughout Europe in the last 15 years.

    Just that the terrorists are Muslims now when they were Irish (of both persuasions) when I was growing up.


  • #1065
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,387 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    muppetshow wrote: »
    Yes there is 10000 potential terrorist in Germany alone,good luck with that.

    Surely over 80 million 'potential' terrorists in Germany.


  • #1066
    Widdershins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    This. My father worked as a reporter for RTE for many years and he experienced one or two bombs up close, I believe while covering Northern Ireland. And he's told me that it changed his entire view on everything from "please evacuate calmly" to the derision deserting soldiers faced, accusations of cowardice etc - according to him, a large explosion up close is something that you feel right down to the very atoms of your bones, and you'll have run a thousand miles away from that before your brain is even aware that your legs have started moving, it's a totally primal and instinctive reaction.

    If even trained soldiers have difficulty suppressing that basic instinct, civilians who've had a couple of fire drill type lessons in school wouldn't stand a chance. It's just one of those things.

    I'm not purely talking about massive explosions, HP. Crushes happen for various other reasons and ''a few fire drill type lessons'' or however you wish to describe them certainly wouldn't *hurt*. The point is not to teach people to hang around pointlessly so some official can do a headcount.

    Thinking you can run through and over people in a very congested crowd just slows you and everyone else down. It doesn't get you out quicker unless you're one of the very few lucky ones. If you can get your brain to slow down just enough to think and assess you have a chance of finding a way out of the situation that panic would cause you to overlook.


  • #1067
    BlinkingLights
    Closed Accounts Posts: 910 ✭✭✭BlinkingLights


    It's a vile and sickening attack and is just utterly senseless.

    Whatever the screwed-up religious or political ideology behind these, it needs to be tackled.

    The common thread I'm seeing through all of these attacks, including the ones inspired by radical Islam, neonazism/right wing extremism and even some of the school shootings is : online radicalisation and social isolation.

    You've often got either socially isolated or otherwise dysfunctional individuals who are feeding into and from a vortex of a twisted ideology (frequently but not always ideologies framed as radical political Islam) that is simply being facilitated and accelerated by online technology. It's not being caused by online technology, just accelerate- this kind of stuff has happened for as long as there has been language and printing presses.

    We need to tackle the psychology behind it and ensure that people are connected to the broader community and not just living in bubbles.

    I genuinely think we need to deal with the notion of groups isolating themselves - it's very important to socialise kids and adults and ensure they don't fall into the trap of "us" vs "them". We are all "us".

    Extreme security and online filtering really is a bit like locking your house without tackling the cause of a crime wave.

    I don't know exactly what social and psychological interventions could be used but we need to start dealing with this in a much more serious way.


  • #1068
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,079 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    British passport, no such thing as an English one. But yes, no one would argue that Moeen Ali is not English because he can't trace his roots back to the Angles



    Most of this can be traced back to 1979. The Iranian revolution and the creation of the first Islamic theocracy, the Grand Mosque Siege and the Russian invasion of Afghanistan.

    Abdullah Yusuf Azzam is considered the Father of Modern Jihad

    The Russians in Afghanistan led to "friendly" American military landing in Saudi to "help" the saudis, however the americans presence in Saudi was deemed just as offensive (drinking, prostitutes, drugs )as the Russsians. Saudis are two faced hypocrites and they did 911!


  • #1069
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    This is sickening. Equally sickening is the desire on one side to stick their heads in the sand and the opposite side's glee in another opportunity to point at something that justifies their right-wing agenda. Then there's the inevitable exploitation of the incident by the state to grant themselves more powers to spy on citizens.

    The problem with the discourse on this is that few are offering any useful solutions. Mostly you hear, "Ah now, lets not get carried away", "Close the borders!" and "We need to monitor all your online activities". That's a bit simplistic but it covers most of what I see online. None of these are workable or desirable.

    What bugs me most is that in most of these attacks, the perpetrator is already known to anti-terrorism security services. We hear that they've been on the radar for some time. That they've been in contact with some other known terrorists. That they've been participating on various jihadi message boards. Basically, it seems to me that these types of people can be identified before they go boom.

    Surely there has to be a way of apprehending these ****ers when it's obvious that they're up to no good. I'm not talking about internment here either. There has to be a legal means where these guys could be charged with something small early on and as a condition of their release forbidden from association with other jihadis. This won't stop a lone wolf attack but these are a tiny minority. As I said, these attackers are almost always in contact with other known terrorists either in person or online. They are distinguishable from ordinary muslims who just want to get on their lives.

    There really needs to be a better solution to this other than letting people with jihadi sympathies walk around freely without at least some serious active monitoring.


  • #1070
    biko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,219 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Deport all relatives of the bomber.
    You will find that whole families suddenly will care intensely whether one of them starts getting radicalised.


