Dairy chit chat II

Mooooo

whelan2 wrote: »

Many left to calve?

5 left now, one doesn't have much of a springing hopefully will just bag up quickly and not be too much longer. If I didn't leave the bull in they wouldn't be calving till next oct so getting a few months extra milk anyway

Timmaay

15 left here still, all the drys have been grazing steamy grass on the outfarm since March, and I've given up on dry cow minerals also, and utterly zero problems with any cows who have calved since! Lost 2 calves with Crypto in the sheds about 10 days ago, 10born since and none of them have seen a shed, got a well fenced and sheltered orchard here and they are running around with the hens and a pet pig ha. I'm flatout bored and burnt out from calving dragging on now, but there is a hell of alot to be said for calving outside in this weather.

whelan2

Mooooo wrote: »

5 left now, one doesn't have much of a springing hopefully will just bag up quickly and not be too much longer. If I didn't leave the bull in they wouldn't be calving till next oct so getting a few months extra milk anyway

Free milk on grass over the summer. Happy days.

whelan2

Timmaay wrote: »

15 left here still, all the drys have been grazing steamy grass on the outfarm since March, and I've given up on dry cow minerals also, and utterly zero problems with any cows who have calved since! Lost 2 calves with Crypto in the sheds about 10 days ago, 10born since and none of them have seen a shed, got a well fenced and sheltered orchard here and they are running around with the hens and a pet pig ha. I'm flatout bored and burnt out from calving dragging on now, but there is a hell of alot to be said for calving outside in this weather.

Love calving outside,good for man and beast

Dwag

Mooooo wrote: »

Just pulled a dead aa bull from a heifer, third one this year with both. Front legs down, handled her a felt the head and was able to bring legs forward fine so was surprised when I got head out that calf was dead. Heifer seems ok stayed standing while I pulled the calf, didn't do much pushing, gave her a shot of oxytocin just to help her pass the cleaning

You're not calving them off grass, are you?

Mooooo

blackdog1 wrote: »

Have you an iodine problem? I had calves die last year when they shouldn't and since I put iodine into water calves are way hardy and no real problems.

I don't know the others were cows who were on silage, heifers were on kale and got cosicure boluses. More the presentation at calving the ones landed weren't too bad, a lot better than last year anyway but had crypto early on last year nearly broke me

Mooooo

Dwag wrote: »

You're not calving them off grass, are you?

The last few yeah, in a small paddock near yard that has hairy grass in it. This is the only one that has an issue of the ones calved outside. Calve all the autumn girls outside and on a grass diet and rarely a problem with them

Dwag

whelan2 wrote: »

Free milk on grass over the summer. Happy days.

??
Common misconception.

What's an acre worth to sell?
What's an acre worth to let?
Fertiliser?

Grand if inherited, I suppose.

(Not picking on you Whelan).

Dwag

Mooooo wrote: »

The last few yeah, in a small paddock near yard that has hairy grass in it. This is the only one that has an issue of the ones calved outside. Calve all the autumn girls outside and on a grass diet and rarely a problem with them

Stop.
Hay only, and a little maize if you have it.

Never calve off grass. Never. That lesson is burned on my brain.

Mooooo

Dwag wrote: »

??
Common misconception.

What's an acre worth to sell?
What's an acre worth to let?
Fertiliser?

Grand if inherited, I suppose.

(Not picking on you Whelan).

Well compared to heifers being carried with no output for the next 6 months it's better anyway but I take your point

charolais0153

Dwag wrote: »

Stop.
Hay only, and a little maize if you have it.

Never calve off grass. Never. That lesson is burned on my brain.

Dare I ask why:)

The part time boy

Dwag wrote: »

Mooooo wrote: »

The last few yeah, in a small paddock near yard that has hairy grass in it. This is the only one that has an issue of the ones calved outside. Calve all the autumn girls outside and on a grass diet and rarely a problem with them

Stop.
Hay only, and a little maize if you have it.

