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Would you report a social welfare cheat?

24

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭snowflaker


    infogiver wrote: »
    Is the hospital for the religious order or patients to be treated in?
    I think you probably don't have any problem with welfare fraud at all because you don't care that the taxpayer is footing the bill and you don't realise that other citizens (like home Carers and the disabled) are having to do without services that could make their lives easier because SW scammers are stealing the money out of their pockets.

    I am a PAYE single taxpayer so a lot of my money goes on tax.

    3% of SW payments are fraudulent- that compares well internationally

    It's small fry in comparison to tax evasion on a grand scale


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 31,152 ✭✭✭✭KERSPLAT!


    I used to do the odd nixer. €50 every few months for doing a quick job, meh, what about it.

    Anyway, to answer, no I wouldn't. I know a few who do bits and pieces on the side and I've no interest in reporting them.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 109 ✭✭Dublin Pintman


    Would depend. Someone doing a cash in hand gig on the side? No. Someone claiming two dole cheques or claiming disability. Yep.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,691 ✭✭✭Lia_lia


    No, I wouldn't do it. I was living with a fella before who was getting the dole but also had a full time job in a bar where he was earning about €400ish a week. Cash in hand. He used to spend his money on cocaine and expensive gadgets. Used to seriously piss me off!

    I couldn't report him. Even-though what he was doing was wrong I still felt like it was none of my business.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 889 ✭✭✭Murrisk


    I have a friend (early 30s) who is terminally ill who is pretending that her partner is just her housemate in order to claim illness benefit. Despite not getting any tax credits for people a couple, social welfare considers them a couple when it suits. She had to completely give up work when she was diagnosed with cancer and living with her partner would mean they would be jointly assessed and would not qualify for benefits. He doesn't have a high salary, the threshold is criminally low. If they had to live on his salary, they'd be in dire straits financially indeed in addition to the stress of coping with her having an illness that has gruelling treatments and that will kill her in a few short years. They can't get married either, even though they want to. Getting married would throw them into poverty. Because she is quite young, she doesn't have a huge amount of savings. I was really shocked at the lack of support terminally ill people who are in a couple get in this country. A single terminally ill person would be much better off financially or someone who isn't living with their partner but in a househare instead. She gets free travel and a medical card but they don't pay the every day bills.

    Anyone who would report the above couple is just an asshole, plain and simple.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,448 ✭✭✭✭Cupcake_Crisis


    I got my qualifications through FAS and a girl I went to college with got reported for "working from home" because she was doing treatments on family and friends for free to get the experience. All with equipment and products she paid for herself or borrowed from college. She had to go through a whole investigation and nearly lost her place on the course a month or 2 before exams.

    I know there are people who absolutely mince the system out of it, but you'd want to be sure you have your facts right before getting someone in trouble.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    Lia_lia wrote: »
    No, I wouldn't do it. I was living with a fella before who was getting the dole but also had a full time job in a bar where he was earning about €400ish a week. Cash in hand. He used to spend his money on cocaine and expensive gadgets. Used to seriously piss me off!

    I couldn't report him. Even-though what he was doing was wrong I still felt like it was none of my business.

    It's certainly none of your business if your on the dole yourself.
    It's your business if you can only get 2 hours home help for your mother because there's no money due to scumbags working and stealing money at the same time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,736 ✭✭✭Irish Guitarist


    Yes unless they give me a cut of the profits. I earn a fortune blackmailing people like this. I just bought a new television, a car and a dog from my earnings.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    No.

    Despite some people's mantra that single parents and dole recipients are milking it (big TVs, fancy foreign holidays etc.), I don't know anyone on welfare who lives like that.
    Most of these people are just getting by in life and you'd want to be a mean minded enough person to pick up a phone and report someone, not knowing what their situation may be.

    It won't change your life for the better, so why make someone else's worse? If the government are so worried about fraud, let them do their own detective work instead of encouraging neighbours to spy on each other and pick up phones. I'd wager many of these phone calls are made out of pure malice too...nothing to do with civic mindedness.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 263 ✭✭CoolHandBandit


    Absolutely not.


