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READ MOD WARNING POST #1 BEFORE POSTING- Joshua Vs Klitschko

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    #902
    snowflaker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭snowflaker


    Joshua Points
    I think I'll watch the fight in Full as I've been asleep for half the day lol


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    #903
    vetinari
    Registered Users Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭vetinari


    I'll have to rewatch the first 4 rounds, no idea how anyone gave some of them to Klitschko. Not a whole lot happened in them but Joshua was throwing a lot more punches. It seemed like a tactic by Wlad to just take those rounds easy.


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    #904
    StringerBell
    Registered Users Posts: 14,036 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    Josh was throwing, and missing a lot more then Wlad who was scoring in those rounds, from my memory anyway. I had rounds 1 and 2 to Wlad, round 3 to AJ and round 4 to Wlad

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



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    #905
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Round 2 and 4 defo to Wlad in terms of the earlier rounds. I was really impressed by Wlad, really was outboxing him at stages. AJ will learn a lot from that fight.


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    #906
    MD1990
    Registered Users Posts: 11,740 ✭✭✭✭MD1990


    Joshua KO
    Morrison J wrote: »
    Ortiz v Pulev in the works. Exactly the kind of fight Ortiz needs to get his name more in the conversation for the really big fights.

    https://twitter.com/julianisjulius/status/858780544162832388

    Ortiz might not win that fight.

    His last few fights he has looked terrible.


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    #907
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,656 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Klitschko Points
    snowflaker wrote: »
    The Fury fight was awful. Klit was awful without any undue influence from Fury.

    And are people forgetting Fury's failed drugs test? He was stripped of the belts, so why give him any credit? I mean do Lance Armstrong's TdF victories still count in your book?

    In Lance Armstrong's case, it was simply the best cheat won. His main rival, for years, Ulrich, was also cheating. All of his main rivals were.

    If Fury did cheat it may well have increased his stamina, but it did not suddenly make him a skillful boxer. Wlad was bad against Fury mainly because of how Fury boxed. If Fury had not boxed so well, Wlad would have been confident to throw, and done to Fury what he did to so many others.

    Regarding Wlad not showing a killer instinct against Joshua, this overlooks Joshua actually using his head and making Wlad miss punches and block punches. I was proven wrong by Joshua. I think Wlad when he sees the fight will opt out of a rematch.


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    #908
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,656 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Klitschko Points
    Lukker- wrote: »
    There's no way of knowing really, Fury's excellent game plan also might have just totally nullified Wlad's strengths. .

    That is exactly what happened, his timing and use of his reach was excellent- he wasn't there to be hit most of the time. He took away Wlad's jab.
    The loss to Fury did motivate Klitschko, but i think Wlad felt more confident to throw against against Joshua because he did not present him with the awkward style of Fury, even though the risk if he was countered was much greater.


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    #909
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,656 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Klitschko Points
    Lukker- wrote: »
    His jab is definitely better than it was. Shot selection seems to have improved, as well as his head movement. His footwoork is much the same, basic plodding forward style and it'll be what costs him if he ever fights an in shape Fury. Fury has much better jab too.

    If Fury had knock out power i would agree, it's an easy night for him, but he doesn't. I think no matter how slick Fury is in that fight, it's inevitable Joshua would still get to Fury at some stage. Fury has been knocked down by lesser punches than Joshua, so i wouldn't be confident of him withstanding a solid punch from a hard hitter like Joshua


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    #910
    Morrison J
    Registered Users Posts: 3,852 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    Klitschko Points
    People really overplay the featherfisted Fury thing. He can knockout any of the top heavyweights. He doesn't ice people but you don't stop a guy as tough as Chisora if you've zero power in your punches. The same guy who went the distance with Whyte (who had Joshua rocked).


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    #911
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,683 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Joshua Points
    Fury with a solid beard would likely beat AJ on points or late stoppage in a competitive fight. For me there are just one too many instances of Fury being on queer steeet from much less heavy hitters than AJ.