Never calve off grass. Never. That lesson is burned on my brain.

Always calved the late calvers on grass . Never had a problem

Dwag

charolais0153 wrote: »

Dare I ask why:)

I'm not sure about the science, but I do know that (green) hay, or any forage harvested when green and before ripe, is rich in phosphorus...

kowtow

This thread just sent me looking for the feed label for the first time ... mine doesn't have exact % just ingredients in descending order

16% dairy nut... Maize, Maize Gluten Feed Barley, Distillers Dried Grains, Rapeseed Meal, Wheat Feed, Soya (bean) hulls, Palm Kernel Expeller, Sugar Cane Molasses, Calcium Carbonate... etc.

trace elements including copper, 57g of calcined magnesite at 3kg.

Can one of you feed experts translate?

Dwag

The part time boy wrote: »

Always calved the late calvers on grass . Never had a problem

'There's a rotten limb in every tree'.

Mooooo

Dwag wrote: »

I'm not sure about the science, but I do know that (green) hay, or any forage harvested when green and before ripe, is rich in phosphorus...

The paddocks they have been on would be the lower indexes for k and got no slurry before hand, generally the dries would not be given the best of grass and would have no major issues when outside,

Dwag

kowtow wrote: »

This thread just sent me looking for the feed label for the first time ... mine doesn't have exact % just ingredients in descending order

16% dairy nut... Maize, Maize Gluten Feed Barley, Distillers Dried Grains, Rapeseed Meal, Wheat Feed, Soya (bean) hulls, Palm Kernel Expeller, Sugar Cane Molasses, Calcium Carbonate... etc.

trace elements including copper, 57g of calcined magnesite at 3kg.

Can one of you feed experts translate?

I'm not a feed expert by any means... but to translate...merde!






Dump maize gluten.
Dump distillers.
Dump rapeseed.
Dump wheat feed.
Dump PK expeller.
Dump molasses.

All you need is maize, barley (native if feeling patriotic), hi pro soya, soya hulls.

Bring overall pr to 12% if good grass management or 15% if otherwise...

Notify Coop of surge in production...

Dwag

Mooooo wrote: »

The paddocks they have been on would be the lower indexes for k and got no slurry before hand, generally the dries would not be given the best of grass and would have no major issues when outside,

I calve ayr. Cows and heifers are given absolute minimal surveillance, but their diet is.
Works for me.
I'll be working on irrigation tonight at 2 and I won't even bother looking at calvers...can't remember when we last assisted a calving.
Touch wood.

Signpost

I hope by irrigation you mean going for a slash after a few pints down the local

Dwag

Signpost wrote: »

I hope by irrigation you mean going for a slash after a few pints down the local

Ah no.
Off now irrigating. Lovely.

Mooooo

Dwag wrote: »

Ah no.
Off now irrigating. Lovely.

Night time to avoid evaporation losses? An automatic system possible or too costly?

Dwag

Mooooo wrote: »

Night time to avoid evaporation losses? An automatic system possible or too costly?

Nothing to do with evaporation I'm afraid.
I don't know of any automatic irrigation systems with reels and water cannons.

After a pass the reel must be tackled onto a tractor and moved to the next pass, and then the cannon pulled out...the reeling in of the cannon is automatic alright.
I'm going 24/7 as I'm 'borrowing' water from rivers. Pressure is on because of drought and trying to get out as much as I can before the rivers dry up...or we get caught by the water police.

Off changing reels now. Then organizing final head sprays...along with drawing in a lash of lucerne wraps...not to mention a few dairy cows and chucks. That's today sorted.

orm0nd

Dwag wrote: »

I'm not a feed expert by any means... but to translate...merde!






Dump maize gluten.
Dump distillers.
Dump rapeseed.
Dump wheat feed.
Dump PK expeller.
Dump molasses.

All you need is maize, barley (native if feeling patriotic), hi pro soya, soya hulls.

