Male teachers - Mod Note Post #221

Christy42 · 18-04-2017 3:27pm

conorhal wrote: »

I'd reccomend looking up Pholosopher, Christina Hoff Sommers, and here work on gender and education. She has long been warning that the treatment of masculinity as 'toxic' (can you even think of the word masculinity without that adjective these days?) is dammaging young boys as their natural tendencies patterns of behavior are treated as negatives or 'problematic'. There are many boys who's whole childhoods have been stripped of positive male role models, it's often acknowledged that girls 'need positive female role models', but not so boys for some reason.

Sommers did a series of interviews with Roaming Millennial that are well worth a look if anybody wishes to invest the time:

In what area are we short of male role models? More specifically I mean we see the need for female role models as either in celebrity culture (as we see so mucheck tv and films and develop our view of society partially viewing it) so female scientists being represented in film or taking the lead in superhero movies etc. Or real world instances of them so meeting people of your gender/race in certain roles. I mean the likes of John McClain or Brian O'Driscoll tend not to be referred to as toxic (possibly on some tumblr blog but not in the real world)

Is it just in teaching you are talking about as that definitely seems to be an issue.

Note serious question merely asking for more details as the "need for female role models" does not tend to be a need in the same way for guys but it seems likely we are lacking for role models in other areas.

freshpopcorn · 18-04-2017 3:45pm

When I was in primary school the mix of male to female teachers was about the same. Personally myself I found male teachers were suited to the senior cycle of school and female teachers were suited better to resource classes.
In secondary the mix was about the same but you could end up with having more male teachers than female teacher or vice versa. I generally preferred male teachers. I found them less flappy and niggly than female teachers.

The main reason I know men were turned of teaching were because they couldn't cope with screaming children every day.

osarusan · 18-04-2017 3:48pm

Has any research actually been done on why the number of men entering primary school teaching has dropped?

Somebody mentioned the need for Honours Irish in the LC and how lads aren't doing that, but that might be a result of them not wanting to get into primary teaching in the first place, not a reason for it.

Pac1Man · 18-04-2017 7:40pm

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Not really.
Most teachers ive known work an extra few hours at home every evening and a few hours over the weekend.

They also use the holidays eg. Easter, to catch up on work thats been piling up.

And they are basically trapped for the school term, they cant just pop away for a random long weekend break. They have to wait until a school break when the cost of a holiday is twice as much.

I mean after the school term, the summer months. I know it's tough going from September to the end of May/June including the weekends but those two or three months off must make it worthwhile?

goz83 · 18-04-2017 8:02pm

Samaris wrote: »

>.< I can't believe I'm suggesting this, but does anyone think it would help to protect both students and teachers if there were CCTV cameras in classrooms? My gut doesn't like the concept, but male teachers in particular are at risk from accusations and, conversely, students have been at risk from teachers of both genders before as we in Ireland are well-aware.

Would absolutely agree to cctv in all classes and common areas. It's best for everyone. Plus, you could easily find out who threw the paper airplane

Pac1Man wrote: »

I mean after the school term, the summer months. I know it's tough going from September to the end of May/June including the weekends but those two or three months off must make it worthwhile?

The only real benefit is having the time off with your kids. I am married to a teacher and it is a royal PITA that she can't take days off for holidays. And holidays are waaaay more expensive.

Murrisk · 18-04-2017 8:14pm

osarusan wrote: »

Has any research actually been done on why the number of men entering primary school teaching has dropped?

Somebody mentioned the need for Honours Irish in the LC and how lads aren't doing that, but that might be a result of them not wanting to get into primary teaching in the first place, not a reason for it.

I was pondering this myself. I think there are confluence of reasons. I think a big one would be that teaching as a profession has lost its cachet a bit in Ireland. There was time when the priest, the doctor, the solicitor and the teacher were held up as the pillars of the community, especially in rural areas. Medicine and law are still popular because they at least pay well. But nobody is really impressed with someone being a teacher any more and the IT industry has swelled in the last 30 years, siphoning off a lot of male workers who might well have entered the profession. Add to this that men feel a bit antsy around kids these days, lest they be accused of something untoward.

