The Cost of Speeding

outinthefields · 26-04-2017 9:00pm #1

Looks like the more you make could bite you if you have a heavy right foot.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/speeding-fines-will-be-linked-to-what-you-earn-in-bid-to-end-road-carnage-35655082.html
:eek:

JPCN1 · 26-04-2017 9:03pm

Utter bullsh1t from Rossy the populist. Penalty points are more of a deterrent than a fine.

pontoonz · 26-04-2017 9:03pm

i object,

the speed cameras are always in the accident blackspots, and it is not a money making exercise

(ie they don't just set up a handy camera to trap drivers leaving the 50 km zone)

ps you can believe the word of the speed-trap-operator

very honest people

honest

odyssey06 · 26-04-2017 9:08pm

How are penalty points not a deterrent?
Do rich people have to get more penalty points before they are put off the road?

Nonsense proposal.

Really rich people could just pay a poor person in a brown envelope to say they were driving their car back from carwash.

pontoonz · 26-04-2017 9:10pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

How are penalty points not a deterrent?
Do rich people have to get more penalty points before they are put off the road?

Nonsense proposal.

Really rich people could just pay a poor person in a brown envelope to say they were driving their car back from carwash.

i beg your pardon,

we may not be rich enough to pay our "speeding fines",

but we'e rich in other ways,

but ya if juddge f says were a criminal, why not, it's her game by her rules

XsApollo · 26-04-2017 9:13pm

That proposal is sh*te
A better way would be the more you are over the limit , the higher the fine.

Omackeral · 26-04-2017 9:13pm

Preposterous suggestion. That is all. Doesn't even deserve debate. Justice should be blind.

diomed · 26-04-2017 9:14pm

Good in theory but on any drive you see hundreds speeding.
This sounds like we are fishing for the big specimen fish, not the shoals.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 26-04-2017 9:14pm

The government spend a lot of time thinking up things like this, which is not a very important issue. People dying on the roads is important but is there even any evidence that this initiative will save lives? Like the automatic off the road if any drink has been taken initiative recently?

There are so many more important issues to address. I think they should start with the trolley crisis as it is getting out of hand and would without a doubt save lives.

Beyondgone · 26-04-2017 9:14pm

Speeding fines can go shyte. E-Flow bills.. now they can bite hard, very hard.

jimbobaloobob · 26-04-2017 9:15pm

pontoonz wrote: »

i object,

the speed cameras are always in the accident blackspots, and it is not a money making exercise

(ie they don't just set up a handy camera to trap drivers leaving the 50 km zone)

ps you can believe the word of the speed-trap-operator

very honest people

honest

I know a 50kph zone outside a school they sit at often 10-11pm at night, road has hard shoulder left and right side and isnt a designated accident blackspot. Hard to convince me it isnt a coffer collector

Beyondgone · 26-04-2017 9:17pm

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

The government spend a lot of time thinking up things like this, which is not a very important issue. People dying on the roads is important but is there even any evidence that this initiative will save lives? Like the automatic off the road if any drink has been taken initiative recently?

There are so many more important issues to address. I think they should start with the trolley crisis as it is getting out of hand and would without a doubt save lives.

But the HSE is hard to solve. "Speederz are bad" is an easy sell. Sure who could argue? It's H & S ffs? "Speeders are bad geezers".

Someone has to keep the utter imbeciles in a job. The RSA seems to have stepped up to the task.. them and the HSA..

CoolHandBandit · 26-04-2017 9:17pm

Excellent move from the minister. Well done Shane.

pontoonz · 26-04-2017 9:20pm

jimbobaloobob wrote: »

I know a 50kph zone outside a school they sit at often 10-11pm at night, road has hard shoulder left and right side and isnt a designated accident blackspot. Hard to convince me it isnt a coffer collector

that's one unique instance,

and i'm sure the "speeder" was advised of the fine by registered post?

being honest and all that

honest

Armchair Andy · 26-04-2017 9:21pm

No such thing as a bad idea when it comes to filling the government's coffers.

Pinch Flat · 26-04-2017 9:23pm

I usually find the best way to avoid these fines is to drive within the speed limit. Worked for me since 1987 anyway.

pontoonz · 26-04-2017 9:24pm

CoolHandBandit wrote: »

Excellent move from the minister. Well done Shane.

applause,

well done lord ross,

hammer the people who can't afford to pay your salary through "false fines",

i would love lord ross to stop me and tell me tax was out of date

Mountainsandh · 26-04-2017 9:27pm

I never got a fine in my life and I earn little, and even I think it's a bad idea.

Armchair Andy · 26-04-2017 9:29pm

Pinch Flat wrote:

I usually find the best way to avoid these fines is to drive within the speed limit. Worked for me since 1987 anyway.