  • #1071
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Jayop wrote: »
    By attributing a bombing that they had nothing to do with to them. It's not like there wasn't loads of bombs that you could have accurately blamed the provos for yet you picked one they didn't do. Strange that and it shows a complete lack of understanding about the subject.

    Maybe best to do a bit of reading before posting about it again.

    All dissident republican terrorists are IRA.
    There were many splits over the years, but the are all originally IRA.


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  • #1072
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,079 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    ricero wrote: »
    Got to say trumps words this morning were touching and bang on the money. Its time we attack and not wait to be victims anymore. Time for world leaders to come together and send troops in to kill isis. Once the head is cut off we can get the rest of these losers throughout europe

    there are too many heads


  • #1073
    Thomas__
    Closed Accounts Posts: 618 ✭✭✭Thomas__


    Balmed Out wrote: »
    Thomas__ wrote: »
    The Provo-Terrorist got the wrong street name when he called the Police to give the warning.

    An innocent mistake ,why would you give him the benefit of the doubt, the murdering scum gave the wrong street name.
    No benefit of the doubt, this was that turned out from the investigation on the Omagh bombing.


  • #1074
    Beefy78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,166 ✭✭✭Beefy78


    I just don't understand the mentality of someone planning a terrorist attack like this, looking down the list of upcoming events and choosing the one full of kids. Kids man, FFS.

    Surely an attack like this can only upset & anger the moderate majority in the Muslim community as it does the rest of us.


  • #1075
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,854 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Snickers Man wrote: »
    Not to justify the IRA's actions but its Manchester bomb was hardly a no-warning suicide bomb packed with small metal objects deliberately designed to kill and maim kids, was it? It was intended to destroy property and cause economic hardship, which it did.

    Slight difference in focus.
    Jayop wrote: »
    By attributing a bombing that they had nothing to do with to them. It's not like there wasn't loads of bombs that you could have accurately blamed the provos for yet you picked one they didn't do. Strange that and it shows a complete lack of understanding about the subject.

    Maybe best to do a bit of reading before posting about it again.


    I would have thought it better if people just stopped defending the IRA for one day given what happened last night and the parallels it draws for so many people. The nuances and niceties of the IRA being a better class of terrorists cold-blooded murderers can wait for a more opportune time.


  • #1076
    Tayschren
    Closed Accounts Posts: 186 ✭✭Tayschren


    Humans are capable of some horrible ****


  • #1077
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Hank Scorpio wrote: »
    Hillary knew it way back when. The US connection with the Saudi's is disgusting.

    "we need to use our diplomatic and more traditional intelligence
    >> assets to bring pressure on the governments of Qatar and Saudi Arabia,
    >> which are providing clandestine financial and logistic support to ISIL and
    >> other radical Sunni groups in the region. "

    https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/3774
    At what stage does the b-b-b-but Hillary deflection end with you?
    Quazzie wrote: »
    How am I disingenuous? I am simply pointing that labeling the IRA as something different than what happened last night is entirely hypocritical at best. Nevermind tho, the hypocrite appears to have crawled back under his rock so it's all ok.
    "The IRA" I suppose being the most obvious bit.


  • #1078
    SnakePlissken
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭SnakePlissken


    Jayop wrote: »
    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    It will be interesting to see how May and Corbyn respond to this.

    Corbyn needs to condemn it in the strongest possible terms, no wishy-washy stuff about UK foreign policy etc.

    Why not? UK foreign policy as well as that of many other EU countries and the USA are the root cause of these attacks. If you spend decades ****ting on a large part of the world then don't be surprised when some of them decide to **** back.

    You can't argue that these attacks were perpetrated by British nationals and so halting immigration will not work, whilst with the other hand blame the attacks on foreign policy in the middle East.


  • #1079
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,079 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    wonderfullife wrote: »
    It's extremely unlikely.

    These people want fame/infamy for attacking the powerhouses they feel are occupying forces in "their lands".

    Even ISIS know if you start bombing countries like Ireland and Switzerland it will erode their cause. People expect them to attack London, New York and Paris. If they start bombing Dublin and Bern it'll be the beginning of the end for them.

    Now, a homegrown radical Irish Muslim terrorist is, of course, likely at some point but they'd get the boat over and do their evil in the UK.

    I think all your reasons we won't be attacked make an attack seem all the more likely.


  • #1080
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Isis are not only claiming responsibility for the attach now but are sickeningly celebrating it.

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/808077/Manchester-terror-bombing-explosion-attack-Ariana-Grande-manchester-arena-ISIS-twitter


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  • #1081
    Cantona's Collars
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭Cantona's Collars


    Eyewitness reports on the news say the security was shocking, zero checks on any bags going into the venue.


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