    Wlad with a solid beard would annihilate AJ. Wlad knows he is vulnerable, and it affects his offence. Wlad with a solid chin would be throwing much more spiteful shots.

    Btw, Fury is not feather fished, but he doesn't instill confidence in me with his punch delivery and power.

    I'm telling you..Wilder will be shown to be the real danger man. One clean shot to AJ and AJ won't make it. Same for Fury.

    You could really see the size difference between Bellew and Wilder the other night.


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    #912
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,656 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Klitschko Points
    Wilder is simply too crude to land something meaningful on Joshua before Joshua gets to him first. Wilder also has a suspect chin. He, as they say, has a punchers chance, but a half decent boxer easily negates that.

    Fury simply does not have the power to deter Joshua from coming forward. When was the last time he knocked someone clean out?
    Fury would likely be well ahead on points before being stopped. If only Vitali would announce he is coming out of retirement to avenge his brother's loss.
    He certainly looked pissed off after the fight on Saturday.


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    #913
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,683 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Joshua Points
    Come on...AJ is hardly sweet Pea. He can be tagged. I bet Wilder tags him. But, maybe AJ tags Wilder first. It's a toss up.

    Btw, you say Fury would likely be well ahead on points before AJ gets him out of there. You think Fury avoids getting hit clean for a fair few rds? I reckon it's more an early job. Fury's chances really increase the longer it goes. Anyway, Fury has been yet again shut down by AJ via twitter. Just train and get back to your fighting weight!


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    #914
    selectamatic
    Registered Users Posts: 3,895 ✭✭✭selectamatic


    Joshua Points
    Morrison J wrote: »
    People really overplay the featherfisted Fury thing. He can knockout any of the top heavyweights. He doesn't ice people but you don't stop a guy as tough as Chisora if you've zero power in your punches. The same guy who went the distance with Whyte (who had Joshua rocked).

    If we're going to apply that logic though I'd like to chime in with Kevin Johnson. He has a very good chin he literally stood in front of fury and took anything fury could throw and it didn't knock a stir outta him. An entire crowd in Belfast were booing by the end of the farcical fight.

    Joshua bombed him outta it in rd2.

    Edit walshb beat me to it: Also on the wilder point yes he could very much bomb any heavyweight outta it but he himself is a ko waiting to happen. Eric Molina gave him a big scare.


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    #915
    Too Tough To Die
    Registered Users Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭Too Tough To Die


    Klitschko Points
    snowflaker wrote: »
    The Fury fight was awful. Klit was awful without any undue influence from Fury.

    And are people forgetting Fury's failed drugs test? He was stripped of the belts, so why give him any credit? I mean do Lance Armstrong's TdF victories still count in your book?

    He wasn't stripped of the belts for testing positive for peds.

    He was not champion when he supposedly tested positive, this was months before the Wlad fight, so possibly unlikely he was on anything for that fight, if he was on anything at all. Hearing for that is coming up next week, i believe.


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    #916
    qwabercd
    Registered Users Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭qwabercd


    Joshua KO
    walshb wrote: »
    What has that got to do with what I said?

    He made Wlad look bad? I could just as easily reverse that and say that Wlad made Fury look bad...

    Do you just nitpick and argue for the sake of it?


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    #917
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,683 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Joshua Points
    qwabercd wrote: »
    Do you just nitpick and argue for the sake of it?

    No. I just call out BS when I see it...


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    #918
    Morrison J
    Registered Users Posts: 3,852 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    Klitschko Points
    selectamatic wrote: »
    If we're going to apply that logic though I'd like to chime in with Kevin Johnson. He has a very good chin he literally stood in front of fury and took anything fury could throw and it didn't knock a stir outta him. An entire crowd in Belfast were booing by the end of the farcical fight.

    Joshua bombed him outta it in rd2.

    I'm not comparing Joshua and Fury's power though? I don't think anyone doubts Joshua has more of it.

