Male teachers - Mod Note Post #221

py2006

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

I'm involved in a few feminist orientated organisations. I don't know one woman who wants inequality for men. They want equality for all.

Good to hear but that is most definitely not always the case.

Most are misguided into thinking the only areas of inequality affect women.

Lemming

Has anyone considered ... that maybe, just maybe, one of the core reasons that more men aren't going into teaching is the generally negative reinforcement that boys have been on the receiving end of for the last .. oh ... twenty to thirty years in schools? Which much relishment in the media when girls outperform boys in core exams and/or percentages addmitted to further education courses added for extra effort. As an earlier poster commented, the current feminised education system treats boys like defective girls.

Is it any wonder that boys leave the school system not wanting to go back?

SlinkyL

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Err, yes you will
Sharing of tax credits
The bigger the school the bigger the principals allowance
Very few banks would refuse a mortgage to a permanent teacher
It's almost gold plated

So many people believe this to be the case. Newly qualified teachers take home about 900 per fornight. Live in Dublin, run a car and support a family on that money and tell me about how gold plated your lifestyle is. And good luck getting a mortgage or saving for a deposit...The media has done a magnificent job of convincing the general public that teaching is an incredibly well paid part time job and it's just not true.

I'm earning 926 per fornight and thank goodness my husband is not a teacher because if he earned as little as I do we'd be sunk. We have 3 kids, live in Dublin and all the usual expenses that my salary goes nowhere near covering...
This is without doubt a major reason why there aren't enough male teachers. Might be a reasonable income for a single person living at home or outside Dublin but there's nothing gold plated about it, after approx 10 years you would go up to maybe 1100 per fornight.

nice_guy80

Blame the INTO and Government for that, not the media

They threw newly qualified teachers under the school bus by protecting older teachers' (members) pay and conditions over future teachers pay and conditions

Gold plated - as in you will be guaranteed a mortgage
If Dublin isn't affordable, it's time to move

Murrisk

An enforced quota is a terrible idea; what if the quota wasn't reached? And you don't want people in the job who don't want to do it. A much better plan is to try to encourage men who may be leaning towards teaching to take the plunge and enter the profession.

R.D. aka MR.D

py2006 wrote: »

Good to hear but that is most definitely not always the case.

Most are misguided into thinking the only areas of inequality affect women.

When you say most, do you mean most feminists?

None of the feminists I know believe that inequality only affects women.

Are you referring to feminists in academia (I admittedly don't read as much modern feminist writings as I used to) or is it people posting online? I find the online contingent much different to the women and men who actually show up to meetings or grassroots movements. Dare I even say it but the 'keyboard warriors' aren't who all feminists should be judged by.

SlinkyL

Errrr...no..
I'm referring to misconceptions (such as your own) endemic in general public regarding teachers pay and conditions which have been brought about largely by successive government mouthpieces, i.e, the media.

That you assume teachers have no problem getting mortgages goes to show how successful the media have been in manipulating your world view.

The negotiations that brought about reductions to new entrants pay is an entirely different point, no clue why you are confusing the two.

I'm lucky that I bought my house years ago and mortgage is affordable for me and my family but thanks anyway for relocation advice... Dublin will be amazing for all when no teachers can afford to live here..

Think it would be more beneficial to discuss actual reasons why the profession is no longer attracting males rather than to make ill informed sweeping statements.

fly_agaric

skankkuvhima wrote: »

So why the urgency around women in STEM?

It is very much seen as a "power centre" in society now; a nexus of money and influence. I think the feminist movement couldn't give a crap about it before and was more attentive to politics and business, probably believed it was just a bunch of geeks, weirdos and misfits noodling away over the other end of the university campus while they were getting on with the important stuff. But they've woken up to its importance over the last 10 years or so.

Ben Gadot

is there any good reason for a man to go into teaching?

You'll be far better off not thinking the worst of people. Most people realise that the subject of this thread is freak more than norm. Gold help us when it's the opposite.

Water John

Probably get a little card, But I suggest you change your name to, Stone Age McGee.


Quote:
In general men are less interested in children than women and I suspect that is part of the reason less men do primary school teaching than women.

Corkgirl18

SlinkyL wrote: »

So many people believe this to be the case. Newly qualified teachers take home about 900 per fornight.