Nice. Is she a thoroughbred?

pontoonz · 26-04-2017 9:31pm

Mountainsandh wrote: »

I never got a fine in my life and I earn little, and even I think it's a bad idea.

bless your innocence

Banjoxed · 26-04-2017 9:33pm

Tailgaters and blind overtakers should have their cars limited to 20 km/h. Arrogant and dangerous driving is a far greater problem than doing 140 on an empty motorway.

diomed · 26-04-2017 9:35pm

Banjoxed wrote: »

Tailgaters and blind overtakers should have their cars limited to 20 km/h. Arrogant and dangerous driving is a far greater problem than doing 140 on an empty motorway.

Both are.

Mountainsandh · 26-04-2017 9:38pm

pontoonz wrote: »

bless your innocence

**blinks innocently**

Banjoxed · 26-04-2017 9:43pm

diomed wrote: »

Both are.

So how come no effort is put into the first, while the easy prey of the second has all the time in the world put into it by Official Ireland?

Capt'n Midnight · 26-04-2017 9:49pm

Armchair Andy wrote: »

No such thing as a bad idea when it comes to filling the government's coffers.

We are giving away a €300 million hospital to a charity that won't be staffing it or paying for it's upkeep or , well what exactly are they going to do with this asset ??

We are also paying €300m extra for another hospital because the "price has gone up" by a third in the last three years. (from €404 in 2012 to €1,070 and rising) And they are blaming labour costs ?
Up to 1,700 construction jobs over 4 years works out at €44K a year EXTRA !

Speeding fines only "raise" €70m a year (not counting the €16m a year contract) so they are only a rounding error for govt wate.

Hannibal_Smith · 26-04-2017 9:50pm

Surely that can't be legal? You can't have two people in front of you in court for the same offence and fine one more than the other because of their earnings?

Banjoxed · 26-04-2017 10:06pm

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Surely that can't be legal? You can't have two people in front of you in court for the same offence and fine one more than the other because of their earnings?

Fines should start from a deterrent base and increase to a percentage of earnings. Otherwise, a fine for motoring offences will be seen as an incidental cost and not a deterrent.

Royale with Cheese · 26-04-2017 10:11pm

Penalty points are the deterrent. The entire reason they were brought in was to act as a deterrent to wealthy people to whom the fines meant little. This is absolute bollox of the highest order.

Hannibal_Smith · 26-04-2017 10:14pm

Banjoxed wrote: »

Fines should start from a deterrent base and increase to a percentage of earnings. Otherwise, a fine for motoring offences will be seen as an incidental cost and not a deterrent.

So two people commit the same offence and one gets fined more than the other? That's completely unfair. Your deterrent is to stop the points mounting up! Regardless of your earnings.

Beyondgone · 26-04-2017 10:17pm

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Surely that can't be legal? You can't have two people in front of you in court for the same offence and fine one more than the other because of their earnings?

Not at all. One worked harder than the other, got up earlier and put in waay more effort - obviously you fine them far more than the lazy cnut who stayed in bed and hit snooze. It's the new real. Didn't you get the memo?

diomed · 26-04-2017 10:17pm

Banjoxed wrote: »

So how come no effort is put into the first, while the easy prey of the second has all the time in the world put into it by Official Ireland?

Whataboutery, excusing something by comparing it to something unrelated.

The police try to make the roads safer by charging people who commit major offences: driving without motor tax, motor licence, motor insurance, NCT, and who drink and drive, take drugs and drive, exceed the speed limit, drive using a mobile phone. I'm guessing here, but my guess is people who are guilty of one of the above offences are candidates for many of the other offences.

You think effort should be put into catching tailgaters and blind overtakers. How would you prove these offences?

Permabear · 26-04-2017 10:20pm

This post has been deleted.

Beyondgone · 26-04-2017 10:41pm

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I'm guessing that by "vulnerable" you mean "useless". If so, that Nirvana is close. Very close.

Capt'n Midnight · 26-04-2017 11:41pm

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Surely that can't be legal? You can't have two people in front of you in court for the same offence and fine one more than the other because of their earnings?

By god yes.

Before penalty points the £50 speeding fine was treated as a business expense by some. Get a good local lawyer and offer a donation to the poor box and you might not even get a criminal record.

We need the same punishments for rich and poor. Fixed fines for the rich are pocket change so they aren't punishments.

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-31709454

businessman Reima Kuisla was caught doing 103km/h (64mph) in an area where the speed limit is 80km/h (50mph), authorities turned to his 2013 tax return, the Iltalehti newspaper reports. He earned 6.5m euros (£4.72m) that year, so was told to hand over 54,000 euros.

So in reality that €54,000 would have affected his lifestyle less than a £50 fine would have affected mine back in the day when our reps told me about the poor box.

please helpThank YOU · 27-04-2017 2:05am

copy cat Irish Government copying Sweden . Swedish driver world biggest ever speeding fine 650,000 euros.

gctest50 · 27-04-2017 2:10am

All just in time for the arrival of Average Speed Cameras

endacl · 27-04-2017 2:20am

gctest50 wrote: »

All just in time for the arrival of Average Speed Cameras

Another waste of cash. Why can't we have Above Average Speed Cameras? How much more would they cost?

jackofalltrades · 27-04-2017 2:35am

diomed wrote: »

You think effort should be put into catching tailgaters and blind overtakers. How would you prove these offences?

