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Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information


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NIGHT SHOOTING

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24567…17

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    #32
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,463 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    cavan shooter wrote: »
    Sports Coalition of vested interests is a disgrace.

    Shocking but I warned this before.
    As did many others, myself included, a few years back when the NARGC founded it.
    berettaman wrote: »
    I now know NARGC were fully justified in trying to get representation at FCP.
    Not trying to start a row here, but as the topic was brought up.

    The NARGC were the founding member of the coalition and regardless of the person at the helm at the time others had to agree to allow it to be formed. They started this abortion of an organisation and now distance themselves from it.

    Why the F**k couldn't they rid themselves of their own problems and just rejoin the FCP a few years back instead of creating this mess?
    Whole idea is unenforceable.
    Yes it will be. Now anyone out shooting won't have a valid argument to be doing so. IOW if you ban everyone then anyone out is guilty. All they need is to hear a shot, see a light and you're done.

    If you mean from a personnel point of view, then probably not. not enough feet on the ground, but then again i've see the Gardaí respond quicker to a call about a lamp in a field than an ongoing burglary. :rolleyes::mad:
    cavan shooter wrote: »
    How did this happen?
    Like all the other bullsh*t proposed in secret someone had to whisper it to someone else.
    Why weren't the Club's informed?
    not to rock the boat
    Who let this Happen?
    The reps obviously.
    What's been done about it?
    Feck all it would seem if its got this far, but now it's known the time is now to ring, write to and call your reps. Make it known how you feel and that it won't be tolerated.

    Also contact you landowners. Explain you won't be able to control foxes, and ask them to contact their IFA rep. Remember the IFA is the largest group in the country and they hold a serious amount of power.
    cookimonster wrote: »
    So from the above post and I refer to the term hunting used therein how will this effect the opening days of the deer season for morning stalking or the use of high seats as it usual practice to be in situ prior to first light and as far as I can remember would involve pre 06.00hrs movement etc.?
    Yup.

    Law says one hour before sunrise. Last September 1st that would be 5:35 am. So if i follow the 1976 wildlife act i'm going to be breaking this new law?

    That means a rewrite of the 1976 act or an SI to amend the act but i'm not sure if an SI can amend an Act to that degree.
    berettaman wrote: »
    You are quite right. If it becomes the law. . Big if.
    Massive if.

    Once the committee recommend it, it still has to go through all the normal steps. Meaning 3 months at the quickest, up to a year or more at the latest. Plenty of steps in between to get a spanner thrown into the works, protests, marches, etc.

    AGAIN, get writing NOW.
    cavan shooter wrote: »
    Sorry...You use the term guidelines. These are being rubber stamped by the FCP on Thursday...sorry mate there done and dusted...and we are screwed over.
    The FCP have no such authority. It's a consutlancy panel with reps that were invited by the Minister. They have an input, but frankly the Minister can accept or reject them at will.

    IOW it needs no stamping by the FCP at all. However if the reps on the FCP do "rubber stamp" these then i'd suggest they shut down their businesses, shops, and organisations the following morning. Won't be worth having when it's found out who allowed this to happen.
    gunny123 wrote: »
    I have heard of reports of deer being shot at night recently, the scum that poach don't pay any heed to seasons, or any other laws for that matter.
    As above, now anyone out, regardless of rifle/time/purpose, etc is guilty.

    You're dead right though, scum will be scum. Guarantee they will be the ones that will get away with it, while some poor bastard out for a "lamp" will be done for driving home at 00:01.
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    #33
    richiedel123
    Registered Users Posts: 457 ✭✭richiedel123


    Just got wind of this now from our county rep. To say I'm outraged is an understatement. It's a case of throwing the average shooter under the bus to make it easier watch out for deerpoachers. To my reading of this report it's the deer associations and vested bodies pushing this and npws because they probably will think it will be easier petrol when nobody is supposed to be lamping.
    I am delighted the nargc got away from the sports coalition and this is the proof that they made the right decision, although it could be too little too late at this stage as by my reading this is as good as signed sealed and delivered
    I really hope our representatives can get in Thursday and argue our point as the biggest hunting organisation that it effects us the most.
    The bans , having to notify the police, notify residents in the area is a joke in my opinion. We are already governed to the highest standards to get our licences now we have to report where and when we will be using them. Next thing they will want GPS trackers on us and our guns.
    In my opinion this is only the start of it. If this is introduced it won't an long before they will say it's working and will ban lamping completely


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    #34
    cookimonster
    Registered Users Posts: 2,759 ✭✭✭cookimonster


    Cass wrote: »
    .......
    Massive if.