  • Registered Users Posts: 98 ✭✭PraxisPete


    7 years ago me and my girlfriend were in a situation where at times one of us was on the dole while the other was working in a low payed job. If we came clean to the dole about our cohabitation we would have had more money if we both stopped working and claimed rent allowance which we weren't doing.

    We're still not married so get no benefits tax wise. The system is wrong and I feel no guilt about what we did.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    No.

    Despite some people's mantra that single parents and dole recipients are milking it (big TVs, fancy foreign holidays etc.), I don't know anyone on welfare who lives like that.
    Most of these people are just getting by in life and you'd want to be a mean minded enough person to pick up a phone and report someone, not knowing what their situation may be.

    It won't change your life for the better, so why make someone else's worse? If the government are so worried about fraud, let them do their own detective work instead of encouraging neighbours to spy on each other and pick up phones. I'd wager many of these phone calls are made out of pure malice too...nothing to do with civic mindedness.

    If you want to live on a "how will this affect me" basis then that's your prerogative but SWs budget is €6 billion and a lot of people are either part or totally reliant on that money.
    If one person is taking more then their entitlement then someone else is doing without either totally or partially.
    That's how I see it


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭willmunny1990


    The only people I see living extravagantly on the Dole are Travellers.

    Plush caravans and mobile homes, brand new transit vans and all the free time in the world to ride sulkies during the day.


    Mod-Banned


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,691 ✭✭✭Lia_lia


    infogiver wrote: »
    It's certainly none of your business if your on the dole yourself.
    It's your business if you can only get 2 hours home help for your mother because there's no money due to scumbags working and stealing money at the same time.

    Nope, still wouldn't be any of my business. It wouldn't make any difference to that situation in reality.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    infogiver wrote: »
    If you want to live on a "how will this affect me" basis then that's your prerogative but SWs budget is €6 billion and a lot of people are either part or totally reliant on that money.
    If one person is taking more then their entitlement then someone else is doing without either totally or partially.
    That's how I see it

    Example?

    Who isn't getting a social welfare benefit they're entitled to because someone else is getting the dole and doing nixers on the side?


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 907 ✭✭✭Alpha_zero


    I heard Conor McGregor is still drawing the dole, but i let it slide.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,893 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Lia_lia wrote: »
    Nope, still wouldn't be any of my business. It wouldn't make any difference to that situation in reality.

    You might not think it's any of your business, but as a taxpayer it is most certainly my business.

    It's my money these fraudsters are robbing, not some random pot of cash that keeps refreshing itself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 34 TheManthatsDan


    Yep, 9 months on the dole and then get paid for going to college, I know because im doing it myself right now,

    What still grinds my gears though is dole cheats...in the broadest terms, if somebody claims the dole...it means they are incapable of finding a job, how this is allowed on for years on end is beyond me.

    If they had of said I had to empty bins in between classes i would of still accepted BTEA like a shot,

    Not working shouldnt be a choice that people can adjust to, contributing nothing while getting 188 per week

    193 now actually...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,524 ✭✭✭the_pen_turner


    if someone was working full time and on the dole or on disability etc then i would

    i have no problem with someone earning a few extra euro on the side. what harm are they doing.
    i look at that these people are going to spend the etra few euro in the local shop. they will take their other half out to dinner , paint the sitting room, buy a lawn mower etc. all these people are doing is creating employment.
    the government will get all the money back everntually anyway in tax.


    what is the bigger issue is the fat cats that are on thousands and thousands that take all the money out of the country, with big holidays, cars, investments, holiday homes, etc.

    i would rather have more dole cheaters earning 100 more on the side than fat cats earninga thousand


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,583 ✭✭✭blackbox


    Lia_lia wrote: »
    No, I wouldn't do it. I was living with a fella before who was getting the dole but also had a full time job in a bar where he was earning about €400ish a week. Cash in hand. He used to spend his money on cocaine and expensive gadgets. Used to seriously piss me off!

    .

    This is what really annoys me - stealing from the dole and stealing from the revenue. Employers who pay cash in hand also have a lot to answer for - and that also includes people who pay cash for house painting, car repairs etc. As well as stealing the tax they're stealing work from people who do pay their taxes.

    We'd all prefer not to have to pay taxes. We'd all prefer if the money was spent more wisely.

    Some people would steal even if the government was perfect. Stealing from SW and revenue won't fix it.

