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Dairy chit chat II

1…8485878990…328

Comments

  • #2582
    jaymla627
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,132 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    thisyear wrote: »
    My two bits and just being careful that I don't know the herd!
    Ruminant Nutrition is mostly maths, lots of nutritionists try to justify existence with wonderful diets and magic potions but in most cases doing the maths gets you there in grazing systems.
    Cow needs 5ufl for maintenance and 0.44ufl for every litre milk. Can't remember the solids of that litre but something like 3.4 and 4.2. So you have high yielding herd, question is how much of energy demand will grass give. Assume cow can eat 18kg DM means grass is supplying about 18-19ufl. (Leafy grass Is 1.05ufl/kg). So that means there is 13-14ufl for milk production from grass which is a little over 30l per cow. If yielding higher than that need to supplement to increase dmi or the cow will milk off her back (1bc is 150Ufl)and it's the mobilising of fat that can cause the fert problems. So for 35l need another 2.2ufl but 1kg of ration will replace about 0.5kg of grass intake so every 1kg only increases diet ufl by about .5ufl hence the old 1:1 response line. So to support cow diet needs nearly 5kg concentrate and that's where problems can come if starch based as with sugar in grass and starch it's a fair loading on rumen. However if you think this is issue lift some cow's feet and if you feel heat between the claws it might be touch of laminitis which is sub clinical acidosis. Supplement with fibre based energy like pulp or gluten will help.
    On fertility I will say this. Travelled a good bit and reality is great feeding regimes won't make up for genetic problem. Only have to look to Danes for that. Average yield 10000kgs,average lactation per cow 2.1 ie in life only sells 21000kgs. Think of replacement needed to maintain herd size. Hence why I use ebi and aim for 500kg ms in grass system and aiming for 5.5 lactation per cow.
    That's my bit and as I said before each to their own!!!! It's your herd at the end of the day!

    The question is then why aren't the likes of curtins etc who are following your above gospel to the word re grass getting and maintaining these 30 litre plus yields of grass and minimial concentrates, the real world on the farm figures are grass might be for a sweet spot of 3-4 weeks somewhere near capable of suppprting 30 litres but then it tails down to 20-24litres at best....
    Why you feel the need to slate high yielding cows every time you post is getting a tad cumbersome, a lot of 8000 litre plus ladies here doing the business of grass and 1.5 ton of meal and their shock horror going back in calf every year and aren't going around resembling coat hangers


  • #2583
    pedigree 6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭pedigree 6


    Just going to throw this out here.

    Is there something to be said for the higher the calcium percentage in grass the more litres a cow is able to produce off that grass?


  • #2584
    kowtow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭kowtow


    thisyear wrote: »
    My two bits and just being careful that I don't know the herd!
    Ruminant Nutrition is mostly maths, lots of nutritionists try to justify existence with wonderful diets and magic potions but in most cases doing the maths gets you there in grazing systems.
    Cow needs 5ufl for maintenance and 0.44ufl for every litre milk. Can't remember the solids of that litre but something like 3.4 and 4.2. So you have high yielding herd, question is how much of energy demand will grass give. Assume cow can eat 18kg DM means grass is supplying about 18-19ufl. (Leafy grass Is 1.05ufl/kg). So that means there is 13-14ufl for milk production from grass which is a little over 30l per cow. If yielding higher than that need to supplement to increase dmi or the cow will milk off her back (1bc is 150Ufl)and it's the mobilising of fat that can cause the fert problems. So for 35l need another 2.2ufl but 1kg of ration will replace about 0.5kg of grass intake so every 1kg only increases diet ufl by about .5ufl hence the old 1:1 response line. So to support cow diet needs nearly 5kg concentrate and that's where problems can come if starch based as with sugar in grass and starch it's a fair loading on rumen. However if you think this is issue lift some cow's feet and if you feel heat between the claws it might be touch of laminitis which is sub clinical acidosis. Supplement with fibre based energy like pulp or gluten will help.
    On fertility I will say this. Travelled a good bit and reality is great feeding regimes won't make up for genetic problem. Only have to look to Danes for that. Average yield 10000kgs,average lactation per cow 2.1 ie in life only sells 21000kgs. Think of replacement needed to maintain herd size. Hence why I use ebi and aim for 500kg ms in grass system and aiming for 5.5 lactation per cow.
    That's my bit and as I said before each to their own!!!! It's your herd at the end of the day!