    Once the committee recommend it, it still has to go through all the normal steps. Meaning 3 months at the quickest, up to a year or more at the latest. Plenty of steps in between to get a spanner thrown into the works, protests, marches, etc.

    AGAIN, get writing NOW.


    The FCP have no such authority. It's a consutlancy panel with reps that were invited by the Minister. They have an input, but frankly the Minister can accept or reject them at will.

    I tend to agree here, this is not a knee jerk reaction to some gun atrocity, no public out cry, but I wouldn't ignore it.
    I'm probably being naive but my interpretation of the recent announcement ref repealing the licensing laws for Good Friday would suggest not to be booking your high seats for next Easter weekend there's a bit more to It then every one agreeing in principle to the suggestion.


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    #35
    richiedel123
    Registered Users Posts: 457 ✭✭richiedel123


    The more I think about this the more annoying it gets. I only recently got a new tikka in 223 schmidt and bender scope etc the whole set up cost over 1500 quid now if this comes into effect it will be practicaly worthless because nobody will want to buy them.
    Arnt the Firearms dealers part of the sport coalition??They prob knew this was coming yet never tell anybody.feeling a bit raw over this!!!
    any of the organisations involved should be contacted to ask what's going on especially the deer associations!!!


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    #36
    dto001
    Registered Users Posts: 253 ✭✭dto001


    This will also affect early morning flighting for wildfowl which will ruin this sport. Is there a way of putting together a petition to get to them on Thursday so It is known that these groups do not represent the majority of the shooting majority.

    The only way to sort out poaching is to take the money out of it not penalising legitimate sporting people. Too many vested interests in this. I can understand the Gaurds but the so called shooting groups we have the perfect way to hunt in this
    country but unfortunately too much greed involved. In my opinion

    Can anyone tell me which groups are involved in this? Excuse the ignorance


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    #37
    dto001
    Registered Users Posts: 253 ✭✭dto001


    Emailed Minister for justice and IFA it's a start


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    #38
    DogfoxCork
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭DogfoxCork


    at the end of the day there is going to be poaching regardless of curfew/tag system/take the money out of it. there are better ways to clamp down on poaching than banning all nighttime activity. if anything that makes it easier for units with NV setups!


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    #39
    wirehairmax
    Registered Users Posts: 678 ✭✭✭wirehairmax


    Who is on the FCP at this moment?
    What groups are left in the Sports Coalition?
    Who is leading the Sports Coalition?


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    #40
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,463 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    For clarification i'm not attacking the NARGC as it is NOW.
    I'm also not going to repeat myself as we all know what happened and for the purpose of this thread it serves no good. I was merely pointing out how the "prodigal son" had returned.

    However this issue is far too important to get bogged down in who done what. There will be time enough for blame when it's over, but for now we must act and nip this in the bud. Make your reps hear you and make them do as the majority want and not fulfill their own agenda without consultation.
    cookimonster wrote: »
    ......... the recent announcement ref repealing the licensing laws for Good Friday would suggest not to be booking your high seats for next Easter weekend there's a bit more to It then every one agreeing in principle to the suggestion.
    Listening to a radio interview between a Senator, the Vintner's Assoc. and others and it started of well then descended into chaos when it came to the specifics. Same will happen here.
    dto001 wrote: »
    This will also affect early morning flighting for wildfowl which will ruin this sport.
    Exactly. It has much futher reaching consequences than just "trying" to stop poaching.
    Is there a way of putting together a petition to get to them on Thursday so It is known that these groups do not represent the majority of the shooting majority.
    You won't get the numbers on a petition, and definitely not by Thursday.

    However writing to them will have an immediate effect. It doesn't have to be a novel, just express in the strongest terms possible your outrage and disgust at their inaction (the NGBs that is), their secrecy, and lack of transparency at letting the general public they claim to represent know. I mean this happen overnight, they knew it was coming.

    Then write to the Minister's, TDs, etc. and again very briefly explain why you find it to be pointless, harmless, and counter productive.
    Can anyone tell me which groups are involved in this? Excuse the ignorance
    NARGC, NASRPC, NRAI, Sport Coalition, would be a good starting point. They sit on the FCP afaik. The problem with the sports coalition is they represent "splinter groups" so i need to find out who the others ones are. By splinter groups i mean when the sc was founded some of the RFDs joined it and some did not.So the splinter RFDs created their own association and joined the sc as that group. Same with range operators.