Bring overall pr to 12% if good grass management or 15% if otherwise...

Notify Coop of surge in production...

I'm no expert but I'd leave in a bit of rapeseed.

thisyear

orm0nd wrote: »

I'm no expert but I'd leave in a bit of rapeseed.

I used to do Nutrition in a previous life(no more so dont ask!!)

But this stuff really annoys me as lads loose so much times and money over this. Experience has shown me that the Ingredients dont really matter unless you are feeding huge levels and have massive energy issues in the diet. If you are getting a significant response to feed then look at your grassland management. As a % of diet it is way bigger % than any concentrates and needs to be right.

Buy your ration based on the cheapest price especially on grass. Ingredients dont really matter once they are balanced for energy (UFL) and protein. Ask the rep what is the UFL content and aim for 0.95UFL+ (1kg of air dried barely =1UFL). In simple terms the diet target for protein is 16% and grass has loads of it so go for low protein rations 12%-14%, balanced for minerals and drive on.

Byproducts tend to be cheapest(bar maybe barley) and are fine on grass. Dont be wasting money on rapeseed or soya unless it comes out cheapest on an LCR(least cost ration formulation). They are also fermentable energy sources so are much easier on the rumen and will lead to less sub clincial acidosis and lameness.

If you mix yourself byproducts all the way! Gluten and Distillers are good feeds and hulls are just fine once its balanced.

See the presentation below by UCD. They have been doing trials on this for years and are more into higher input systems if thats your fancy.

http://www.asaireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/3.-Tommy-Boland.pdf

sorry lads rant over and if you dont want to heed me no worries either, each man to his own!!!

cute geoge

Can i ask you
would you need to balance 50% barley 50% soya hulls for dairy cows milking off grass from late summer on

thisyear

Not really. Barley is slightly higher in energy but on grass youll probably see no difference unless real high yielders and energy is completely limiting in the diet. energy in the hulls is fermentable and the barley is from starch so harder on rumen. Reason millers include is to make a coarse ration look better and they struggle to get hulls to bind in the pellet at extremely high levels.

Once you hit the back end(sept), the energy level in the grass falls as the sugar content goes down(grass no longer trying to go to seed) so that's one of reasons why you see a response to the concentrates.

MF290

How are people getting on with bottom fill drinkers? have a good few to put down here and the father is more keen on them than the top fill due to heifers breaking the top fill ones. Are they more prone to leaking?

Dwag

thisyear wrote: »

I used to do Nutrition in a previous life(no more so dont ask!!)



Byproducts tend to be cheapest(bar maybe barley) and are fine on grass. Dont be wasting money on rapeseed or soya unless it comes out cheapest on an LCR(least cost ration formulation). They are also fermentable energy sources so are much easier on the rumen and will lead to less sub clincial acidosis and lameness.

If you mix yourself byproducts all the way! Gluten and Distillers are good feeds and hulls are just fine once its balanced.

Agree on balancing feed.

What protein source would you recommend to replace soya or rapeseed?
What do you think is the best source of energy?
When grass quality is very variable what's the best mix to maintain bcs and solids?
Likewise what would you recommend when grass is very rich and low in fibre?

Sorry for all the questions.

Dwag

First cut analysis results.

Ryegrass.
Pr 17.1
Ufl. .98
Dmd. 82
Dm 26

Clover/ryegrass mix.
Pr 19.9
Ufl .92
Dmd 80
Dm 22

Clover.
Pr. 22.2
Ufl .88
Dmd 82.2
Dm 20

Mooooo

Dwag wrote: »

First cut analysis results.

Ryegrass.
Pr 17.1
Ufl. .98
Dmd. 82
Dm 26

Clover/ryegrass mix.
Pr 19.9
Ufl .92
Dmd 80
Dm 22

Clover.
Pr. 22.2
Ufl .88
Dmd 82.2
Dm 20

When was it cut?