Analysis of dachcam footage.
There's a whole thread in the motoring forum of dangerous driving caught on camera.

The RSA are a one trick pony, and are doubling down on the whole "speed kills" mantra since the number of roads deaths went up last year.
Road deaths are increasing because the government gutted the Traffic Corp through budget cuts.
Obviously the government don't want to increase the budget, because they're too busy increasing spending in other areas so as to buy votes.
So the RSA come out with dumb ideas like this, to justify their existence and continued funding.
Can't wait for autonomous vehicles to put them out of a job.

I love Sean nos · 27-04-2017 3:08am

pontoonz wrote: »

ps you can believe the word of the speed-trap-operator

very honest people

honest

Why would they lie? They already have the state's (our) money.

Pinch Flat · 27-04-2017 6:13am

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Analysis of dachcam footage.
There's a whole thread in the motoring forum of dangerous driving caught on camera.

The RSA are a one trick pony, and are doubling down on the whole "speed kills" mantra since the number of roads deaths went up last year.
Road deaths are increasing because the government gutted the Traffic Corp through budget cuts.
Obviously the government don't want to increase the budget, because they're too busy increasing spending in other areas so as to buy votes.
So the RSA come out with dumb ideas like this, to justify their existence and continued funding.
Can't wait for autonomous vehicles to put them out of a job.

So, it's the Gardai's fault people are being killed on the roads?

I love Sean nos · 27-04-2017 6:45am

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

The government spend a lot of time thinking up things like this

Do they? According to the article, this was an idea submitted to the minister from the RSA, who would appear to have read about it in the UK this week.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

is there even any evidence that this initiative will save lives? Like the automatic off the road if any drink has been taken initiative recently?

My understanding is that the "initiative" as you put it is still only a proposal. It is yet to become law and is unlikely to do so due to rural lobbying.

Shenshen · 27-04-2017 6:50am

Omackeral wrote: »

Preposterous suggestion. That is all. Doesn't even deserve debate. Justice should be blind.

Sure it'd never see the car coming, then?

Shenshen · 27-04-2017 6:56am

I think the fairness of the suggestion is arguable - if both a rich lady and a poor guy pay the same money, it makes less of a difference to the rich lady.
If they pay the same percentage, it should (in theory) affect both of them equally.

However, I would object to this on purely practical terms. How much hassle is it going to be to determine how much exactly the offender is earning to determine every single speeding fine? For self-employed people, income can vary dramatically month to month, for example. What about income from, say, rental properties? Will this be taken into account? And if so, how? What about the person who just this month inherited their parent's savings after they passed away?
You'd need to employ droves of accountants to make a system like this work.

It's an absurd suggestion and utterly impractical suggestion. If you want to crack down on speeding, increase the number of camera vans out there and get round to fixing the legislation that stops the country putting fixed cameras on the roads.

Wibbs · 27-04-2017 6:57am

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I usually find the best way to avoid these fines is to drive within the speed limit. Worked for me since 1987 anyway.

Could a post be any more po faced?

I love Sean nos · 27-04-2017 7:07am

Wibbs wrote: »

Could a post be any more po faced?

He's got a point though. Can you think of another lawbreaking activity that would be discussed in the same way? Would a group of burglars open a thread to discuss the latest amendments to the criminal justice act of whatever?

"Ah it's terrible, it'll never work, we don't have enough Gardai or prison places. Why should I pay a heftier fine than Damo? I'm the one who robs the better houses. I need my balaclava and crowbar for work, etc."

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 27-04-2017 7:07am

So what happens one when one's chauffer is caught speeding? Is one fined on the basis of one's income or one's chaufffer's income?

I love Sean nos · 27-04-2017 7:25am

This makes the point better than I ever could.

DanWall · 27-04-2017 7:38am

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I usually find the best way to avoid these fines is to drive within the speed limit. Worked for me since 1987 anyway.

Unless you spend 100% of the time looking at your speedo and not the road you are going to drift up slightly over the limit, do it at the wrong time and you are caught

I love Sean nos · 27-04-2017 7:43am

DanWall wrote: »

Unless you spend 100% of the time looking at your speedo and not the road you are going to drift up slightly over the limit

Only if you have Parkinson's.

Shenshen · 27-04-2017 7:46am

And we seem to be back in the "It's humanly impossible not to speed"-discussion these threads inevitably turn into....

Boom_Bap · 27-04-2017 8:00am

Q. Has the problem of speeding been solved with all attempts of fines, ramps, cameras, etc been solved so far?
A. No.

Q. Is it time to try something new?
A. Yes.

Q. Is this new proposed system going to work?
A. Probably not.

The Cost of Speeding

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