That's my take on it anyway.

Jobs OXO · 18-04-2017 8:55pm

BrokenArrows wrote: »

I honestly dont know how we have any teachers at all.

Becoming a teacher requires 3rd level qualifications and the knowledge that they will have to work their asses off for very very very little money.

Personally id prefer to be working in tesco stacking shelves than teaching a classroom full of kids that dont want to be there, or even worse teaching crying 4-5 year olds. Become a nanny if you want to take care of kids, probably pays the same and you just need to deal with 1 or 2 kids, not 30.

They get paid very very well on an hourly rate. 6 hours per day tops with at least 14 weeks off per year. Ireland pay the lazy dogs the best in the EU in fact.

4ensic15 · 18-04-2017 10:41pm

Jobs OXO wrote: »

They get paid very very well on an hourly rate. 6 hours per day tops with at least 14 weeks off per year. Ireland pay the lazy dogs the best in the EU in fact.

Lies, damned lies and statistics. How much do they get to live on? That is what matters. I had female teachers for a few years, then all male. male teachers are often smelly. Some abominably so. In fact when I was in secondary school a teacher was known as a "smell". What smell is coming next etc.

The_Valeyard · 18-04-2017 10:45pm

Jobs OXO wrote: »

They get paid very very well on an hourly rate. 6 hours per day tops with at least 14 weeks off per year. Ireland pay the lazy dogs the best in the EU in fact.

Link please?

Because I'm 99.999% sure you are wrong.

......... · 18-04-2017 11:00pm

Like most 'professions' in the western world these days, teaching compared to what it was, is now pretty much fcked.

please helpThank YOU · 18-04-2017 11:09pm

Male Teacher in 2017 there is way to many False Accuser around today . Very Dangerous Job today. if you are a Man/Male teaching Children in Schools Today Never Worth it.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 18-04-2017 11:11pm

nice_guy80 wrote: »

What was missing from the curriculum that put you off doing teaching?
Lack of testing on animals? I don't get why you wouldn't go into teaching

Most full timw teachers are paid ok
It's those recruited in the last 6/7 years with a huge gap in pay or a lack of fill time hours

Anyway, still the biggest barrier to males doing teaching, is that it Is now seen as a female dominated job with an increasing paperwork load. That swerves a lot of young lads straight away

There are far more positives than negatives in the job and I'm always trying to convince young lads to go for teacher training

Nothing more satisfying meeting someone who did their leaving cert or first year in college and them telling you all about how well they are doing and you remember them being a quiet and shy pupil in 3rd or 4th class

It wasn;t that something was missing, it was that I felt there was too much restriction. I would have been a very liberal teacher - for one thing, I would have liked to use contemporay novels and movies instead of prescribed literature, as this would have been more relevant to
the kids and more interesting for them. And that, I felt, would have made it far easier from them to express themselves.
I had a discussion once with a friend's 12-year old son was about whether or not we should blindly follow leaders or question authority. In order to make a point, I showed him "V for Vandetta". If I did that in a classroom (at least back in the 90s when I was reserching teaching) I'm pretty sure questions would have been asked.

I'd also like to have taken them out of the classroom a lot more, but I'm open to the fact that that might not have been possible anyway, due to other factors such as insurance.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 18-04-2017 11:14pm

Christy42 wrote: »

In what area are we short of male role models? More specifically I mean we see the need for female role models as either in celebrity culture (as we see so mucheck tv and films and develop our view of society partially viewing it) so female scientists being represented in film or taking the lead in superhero movies etc. Or real world instances of them so meeting people of your gender/race in certain roles. I mean the likes of John McClain or Brian O'Driscoll tend not to be referred to as toxic (possibly on some tumblr blog but not in the real world)

Is it just in teaching you are talking about as that definitely seems to be an issue.

Note serious question merely asking for more details as the "need for female role models" does not tend to be a need in the same way for guys but it seems likely we are lacking for role models in other areas.