    So the "old 1:1 response line" even at it's simplest should be "1 litre to 1 kilo, plus whatever the other girl produces from the grass surplus created by substitution"....?


  • #2585
    thisyear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 160 ✭✭thisyear


    kowtow wrote: »
    thisyear wrote: »
    My two bits and just being careful that I don't know the herd!
    Ruminant Nutrition is mostly maths, lots of nutritionists try to justify existence with wonderful diets and magic potions but in most cases doing the maths gets you there in grazing systems.
    Cow needs 5ufl for maintenance and 0.44ufl for every litre milk. Can't remember the solids of that litre but something like 3.4 and 4.2. So you have high yielding herd, question is how much of energy demand will grass give. Assume cow can eat 18kg DM means grass is supplying about 18-19ufl. (Leafy grass Is 1.05ufl/kg). So that means there is 13-14ufl for milk production from grass which is a little over 30l per cow. If yielding higher than that need to supplement to increase dmi or the cow will milk off her back (1bc is 150Ufl)and it's the mobilising of fat that can cause the fert problems. So for 35l need another 2.2ufl but 1kg of ration will replace about 0.5kg of grass intake so every 1kg only increases diet ufl by about .5ufl hence the old 1:1 response line. So to support cow diet needs nearly 5kg concentrate and that's where problems can come if starch based as with sugar in grass and starch it's a fair loading on rumen. However if you think this is issue lift some cow's feet and if you feel heat between the claws it might be touch of laminitis which is sub clinical acidosis. Supplement with fibre based energy like pulp or gluten will help.
    On fertility I will say this. Travelled a good bit and reality is great feeding regimes won't make up for genetic problem. Only have to look to Danes for that. Average yield 10000kgs,average lactation per cow 2.1 ie in life only sells 21000kgs. Think of replacement needed to maintain herd size. Hence why I use ebi and aim for 500kg ms in grass system and aiming for 5.5 lactation per cow.
    That's my bit and as I said before each to their own!!!! It's your herd at the end of the day!

    So the "old 1:1 response line" even at it's simplest should be "1 litre to 1 kilo, plus whatever the other girl produces from the grass surplus created by substitution"....?
    One way of looking at it!!


  • #2586
    RedPeppers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 606 ✭✭✭RedPeppers


    Noticied a cow here this morning with dropping ear drooling basically one side of her face had paralysis thought it was listeriosis but had vet out and he ruled that out said she got the paralysis from been pucked in side of the head anyone come across this? He said recovery is slow


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  • #2587
    whelan2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,807 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    RedPeppers wrote: »
    Noticied a cow here this morning with dropping ear drooling basically one side of her face had paralysis thought it was listeriosis but had vet out and he ruled that out said she got the paralysis from been pucked in side of the head anyone come across this? He said recovery is slow

    Meningitis?


  • #2588
    yewtree
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 811 ✭✭✭yewtree


    jaymla627 wrote: »
    The question is then why aren't the likes of curtins etc who are following your above gospel to the word re grass getting and maintaining these 30 litre plus yields of grass and minimial concentrates, the real world on the farm figures are grass might be for a sweet spot of 3-4 weeks somewhere near capable of suppprting 30 litres but then it tails down to 20-24litres at best....
    Why you feel the need to slate high yielding cows every time you post is getting a tad cumbersome, a lot of 8000 litre plus ladies here doing the business of grass and 1.5 ton of meal and their shock horror going back in calf every year and aren't going around resembling coat hangers

    In fairness high production herds aren't been slated. On grass based system maintaining grass quality and utilisation are the most important considerations
    In curtains they focus on production/ha with the goal of increasing profit/ha
    We spend hours going round in circles talking about production/cow but never discuss increasing profit/ha or cash generated.
    There are Oad herds making more money than guys producing 8000 litres/cow


  • #2589
    RedPeppers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 606 ✭✭✭RedPeppers


    whelan2 wrote: »
    Meningitis?

    Is listeriosis not a form of meningitis?