This is if they are lucky to get near full hours. You can halve that for a lot (probably most) of NQTs who can only acquire part time hours.

goose2005

There is a bias against men when it comes to applying for posts, but there's no political will to do anything about it because nobody seems to be really complaining.

afaik the opposite is true. There is a lack of male teachers because there is a lack of men entering the courses, but once those men do graduate, the world is their oyster - it's very easy to get jobs, to get vice-principalships and principalships

McCrack

SlinkyL wrote: »

So many people believe this to be the case. Newly qualified teachers take home about 900 per fornight. Live in Dublin, run a car and support a family on that money and tell me about how gold plated your lifestyle is. And good luck getting a mortgage or saving for a deposit...The media has done a magnificent job of convincing the general public that teaching is an incredibly well paid part time job and it's just not true.

I'm earning 926 per fornight and thank goodness my husband is not a teacher because if he earned as little as I do we'd be sunk. We have 3 kids, live in Dublin and all the usual expenses that my salary goes nowhere near covering...
This is without doubt a major reason why there aren't enough male teachers. Might be a reasonable income for a single person living at home or outside Dublin but there's nothing gold plated about it, after approx 10 years you would go up to maybe 1100 per fornight.

Can you explain the INTO salary scale...it's a 27 point scale from 30k starting to 60k pa over I presume 27 years.

At point 10 the basic is 45k pa.

I cant reconcile your figures with it.

PowerToWait

nice_guy80 wrote: »

If Dublin isn't affordable, it's time to move

Let's imagine Dublin City and county has a massive population of children of school going age who need education to ensure the future of our society and economy.

In your wisdom who do you propose might teach these kids if the teachers can't afford to live there?

CaptainR

Just for a bit of context, I'm 21, having graduated in 2014.

I went to an all boys primary school in Dublin. We had 2 male teachers and a male principal. Out of these three men, one of them had gotten the role of teaching sixth class every year. The other teacher didn't take a class he essentially was an administrator.

While some people might object or cite studies to the contrary, I must say that that one year of having a male teacher was the making of me and my friends. He was an excellent teacher no doubt but he was really able to connect with us on a personal level that female teachers hadn't in the past. We knew where we stood with him and it was a real case of give respect and receive respect. He made us feel like adults and treated us as if we were on the same level as him. He was one of the most influential teachers I ever had without a doubt.

Since I left in 2008 the two male teachers and the principal have both retired and been replaced by women. There's no male teachers at that school now. I think its very sad that men aren't entering primary level education. Young boys need a male teacher at some stage of primary school IMO.

Glenster

PowerToWait wrote: »

Let's imagine Dublin City and county has a massive population of children of school going age who need education to ensure the future of our society and economy.

In your wisdom who do you propose might teach these kids if the teachers can't afford to live there?

Live in Tallaght mate, they're giving houses away.

Glenster

I don't want my theoretical nipper looking up to a teacher of all people.

I had a healthy disrespect of them when I was a lad and I'd hope he'd have the same. They're the career equivalent of someone who is born, lives and dies in the same small town and thinks that makes them loyal and wise rather than a loser.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I have no idea why any man would want to be a primary school teacher.

Pedophiles might.

One eyed Jack

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Pedophiles might.

Pedophiles might have an idea why men would want to become teachers?

I don't think they'd have any idea any more than the number of women who become teachers because they want the opportunity to abuse children. It's not like there aren't easier ways to gain unrestricted, unlimited access to children without having to endure the shìte that people of either gender who become teachers have to put up with, as teachers.

nice_guy80

Glenster wrote: »

I don't want my theoretical nipper looking up to a teacher of all people.

I had a healthy disrespect of them when I was a lad and I'd hope he'd have the same. They're the career equivalent of someone who is born, lives and dies in the same small town and thinks that makes them loyal and wise rather than a loser.

Sure, you might as well pass that chip along to your own children

If you understand anything about child psychology then between the ages of 6 and 11/12 their teacher can be a larger influence than the parent on a child. They get 5 hours a day facetime for 183 days a year

I hope you have a lovely day

nice_guy80

PowerToWait wrote: »

nice_guy80 wrote: »

If Dublin isn't affordable, it's time to move

Let's imagine Dublin City and county has a massive population of children of school going age who need education to ensure the future of our society and economy.

In your wisdom who do you propose might teach these kids if the teachers can't afford to live there?