I'd argue that both genders need more role models outside of sport and entertainment. Boys don't always relate to football.rugby players and girls don't always related to cute pop stars. Nor vice versa

In any case, the best role models tend to be someone the kids know personally, as in teachers, scout leaders, family and so on.

please helpThank YOU · 18-04-2017 11:26pm

If Someone Anyone Parent Student Today takes a dislike to you. And you are a Male School Teacher and the make a False Accusations against you. your life is Ruined Destroyed.

Jobs OXO · 18-04-2017 11:35pm

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Link please?

Because I'm 99.999% sure you are wrong.

Knock yourself out pal

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/irish-teachers-amongst-best-paid-in-world-despite-austerity-cuts-oecd-34228771.html

http://m.herald.ie/news/irish-teachers-best-paid-for-working-fewer-hours-27919314.html

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/irish-teachers-among-best-paid-in-the-world-oecd-30573265.html

http://www.edwalsh.ie/category/articles/education/

Glenster · 18-04-2017 11:39pm

Jobs OXO wrote: »

Knock yourself out pal

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/irish-teachers-amongst-best-paid-in-world-despite-austerity-cuts-oecd-34228771.html

http://m.herald.ie/news/irish-teachers-best-paid-for-working-fewer-hours-27919314.html

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/irish-teachers-among-best-paid-in-the-world-oecd-30573265.html

http://www.edwalsh.ie/category/articles/education/

That's pretty definitive. Betcha no-one addresses it though.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 18-04-2017 11:42pm

Jobs OXO wrote: »

They get paid very very well on an hourly rate. 6 hours per day tops with at least 14 weeks off per year. Ireland pay the lazy dogs the best in the EU in fact.

You don't seriously think they only work six hours a day, do you..? That's into flat-earth society reasoning there.

Anyway, I'm glad they get paid more. They should be.

Corkgirl18 · 18-04-2017 11:44pm

Jobs OXO wrote: »

Knock yourself out pal

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/irish-teachers-amongst-best-paid-in-world-despite-austerity-cuts-oecd-34228771.html

http://m.herald.ie/news/irish-teachers-best-paid-for-working-fewer-hours-27919314.html

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/irish-teachers-among-best-paid-in-the-world-oecd-30573265.html

http://www.edwalsh.ie/category/articles/education/

The problem here is that full time hours are so hard to come by. I could go over to the UK and get full hours no problem and be earning a fair bit more than what I am now.
Its easy to say we get 30K starting off but your first contract may only be for 10 hours. I know people teaching and earning less than â‚¬300 per week. Very hard to live on that.

Elemonator · 18-04-2017 11:44pm

Deleted User wrote: »

There should be a quota enforced where a certain percentage of teachers has to be male.

No, there shouldn't. Teachers should be selected on their merit rather than their gender. I would much rather a female teacher be the teacher on the basis of their merit rather than some poorly thought out gender quota.

And vice versa.

Jobs OXO · 18-04-2017 11:45pm

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

You don't seriously think they only work six hours a day, do you..? That's into flat-earth society reasoning there.

Anyway, I'm glad they get paid more. They should be.

Six hours tops. A lot less in many cases. Junior infants finish at start at 9.10 and finish at 1.30. Throw in coffee break and lunch break and it's disgusting how little they work. And before anyone starts kids of 4/5/6 don't need homework correction out of school hours. I am sick of teachers spouting about all this 'fictous' work they do when the kids go home. Its typically lies.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 18-04-2017 11:48pm

Jobs OXO wrote: »

Six hours tops. A lot less in many cases. Junior infants finish at start at 9.10 and finish at 1.30. Throw in coffee break and lunch break and it's disgusting how little they work. And before anyone starts kids of 4/5/6 don't need homework correction out of school hours. I am sick of teachers spouting about all this 'fictous' work they do when the kids go home. Its typically lies.

So... you think they go into a class and just wing it? And anyone teaching kids over the age of 7 never actually looks at the homework or assignments they hand in?