    More importantly when writing make sure to address the letters to the people sitting on the review committee too. The same letter will do, in the short time frame we find ourselves in, for all people and associations.

    I'll try track down the list of names and e-mails for people to use.



    I keep highlighting certain parts, but trust me if this gets legs we will find ourselves sitting at home each night wondering how we lost night shooting.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

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    #41
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,463 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    wirehairmax wrote: »
    Who is on the FCP at this moment?
    As above i'm not sure of all of them but afaik:
    • IFA
    • NARGC
    • NRAI
    • NASRPC
    • Sports Coalition
    • Range Operators
    • Firearm Dealers Association
    What groups are left in the Sports Coalition?
    According to their website:
    • WA1500
    • Irish Clay Pigeon Shooter Association
    • Range operators Association of Ireland (not to be confused with those that did not join it)
    • National Silhouette Association
    • Irish Bullseye
    • Irish Firearm Dealers Association (again does not represent them all)
    • Salmon Anglers association
    Who is leading the Sports Coalition?
    Paul Walsh, Acting Chairman. Owner and operator of East Coast Dog and Gun.

    So you know who to contact in the Sports Coalition.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

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    #42
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,463 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Only list i can find so far on those that sat/sit on the review committee.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

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    #43
    wirehairmax
    Registered Users Posts: 678 ✭✭✭wirehairmax


    Cass wrote: »
    As above i'm not sure of all of them but afaik:
    • IFA
    • NARGC
    • NRAI
    • NASRPC
    • Sports Coalition
    • Range Operators
    • Firearm Dealers Association

    I dont think the NARGC are on it right now, they were under the umbrella of the SC but when that went south, I'm not sure the NARGC got their own representation.

    According to their website:
    • WA1500
    • Irish Clay Pigeon Shooter Association
    • Range operators Association of Ireland (not to be confused with those that did not join it)
    • National Silhouette Association
    • Irish Bullseye
    • Irish Firearm Dealers Association (again does not represent them all)
    • Salmon Anglers association

    So not a single hunting group? And they reckon they're qualified to speak on my and other hunters behalf!!

    Paul Walsh, Acting Chairman. Owner and operator of East Coast Dog and Gun.

    So you know who to contact in the Sports Coalition.

    God help us is all I'll say. Who let him in charge? I think we all know whos pulling his strings in the background.


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    #44
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,955 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    DogfoxCork wrote: »
    I cant believe how the introduction of a tag system wasnt their first choice, by far the easiest option and is demonstrated to work very well in the US. Also the best way to survey numbers shot

    No it doesn't work well in the US and if you want to get rid of virtual free deer hunting in Ireland ,then go right ahead and support this idea. F&G /NPWS decides there isnt enough deer in your area..No liscenses are issued for the entire area,or you can go and play the lotto to get one of maybe five liscenses for a trophy deer....
    The US version of sect 42
    http://outdoornews.com/2010/04/01/over-14000-deer-taken-on-dmap-nuisance-tags/

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #45
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,955 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    dto001 wrote: »
    This will also affect early morning flighting for wildfowl which will ruin this sport. Is there a way of putting together a petition to get to them on Thursday so It is known that these groups do not represent the majority of the shooting majority.

    The only way to sort out poaching is to take the money out of it not penalising legitimate sporting people. Too many vested interests in this. I can understand the Gaurds but the so called shooting groups we have the perfect way to hunt in this
    country but unfortunately too much greed involved. In my opinion

    Can anyone tell me which groups are involved in this? Excuse the ignorance


    RE the petitions.Yes there is..www.petitions.org or any online petition.You might not get it by next Thursday,but you can land it in the ministers office, and the shooting bodies mail boxes.But then again,we are effin terrible t protesting here,even when it is sitting in front of a computor .
    WHY are you not emailing your reps and the people on the FCP and not giving them merry Hell??In fact you should be calling them by phone and door stepping them on this issue at home and at their workplaces.You want to stop this..Arise off thy butts and go forth and protest online and in person.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #46
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,955 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    wirehairmax wrote: »
    Who is on the FCP at this moment?
    What groups are left in the Sports Coalition?
    Who is leading the Sports Coalition?