  • #2590
    freedominacup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭freedominacup


    Who had the link a while ago about raw milk and allergies? Could you post the link again please?


  • #2591
    Waffletraktor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,445 ✭✭✭Waffletraktor


    freedominacup wrote: »
    Who had the link a while ago about raw milk and allergies? Could you post the link again please?

    pedigree6 iirc


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  • #2592
    pedigree 6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭pedigree 6


    Waffletraktor wrote: »
    pedigree6 iirc

    I can hardly remember what I said 5 minutes ago let alone something I posted here months ago.

    Maybe go through my history of posts or just Google it?

    Sorry!:(

    Edit: it could also have been kowtow or farmer ed.


  • #2593
    Waffletraktor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,445 ✭✭✭Waffletraktor


    pedigree 6 wrote: »
    I can hardly remember what I said 5 minutes ago let alone something I posted here months ago.

    Maybe go through my history of posts or just Google it?

    Sorry!:(

    Edit: it could also have been kowtow or farmer ed.

    Was one of your voyages of google discovery, to do with new borns/astmha and things.
    Sorry, was the sherrif Budford who kicked it off, you just clogged up the back page:p
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057631185


  • #2594
    pedigree 6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭pedigree 6


    Waffletraktor wrote: »
    Was one of your voyages of google discovery, to do with new borns/astmha and things.

    I have you now.

    Buford posted that too.
    That one was about some Amish or Mennonite community in America.
    That study came to the conclusion that it was the bugs on farm environment that was more beneficial to the growing kids immunity than the "raw" milk specifically.

    I guess a talk with someone in Glanbia about what they take out of the milk and what they put back in would be constructive but then how do you know what good bugs you kill.

    There was another study I found that probiotic yoghurt or drinks should not be given to kids less than 14 years of age as it actually killed some of the bad bugs needed to give them immunity and asthma was more prevalent in these kids.

    You can find ANYTHING on Google.

    Edit: just seen above edit on post.


  • #2595
    greysides
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,046 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    RedPeppers wrote: »
    Is listeriosis not a form of meningitis?

    Listeria monocytogenes is the causal micro-organism in most cases so Listeriosis or Listereal meningitis.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • #2596
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,259 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Meningitis means, swelling of the brain, AFAIK. It in itself is not a disease but a symptom, like jaundice usually pertaining to the liver.


  • #2597
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,728 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    yewtree wrote: »
    In fairness high production herds aren't been slated. On grass based system maintaining grass quality and utilisation are the most important considerations
    In curtains they focus on production/ha with the goal of increasing profit/ha
    We spend hours going round in circles talking about production/cow but never discuss increasing profit/ha or cash generated.
    There are Oad herds making more money than guys producing 8000 litres/cow

    There's also 8 k herds making substantially more than oad herds


  • #2598
    C0N0R
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,960 ✭✭✭C0N0R


    mahoney_j wrote: »
    yewtree wrote: »
    In fairness high production herds aren't been slated. On grass based system maintaining grass quality and utilisation are the most important considerations
    In curtains they focus on production/ha with the goal of increasing profit/ha
    We spend hours going round in circles talking about production/cow but never discuss increasing profit/ha or cash generated.
    There are Oad herds making more money than guys producing 8000 litres/cow

    There's also 8 k herds making substantially more than oad herds

    No matter what road you go down you have to maximise your profitability and keep control of your costs. An efficient high input system will make more money than an inefficent low input system and visa versa.


  • #2599
    whelan2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,807 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    RedPeppers wrote: »
    Is listeriosis not a form of meningitis?

    How is she now. Did the vet treat her with anything?


  • #2600
    Never wrestle with pigs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,451 ✭✭✭Never wrestle with pigs


    RedPeppers wrote: »
    Is listeriosis not a form of meningitis?

    Had one a few months ago. She was bulling in the shed. She was fine in every way no temp or anything, eating and chewing cud. But she had a dropped ear and tilted her head to the side for a good month afterwards.


  • #2601
    blackdog1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,186 ✭✭✭blackdog1


    Anyone use the Silostop Max silage sheet?. I am seriously thinking of getting this next year. Normally use the clear plastic cover followed by a normal black plastic silage sheet but this year I found it a pain rolling both sheets out trying to pin 1 and put the other on top. Would be much handier if the 2 came in a roll together.