    Vitali couldn't knock Kevin Johnson out. Does that mean he has no power either? Using a heavyweight with probably the best chin of this generation is hardly a stick to beat Fury with.


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    #919
    ebbsy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,746 ✭✭✭ebbsy


    Fury fight is ages away. Look at the state of him. Problem is he would need some warm up fights but they could only be against tomato cans. Couldn't risk it with his activity. Hardly proper preperation.

    Joshua Ko early on I'd say.


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    #920
    Morrison J
    Registered Users Posts: 3,852 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    Klitschko Points
    The importance of head movement. Same punch, Fury rolls with the punch. AJ gets knocked on the canvas.

    https://twitter.com/Boxspose/status/858717080601976832


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    #921
    Erik Shin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,721 ✭✭✭Erik Shin


    Joshua Points
    Morrison J wrote: »
    The importance of head movement. Same punch, Fury rolls with the punch. AJ gets knocked on the canvas.

    https://twitter.com/Boxspose/status/858717080601976832

    Fury doesn't half talk some rubbish


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    #922
    snowflaker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭snowflaker


    Joshua Points
    Too Tough To Die wrote: »
    He wasn't stripped of the belts for testing positive for peds.

    He was not champion when he supposedly tested positive, this was months before the Wlad fight, so possibly unlikely he was on anything for that fight, if he was on anything at all. Hearing for that is coming up next week, i believe.

    It's the appeal hearing


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    #923
    snowflaker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭snowflaker


    Joshua Points
    Months before... to help with conditioning perhaps? Why else would he be on them? I love the way some are willing to turn a blind eye to all Fury's transgressions


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    #924
    Burial.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,131 ✭✭✭Burial.


    Klitschko Points
    Enjoyable fight that. Wlad gave a great account of himself, and Joshua showed some serious bottle and heart to win the fight. A young Wlad would have thrown caution to the wind and finished Joshua when he was goosed I figure, can't believe he didn't see red with Joshua sprawled along the ropes with hands down. However credit must go to Joshua for recovering and getting it done. That uppercut was a peach. I can't root Joshua, because everything about him is what I hate most about Boxing, but kid has got heart.

    I hope Wlad retires now, nothing to prove, he's got a good performance to bow out on, and he's still got his wits about him. As for Joshua, he'll learn from that but his weaknesses are as blaringly obvious as ever and as a HW I don't think he can eradicate them. Wilder would be a fun match up for how long it lasts, a case of who wants to go full retard the fastest. I'd think Wilder is very underrated, he aint half bad a boxer when needs be. Would also like to see fights with Fury and Ortiz, the two top guys at HW imo. A mentally sound and fit Fury would clown Joshua, but it's a coin flip if that is possible anymore. I think Ortiz destroys him if Joshua cannot fix his flaws, which I don't see happening. Ortiz looks a little pudgy on recent viewing but he's got everything and some to beat Joshua and if he hurts him once he'll finish him. Still cannot believe Wlad let him back into it, perhaps he was gassing a little too.

    A side note: Carl Froch may be the worst analyst in the history of all sports.


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    #925
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,656 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Klitschko Points
    walshb wrote: »
    Come on...AJ is hardly sweet Pea. He can be tagged. I bet Wilder tags him. But, maybe AJ tags Wilder first. It's a toss up.

    Btw, you say Fury would likely be well ahead on points before AJ gets him out of there. You think Fury avoids getting hit clean for a fair few rds? I reckon it's more an early job. Fury's chances really increase the longer it goes. Anyway, Fury has been yet again shut down by AJ via twitter. Just train and get back to your fighting weight!

    Wilder has struggled to find his range with poor enough opposition, his ko power was the decisive factor in getting him out of trouble. Joshua will surely get to him first and end it. I'll be surprised if Wilder lasts more than 4 rounds. Fury, as he showed against Wlad, will not be there to be hit early on. He will makes Joshua fall short time and again. The problem being that Joshua will surely connect with something meaningful at some stage.
    To be honest I'm not confident we will see Fury fight again anyway. You can't believe anything he says- it changes from one day to the next.