Young teachers not looking to buy a big house?
Teachers actually from Dublin?
No reason why every culchie has to settle in Dublin to try and educate and put manners on the children

Glenster

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Sure, you might as well pass that chip along to your own children

If you understand anything about child psychology then between the ages of 6 and 11/12 their teacher can be a larger influence than the parent on a child. They get 5 hours a day facetime for 183 days a year

I hope you have a lovely day

I would hope a child with proper parental guidance does not choose a role model based solely on proximity.

The virtues I was taught were valuable as a child; Hard work, engagement, ambition, innovation, determination, I looked for in the teachers around me and couldn't find it. So I sought out more appropriate role models.

Its not hard to see why teachers don't embody these traits, becoming a teacher is the path of least resistance, their job is repetitive and involves rote learning over and over again, and as an adult (which was not apparent to me as a child) its clear that there is an arrested development among teachers.

nice_guy80

Glenster wrote: »

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Sure, you might as well pass that chip along to your own children

If you understand anything about child psychology then between the ages of 6 and 11/12 their teacher can be a larger influence than the parent on a child. They get 5 hours a day facetime for 183 days a year

I hope you have a lovely day

I would hope a child with proper parental guidance does not choose a role model based solely on proximity.

The virtues I was taught were valuable as a child; Hard work, engagement, ambition, innovation, determination, I looked for in the teachers around me and couldn't find it. So I sought out more appropriate role models.

Its not hard to see why teachers don't embody these traits, becoming a teacher is the path of least resistance, their job is repetitive and involves rote learning over and over again, and as an adult (which was not apparent to me as a child) its clear that there is an arrested development among teachers.

Very little rote learning in primary teaching nowadays
Maths tables, maybe some spelling

As if children chose their role models!

Parents
Teachers
Sports coaches
Peers
Peers parents

Weren't you an advanced child!
As I said, don't pass your begrudgery of teachers and the teaching profession onto any kids you may have
It will greatly affect their enjoyment of school

Glenster

nice_guy80 wrote: »

As I said, don't pass your begrudgery of teachers and the teaching profession onto any kids you may have
It will greatly affect their enjoyment of school

I don't think its begrudgery, I just think there's better people to look up to than someone who's drifted into a steady, mid level public service job.

Glenster

Glenster wrote: »

I don't want my theoretical nipper looking up to a teacher of all people.

I had a healthy disrespect of them when I was a lad and I'd hope he'd have the same. They're the career equivalent of someone who is born, lives and dies in the same small town and thinks that makes them loyal and wise rather than a loser.

Glenster wrote: »

I would hope a child with proper parental guidance does not choose a role model based solely on proximity.

The virtues I was taught were valuable as a child; Hard work, engagement, ambition, innovation, determination, I looked for in the teachers around me and couldn't find it. So I sought out more appropriate role models.

Its not hard to see why teachers don't embody these traits, becoming a teacher is the path of least resistance, their job is repetitive and involves rote learning over and over again, and as an adult (which was not apparent to me as a child) its clear that there is an arrested development among teachers.

So we're straight up insulting people and their livelihoods now? Fair enough.

You'd normally hear this fưckery of "engagement, ambition, innovation and determination" from someone who got higher than a 2.2. That's 1.1 talk.

spurious

skankkuvhima wrote:

Pay doesn't look that bad, starting at 28k going up to nearly 62k.

You're presuming a full hours job. Unfortunately many going into teaching think they will get this too.

Glenster

Deleted User wrote: »

So we're straight up insulting people and their livelihoods now? Fair enough.

You'd normally hear this fưckery of "engagement, ambition, innovation and determination" from someone who got higher than a 2.2. That's 1.1 talk.

I just think its not a particularly dynamic field to work in.

No progression unless you want to become an administrator. Lots of competition for jobs for some mad reason.

If you had an ounce of ambition I don't see how you could justify doing it.

Where do teachers see themselves in 5/10 years time? Doing the exact same thing at the same level or not teaching at all...

Hank Scorpio

Glenster wrote: »

I just think its not a particularly dynamic field to work in.

No progression unless you want to become an administrator. Lots of competition for jobs for some mad reason.

If you had an ounce of ambition I don't see how you could justify doing it.

Where do teachers see themselves in 5/10 years time? Doing the exact same thing at the same level or not teaching at all...

What about working in tescos or a steel factory, are those real jobs?

Glenster

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

What about working in tescos or a steel factory, are those real jobs?

Are they real? Yeah.

Hank Scorpio

Glenster wrote: »

Are they real? Yeah.

Strange, I thought I read you say they weren't.

Might want to make it clearer next time, might end up offending people.