    .


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,691 ✭✭✭Lia_lia


    Allinall wrote: »
    You might not think it's any of your business, but as a taxpayer it is most certainly my business.

    It's my money these fraudsters are robbing, not some random pot of cash that keeps refreshing itself.

    I also work and pay thousands in tax. I just personally wouldn't tell on someone for social welfare fraud. Wouldn't get involved. Even though I know it's wrong and wouldn't do it myself, I'd still feel guilty for reporting it. It seems very petty.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,757 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    No I wouldn't consider it.

    I have no time for this culture of denunciation where people are encouraged to spy on their neighbours.

    If there is abuse let the authorities do their job to sort it out without citizens being set against each other.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,893 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Lia_lia wrote: »
    I also work and pay thousands in tax. I just personally wouldn't tell on someone for social welfare fraud. Wouldn't get involved. Even though I know it's wrong and wouldn't do it myself, I'd still feel guilty for reporting it. It seems very petty.

    It's reporting theft.

    If you saw someone running into a shop with a baseball bat and a balaclava on their head, would you just shrug and think it would be just petty to call the guards?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,691 ✭✭✭Lia_lia


    Allinall wrote: »
    It's reporting theft.

    If you saw someone running into a shop with a baseball bat and a balaclava on their head, would you just shrug and think it would be just petty to call the guards?

    Completely different.

    This reminds me of those DVD piracy ads. Would you steal a car? ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,893 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Lia_lia wrote: »
    Completely different.

    This reminds me of those DVD piracy ads. Would you steal a car? ;)

    I don't understand that post?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 263 ✭✭CoolHandBandit


    Lia_lia wrote: »
    I also work and pay thousands in tax. I just personally wouldn't tell on someone for social welfare fraud. Wouldn't get involved. Even though I know it's wrong and wouldn't do it myself, I'd still feel guilty for reporting it. It seems very petty.

    It is extremely petty.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,067 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    It would depend on the circumstances.
    If I knew somebody was claiming social welfare at several post offices I probably would be very tempted to.
    If somebody was working a few hours a week in the lead up to Christmas or to try and provide for something small for their kid probably not.
    I've a relative who often reports innocent people for welfare fraud and she's a fairly nasty woman. She basically reports innocent people and draws a loud of hassle on them for nothing. Even if you've nothing to hide it's a lot of stress for people. So, my experience with people who report people is fairly negative.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,409 ✭✭✭Nomis21


    if someone was working full time and on the dole or on disability etc then i would

    Don't be in too much of a hurry to do that because new rules will allow Disability Allowance claimants to work AND keep their allowance.

    https://www.welfare.ie/en/downloads/2017-03-04_MakeWorkPay_PlainEng.pdf


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,691 ✭✭✭Lia_lia


    Allinall wrote: »
    I don't understand that post?

    If there was a robbery I would most likely report it as I would be witnessing someone in immediate danger. I was referring to the "warning" on dvd's where they compared DVD piracy to stealing a car...just thought it was a similar comparison.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭Donal55


    Enough worries & problems of my own to be bothered with what my neighbours are up to.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,893 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Lia_lia wrote: »
    If there was a robbery I would most likely report it as I would be witnessing someone in immediate danger. I was referring to the "warning" on dvd's where they compared DVD piracy to stealing a car...just thought it was a similar comparison.

    Ok.

    So if there is theft without violence, or someone being in danger, it's ok?

    You wouldn't care?

    What about in your work place? If there was someone with their hand in the till, or taking stock home?

    All good?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,691 ✭✭✭Lia_lia


    Allinall wrote: »
    Ok.

    So if there is theft without violence, or someone being in danger, it's ok?

    You wouldn't care?

    What about in your work place? If there was someone with their hand in the till, or taking stock home?

    All good?

    Nope, wouldn't report them. Again, none of my business. I have no problem if other people would report these types of theft. I just personally would stay out of it.

    If you found out your neighbour didn't pay their tv licence would you report them?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,245 ✭✭✭myshirt


    The frightening thing about all this is that there are many, many easier €500millions out there to save.