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    #926
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,656 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Klitschko Points
    Morrison J wrote: »
    The importance of head movement. Same punch, Fury rolls with the punch. AJ gets knocked on the canvas.

    https://twitter.com/Boxspose/status/858717080601976832

    I see what you mean. Fury steadies himself for it and rolls with it thus reducing the impact. As you say that clip shows Fury's superior skill right there. Joshua did show some head movement against Klitschko, but Fury is, and always will be, just naturally better at it.


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    #927
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,683 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Joshua Points
    He didn't roll with the shot that Cunningham dropped him with. Picking out isolated incidents here and there means F all. Both Fury and AJ have their strengths and weaknesses. Skill is very difficult to define and batten down. Many traits and examples to look at, and different people lending more weight to one discipline over another.

    In a nutshell. Punching and delivery-mechanics of punching AJ is more polished and skilled. Movement and feet and anticipation skills Fury is more skilled. That's called educated assessing.

    But really it matters damn all. Because even if Fury does get ready and motivated, he may never be as effective as he was a couple of years ago, resulting in him probably getting blasted out of it.


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    #928
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,683 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Joshua Points
    Oh, and I almost forgot. He didn't roll with the shot that he nearly knocked himself out with...some skill in that one.


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    #929
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,656 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Klitschko Points
    walshb wrote: »

    In a nutshell. Punching and delivery-mechanics of punching AJ is more polished and skilled. Movement and feet and anticipation skills Fury is more skilled. That's called educated assessing.

    It matters a lot, and it's debatable whether AJ is better at delivering punches, he has more power no doubt, some skills are crucial to possess and having them can determine the outcome of fights. If it was not so, then assessing a fighters ability and his chances of winning would become redunant. Fury may have been dropped by Cunnigham due to being careless. What you overlook is that he showed good defensive skills when it really mattered against the top unbeaten fighter at the time in Wlad. The reality is he not had displayed these skills he would have been knocked out. As it transpired Wlad was so scared of missing and being countered he refused to let his hands go. It wasn't that Wlad had a bad night of his own volition , he was made to have one.


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    #930
    qwabercd
    Registered Users Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭qwabercd


    Joshua KO
    walshb wrote: »
    No. I just call out BS when I see it...

    Ok, I take your point. My opinion was complete BS, you were right as always.


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    #931
    section4
    Registered Users Posts: 358 ✭✭section4


    nacho libre wrote: »
    It matters a lot, and it's debatable whether AJ is better at delivering punches, he has more power no doubt, some skills are crucial to possess and having them can determine the outcome of fights. If it was not so, then assessing a fighters ability and his chances of winning would become redunant. Fury may have been dropped by Cunnigham due to being careless. What you overlook is that he showed good defensive skills when it really mattered against the top unbeaten fighter at the time in Wlad. The reality is he not had displayed these skills he would have been knocked out. As it transpired Wlad was so scared of missing and being countered he refused to let his hands go. It wasn't that Wlad had a bad night of his own volition , he was made to have one.

    Wlad was never a one punch knockout artist, hejust kept pecking till you were vulnerable and then finished you off, I was surprised how badly he hurt Joshua that early in the fight especially when you consider Joshua had him down in the previous round and wlad is 41years of age, the most significant factors in this fight.
    It was plain to see he was fighting well for a 41 year old but looking slow and laboured, that he was ab,e to hurt Joshua at all dies not bode well.
    The only time Joshua looked effective was when he came forwRd and threw bursts of punches but he couldn't sustain then over a minute if he could he should have had wlad out in the first but he wasn't able to.

    All that happened was that Joshua outlasted a slower much older man, it wasn't that Joshua recovered he is after all 27 and any 27 year old will recover if left alone for a few rounds as wlad did after knocking him down because he quite simply did not have the energy or speed to punch him enough because if his age .

    Joshua looks worse after this fight not better
    He reminds me of frank Bruno


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