    ALL ligit questions,that WE the gun owners of Ireland should have asked and got answers to months ago!!Are we starting to realise here now that we cant just leave any decisions to some elected "sound lads" in our sport and hope that they have our best intrests at heart when it comes to dealing with our opposition?

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #47
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,463 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    RE the petitions.Yes there is..www.petitions.org or any online petition.You might not get it by next Thursday,but you can land it in the ministers office, and the shooting bodies mail boxes.But then again,we are effin terrible t protesting here,even when it is sitting in front of a computor .
    The last petitionn ran for 6 weeks and got 2,000 signatures. We're terrible at this. Letter writing even worse, but FFS, this is not us complaining against some anti group or trying to get our side across. We're trying to defend what must be one of the biggest sports in the country (shooting wise).

    The time for "m'eh, someone else will do it" is long gone. The last letter writing campaign only got some 40 or so letters. Again lads if it's only "Down with this sort of thing" then so be it, but send something.
    WHY are you not emailing your reps and the people on the FCP and not giving them merry Hell??In fact you should be calling them by phone and door stepping them on this issue at home and at their workplaces.You want to stop this..Arise off thy butts and go forth and protest online and in person.
    Yup.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

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    #48
    cavan shooter
    Registered Users Posts: 3,070 ✭✭✭cavan shooter


    Cass wrote: »
    The last petitionn ran for 6 weeks and got 2,000 signatures. We're terrible at this. Letter writing even worse, but FFS, this is not us complaining against some anti group or trying to get our side across. We're trying to defend what must be one of the biggest sports in the country (shooting wise).

    The time for "m'eh, someone else will do it" is long gone. The last letter writing campaign only got some 40 or so letters. Again lads if it's only "Down with this sort of thing" then so be it, but send something.

    Yup.

    In fairness to our Lads there on the Ball, Is every County doing similiar

    Hi Michael

    Further to your phone call yesterday, Cavan RGC did receive correspondence from The NARGC on this matter and we find it very unsettling.

    We have convened a meeting of the executive to discuss but have already sent a strongly worded e mail to the NARGC on the matter, rest assured we are not accepting anything in this document.

    We are at a loss as to how as an association with 25000 members we have been wilfully excluded from any correspondence or discussion and cant help think there is mischief afoot. Cavan have long lobbied and warned about the Sports Coalition.

    I spoke to the National Chairman this morning and he has been swamped with similar calls and mails.

    We will keep you updated as to what action the NARGC are planning as it is advised.

    Regards
    xxx

    Hon Secretary


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    #49
    Backbarrel
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭Backbarrel


    Cass wrote: »
    As above i'm not sure of all of them but afaik:
    • IFA
    • NARGC
    • NRAI
    • NASRPC
    • Sports Coalition
    • Range Operators
    • Firearm Dealers Association

    According to their website:
    • WA1500
    • Irish Clay Pigeon Shooter Association
    • Range operators Association of Ireland (not to be confused with those that did not join it)
    • National Silhouette Association
    • Irish Bullseye
    • Irish Firearm Dealers Association (again does not represent them all)
    • Salmon Anglers association

    Paul Walsh, Acting Chairman. Owner and operator of East Coast Dog and Gun.

    So you know who to contact in the Sports Coalition.

    Can we put up the actual names of the organisations and their various reps?


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    #50
    Backbarrel
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭Backbarrel


    Cass wrote: »
    As above i'm not sure of all of them but afaik:
    • IFA
    • NARGC
    • NRAI
    • NASRPC
    • Sports Coalition
    • Range Operators
    • Firearm Dealers Association

    According to their website:
    • WA1500
    • Irish Clay Pigeon Shooter Association
    • Range operators Association of Ireland (not to be confused with those that did not join it)
    • National Silhouette Association
    • Irish Bullseye
    • Irish Firearm Dealers Association (again does not represent them all)
    • Salmon Anglers association

    Paul Walsh, Acting Chairman. Owner and operator of East Coast Dog and Gun.

    So you know who to contact in the Sports Coalition.

    Can we put up the actual names of the organisations and their various reps?