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  • #2602
    Keepgrowing
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭Keepgrowing


    blackdog1 wrote: »
    Anyone use the Silostop Max silage sheet?. I am seriously thinking of getting this next year. Normally use the clear plastic cover followed by a normal black plastic silage sheet but this year I found it a pain rolling both sheets out trying to pin 1 and put the other on top. Would be much handier if the 2 came in a roll together.

    Is this a roll that has 2 sheets pre packed?
    I'd buy that too. Where are they available?


  • #2603
    blackdog1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,186 ✭✭✭blackdog1


    Keepgrowing wrote:
    Is this a roll that has 2 sheets pre packed? I'd buy that too. Where are they available?


    Yea think that's the one. Think I'm going to check them out if they are at the ploughing this year. Only concern I have is it might not stick to the silage as well as the regular clear plastic as it would be more rigid as it's connected to the black. Pit would have to be rolled very well to get the same result.


  • #2604
    Wildsurfer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,572 ✭✭✭Wildsurfer


    blackdog1 wrote: »
    Yea think that's the one. Think I'm going to check them out if they are at the ploughing this year. Only concern I have is it might not stick to the silage as well as the regular clear plastic as it would be more rigid as it's connected to the black. Pit would have to be rolled very well to get the same result.
    I used that clear plastic that was supposed to cling to the the contours of silage to create a seal. Found it a complete waste of time, and really messy when rolling back at feed out time. Used that heavier plastic last year but you'd still need a second ordinary sheet underneath it for a perfect seal.


  • #2605
    visatorro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,860 ✭✭✭visatorro


    Never seen clear plastic used before. Just use two layers of black plastic. Covering the pit isn't an issue because Iv help. Stripping the pit for second cut, just pull back one layer at a time. Find it slightly manageable on my own!


  • #2606
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    https://www.teagasc.ie/news--events/national-events/events/national-dairy-open-day.php

    The blurb promoting the open day in Moorepark on 4th of July.


  • #2607
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    I had a lucky escape today with a weanling heifer. I normally feed them in the morning but I was waiting for a delivery of ration so I gave a quick look and all looked well, lying down chewing the cud.

    I went to feed them this evening and one was bloated so I brought her in and rang the vet. He told me to give her 80 to 100mls of washing up liquid and stick a needle in to vent the gas. Just checked her again now and she seems fine but I'll check her again during the night.

    I never heard of using washing up liquid before but it seems to work anyway.


  • #2608
    visatorro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,860 ✭✭✭visatorro


    Buford T. Justice V wrote: »
    I had a lucky escape today with a weanling heifer. I normally feed them in the morning but I was waiting for a delivery of ration so I gave a quick look and all looked well, lying down chewing the cud.

    I went to feed them this evening and one was bloated so I brought her in and rang the vet. He told me to give her 80 to 100mls of washing up liquid and stick a needle in to vent the gas. Just checked her again now and she seems fine but I'll check her again during the night.

    I never heard of using washing up liquid before but it seems to work anyway.

    Cooking oil the old crowd use here.


  • #2609
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    visatorro wrote: »
    Cooking oil the old crowd use here.

    Yeah, that's what I would usually use as well. Heifer flying this morning, just wondering now what caused it.


  • #2610
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    It's not going to be popular but there's a bit of research going on into GM ryegrasses

    http://www.agresearch.co.nz/news/grasses-of-the-future-offer-huge-benefits/


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  • #2611
    boggerman1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭boggerman1


    We are all told to budget for this and that onthe comic and by teagasc.well for me thats gone out the window for me today.the bulk tank could be i trouble losing gas.all the outer pipes are fine but the guy i have who services it reckons there must be a leaking coil in the body of it.i had thought the tank was under a bit of pressure but when i read the esb meter i got some land.usually the meter would use 4800 approx per billing cycle but this time it was double.the compressor was eating up power to compensate for the gas leaking and not cutting out when it should.so much for budgeting anyhow.off to look out for a 5000 ish tank.ice hank i have.stick with ice or go direct expansion?


This discussion has been closed.
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