As I said - archaic fanciful thinking that's long since been abandoned.

18-04-2017 11:50pm

It's not just teaching where there is a huge gender gap. I've personally heard about many creches/child-care facilities that would refuse to hire men.

Jobs OXO · 18-04-2017 11:51pm

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

So... you think they go into a class and just wing it? And anyone teaching kids over the age of 7 never actually looks at the homework or assignments they hand in?

Pretty much most of what is handed in is corrected during school hours. An initial teaching plan is used over and over year after year. I know many teachers. They are the laziest creatures you would ever meet.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 18-04-2017 11:53pm

Jobs OXO wrote: »

Pretty much most of what is handed in is corrected during school hours. An initial teaching plan is used over and over year after year. I know many teachers. They are the laziest creatures you would ever meet.

Yeah... I'm going to stop you there caller becaue I'm under the suspicion that - I'll put this delicately - you're not enitrely genuine in your opinions. Or that you know any teachers.

Glenster · 18-04-2017 11:54pm

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

So... you think they go into a class and just wing it? And anyone teaching kids over the age of 7 never actually looks at the homework or assignments they hand in?

As I said - archaic fanciful thinking that's long since been abandoned.

How many hours does it take to look at 25 pictures of a house?

Jobs OXO · 18-04-2017 11:55pm

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Yeah... I'm going to stop you there caller becaue I'm under the suspicion that - I'll put this delicately - you're not enitrely genuine in your opinions. Or that you know any teachers.

You can have all the suspicions you like and put things delicately or not because I am factually correct.

The_Valeyard · 18-04-2017 11:55pm

Jobs OXO wrote: »

Knock yourself out pal

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/irish-teachers-amongst-best-paid-in-world-despite-austerity-cuts-oecd-34228771.html

http://m.herald.ie/news/irish-teachers-best-paid-for-working-fewer-hours-27919314.html

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/irish-teachers-among-best-paid-in-the-world-oecd-30573265.html

http://www.edwalsh.ie/category/articles/education/

You said best paid in the EU.

Also two of those links are the same article, the hearld seems to be a copy and paste of said article.

Ed Walsh is a vindictive old man who hates teachers since they didnt agree with his view of education. Listen to him on the radio and you will see. He is despised by many a teacher.

Also I think you will find that Denmark, Luxemburg are hire paid. Sooooo not fact?

http://www.oecd.org/edu/education-at-a-glance-19991487.htm

Or

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.oecd.org/edu/EAG2014-Indicator%20D3%20(eng).pdf&ved=0ahUKEwjB0KOfja_TAhWBD8AKHYGhBsMQFggZMAA&usg=AFQjCNHqSq7ayFst5B6MVfZeEE4_waStKw

Jobs OXO · 18-04-2017 11:57pm

The_Valeyard wrote: »

You said best paid in the EU.

Also two of those links are the same article, the hearld seems to be a copy and paste of said article.

Ed Walsh is a vindictive old man who hates teachers since they didnt agree with his view of education. Listen to him on the radio and you will see. He is despised by many a teacher.

Also I think you will find that Denmark, Luxemburg are hire paid. Sooooo not fact?

http://www.oecd.org/edu/education-at-a-glance-19991487.htm

Indeed a simple trick to make you prove they are disgustingly well paid. Good lad, point proven for me. Thanks for the link - took you a bit longer to get it than I thought it would though.

The_Valeyard · 18-04-2017 11:59pm

Jobs OXO wrote: »

Indeed a simple trick to make you prove they are disgustingly well paid. Good lad, point proven for me. Thanks for the link - took you a bit longer to get it than I thought it would though.

No trick.

You are just wrong.

Simples

Or 'fact' as you said

Jobs OXO · 19-04-2017 12:00am

The_Valeyard wrote: »

No trick.

You are just wrong.

Simples

Or 'fact' as you said

Nope the trick was to get you to prove how well paid they are. Thanks for the linky! Good lad. Simples.

Male teachers - Mod Note Post #221

Comments