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    #51
    richiedel123
    Registered Users Posts: 457 ✭✭richiedel123


    Backbarrel wrote: »
    Can we put up the actual names of the organisations and their various reps?
    a

    From my reading of it the groups involved in coming up with the actual report was the npws, wild deep association of Ireland, Deer society of Ireland and the sports coalition. They were the groups who sat down and drafted it. Every other organisation has a say when it comes down to it but they drafted it.
    People should start e mailing these groups and start asking questions. I have e mailed a few but still waiting for replies. Only reply i got so far was from the nargc and they said they are going to contest it in every way possible


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    #52
    richiedel123
    Registered Users Posts: 457 ✭✭richiedel123


    Cass wrote: »
    As above i'm not sure of all of them but afaik:
    • IFA
    • NARGC
    • NRAI
    • NASRPC
    • Sports Coalition
    • Range Operators
    • Firearm Dealers Association

    According to their website:
    • WA1500
    • Irish Clay Pigeon Shooter Association
    • Range operators Association of Ireland (not to be confused with those that did not join it)
    • National Silhouette Association
    • Irish Bullseye
    • Irish Firearm Dealers Association (again does not represent them all)
    • Salmon Anglers association

    Paul Walsh, Acting Chairman. Owner and operator of East Coast Dog and Gun.

    So you know who to contact in the Sports Coalition.

    The nargc and the nasrpc have both left the sports coalition and both now have their own seats on the fcp.
    Saying that the nargc will only be sitting at it for their first time this Thursday and the information they got is what brought this all to light


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    #53
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    richiedel123 wrote: »
    The nargc and the nasrpc have both left the sports coalition and both now have their own seats on the fcp.
    Saying that the nargc will only be sitting at it for their first time this Thursday and the information they got is what brought this all to light

    I'm just asking the question here, but did the NASRPC rejoin the Sports Coalition when there was a change of Committee over a year ago?


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    #54
    richiedel123
    Registered Users Posts: 457 ✭✭richiedel123


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    I'm just asking the question here, but did the NASRPC rejoin the Sports Coalition when there was a change of Committee over a year ago?

    Was that not when they left it? As far as i know they have their own representative on the fcp at the minute still anyway


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    #55
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    richiedel123 wrote: »
    Was that not when they left it? As far as i know they have their own representative on the fcp at the minute still anyway

    Again I'm open to correction but I thought it was the old NASRPC committee who left the FCP. Not that it makes any difference.

    Yep, just checked. It was the old committee who jacked the Sports Coalition. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=97492395



    Has anybody informed foxes etc. about these new rules, that they can't be out and about between 12 midnight and 6am at certain times of the year?


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    #56
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    I'm just waiting for the rumour to get injected that this is all the FCP's fault, when it seems that this, which would bring a huge amount of damage to the FCP's reputation, is coming from a group who've a public history of being highly opposed to the FCP...


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    #57
    tac foley
    Registered Users Posts: 5,500 ✭✭✭tac foley


    ...and now, of course, the criminals who carry out the poaching will immediately stop their illegal activities.

    Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

    Has anybody in your gubmint figured out that they are called criminals because they actually do criminal stuff?

    And will pay doodly-squat notice to any limitations foisted on the law-abiding shooters?

    Thought not.

    tac


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    #58
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Tac, these were apparently ideas thought up by shooters. Not the government.


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    #59
    cavan shooter
    Registered Users Posts: 3,070 ✭✭✭cavan shooter


    Sparks wrote: »
    Tac, these were apparently ideas thought up by shooters. Not the government.

    They were thought up by shooters protecting "their" interests and the Govt was happy to sit buy and watch it happen.

    What shooting person in their right mind would come up with this, considering if we dont shoot foxes at night we can name 3 or 4 people that do.

    No one can blame the FCP, its a consultative committee, but you can blame the Gob****es that were involved in this. I lay it squarely on the Sports Coalition of vested interests lap.

    Lets summarise:

    Deer shooting protected from poachers....tick...anyone out with a lamp is a criminal.

    Value of firearm packages for shooting foxes worthless ....tick
    Defacto ban on 223 calibers.......tick (You dont need a 223 for shooting rabbits and you cant use a 223 for shooting deer.

    Safe pass style course for shooters........nearly there on that....wait for the next working group report on "Competency of Shooters"...

    BTW....not everyone involved in the SC are happy with whats happening and they see it as a betrayal, but are waiting for the time to jump.


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    #60
    tac foley
    Registered Users Posts: 5,500 ✭✭✭tac foley


    Sorry, I naturally imagined that this took place at the instigation of your government.

    I apologise unreservedly for maligning your government, who nevertheless are probably thinking, 'now why do WE need to scupper all this naughty gun shooting stuff, when they themselves are doing all our dirty work for us...'

    tac


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    #61
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    "waiting for the time to jump"

    dont-miss-the-train_1242.gif


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