    I'd absolutely come down on welfare fraud, but many bigger fish out there to fry beforeand and I would like to see resources there.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭Donal55


    The irony, Leo 'not a red cent' Varadkar spouting about this after his own party blew a billion on IW.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,245 ✭✭✭myshirt


    It is extremely petty.

    I wonder how many reports of fraud are just speculative and driven by jealousy?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    myshirt wrote: »
    The frightening thing about all this is that there are many, many easier €500millions out there to save.........

    Welfare is very "noisy" ( media-wise ) though

    Now that the Irish Water thing has gone quiet they need something to keep the great unwashed busy


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,303 ✭✭✭Temptamperu


    In Soviet Russia 1 in 3 people was a snitch, family member or not.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,245 ✭✭✭myshirt


    In Soviet Russia 1 in 3 people was a snitch, family member or not.

    Wonder how many are snitching now.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,973 ✭✭✭RayM


    Some people are very quick to punch downwards. The only circumstances under which I'd even feel tempted to report a social welfare cheat is if they were committing fraud on a large scale and leading a life of luxury. And even then, I wouldn't be prepared to report them anonymously. If I'm going to be a snitch, I'd rather not do it in a cowardly way, like some kind of little curtain-twitching weasel.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 229 ✭✭Sosurface


    Anyone who would is a pure petty little coward. What satisfaction or benefit would you get from it like? Very few on social welfare payments are living anything like the lifestyle portrayed often on here by those its easy tell never had to experience anything like their circumstances.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,893 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Sosurface wrote: »
    Anyone who would is a pure petty little coward. What satisfaction or benefit would you get from it like? Very few on social welfare payments are living anything like the lifestyle portrayed often on here by those its easy tell never had to experience anything like their circumstances.

    Where do you think the money comes from?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    RayM wrote: »
    .....................If I'm going to be a snitch, I'd rather not do it in a cowardly way, like some kind of little curtain-twitching weasel.

    But you might get a nice badge from Stalin Leo that you can wear in private that says

    #1 ШЕПТУН


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,524 ✭✭✭the_pen_turner


    Allinall wrote: »
    Where do you think the money comes from?

    where do you think the money goes .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭Donal55


    Allinall wrote: »
    Where do you think the money comes from?

    The same place where incompetent Garda Commissioners, corrupt Politicians, gobsh1te Taoisigh, county managers, county councillors, and other such luminaries get their perks and pensions from.

    When we sort out that list I might then grass on an unmarried mother or a bloke doing a nixer.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,893 ✭✭✭Allinall


    where do you think the money goes .

    That's irrelevant.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,524 ✭✭✭the_pen_turner


    Allinall wrote: »
    That's irrelevant.

    no its not.
    basically the whole economy is just money moving around.
    giving people more money will help the econemy


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 109 ✭✭Dublin Pintman


    Sosurface wrote: »
    Anyone who would is a pure petty little coward. What satisfaction or benefit would you get from it like? Very few on social welfare payments are living anything like the lifestyle portrayed often on here by those its easy tell never had to experience anything like their circumstances.

    Why should I stand by if someone is ripping of the taxpayer by fraudulently claiming disability, for example?

    I would consider it my duty as good citizen to report such an individual. Same if I saw drug dealing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,893 ✭✭✭Allinall


    no its not.
    basically the whole economy is just money moving around.
    giving people more money will help the econemy

    Not true.

    Money has to be generated from activity. Otherwise we could just print notes and all would be hunky dory.

    The people and businesses that generate the money pay a finite amount of taxes, which we as a society decide how the limited resources are to be used.

    Anyone who cheats the system is a thief, pure and simple .


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭please helpThank YOU


    In Soviet Russia 1 in 3 people was a snitch, family member or not.
    Irish/Eire Government Want the People to Rat/Informer on one other like the did in Soviet East Germany in 1950s this is Domestic/Mass Surveillance to Me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,245 ✭✭✭myshirt


    When talking​ about welfare, people are apt to forget the net cost, and instead focus on the gross cost.

    If you give more money to those on welfare, what do they spend it on?

    Drink and fags of course. And maybe some petrol.

    These are all highly taxable goods lest we forget.

    So on a net cost basis, the cost​ is quite low. If you give that money to a richer person it just sits on deposit and doesn't​ circulate in the economy in the same way. Local jobs could be at risk. Etc etc.


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