Wives... were you glad pubs weren't open today

Winterlong · 17-04-2017 02:37PM

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

Would you extend this to other drugs?

My husband is from a state where marijuana is legal. It's part of everyday society there now too. A friend of his smokes/vapes/ingests weed around his kids and I think it's despicable.

Adults, especially when they are around children, have no business being intoxicated whether it's from being drunk or high. Children need parents or carers with a clear mind.

I also find it disgusting when I see a child in a pub. But that's because I was dragged around every pub in county at one stage as a small child. It made me feel scared and uncomfortable. Even if I was eating my crisps or some oul fella was teaching me how to play dominios or some card game, I felt weird in my insides.

Is that my hang up? Sure! But if I had kids and choose not to expose them to that, then I wouldn't be sheltering them(the connotation being that I'm denying them something). I would be protecting them from what I know from experience is a very intimidating. When children are around drunk people, the unpredictability of the situation is not fair on them and can be very damaging.

Just so you don't accuse me of being a prude, I drink plenty and smoke weed but I would never in 100 years expose a child to that.

I agree with most of what you said but I dont see a problem bringing a child to a pub for an afternoon meal for example. I bring my own once a week for our 'boys time' together. But it is a meal and one drink and we would be out of there by seven. I dont want him seeing drunk people at his age (6).

R.D. aka MR.D · 17-04-2017 02:48PM

Winterlong wrote: »

I agree with most of what you said but I dont see a problem bringing a child to a pub for an afternoon meal for example. I bring my own once a week for our 'boys time' together. But it is a meal and one drink and we would be out of there by seven. I dont want him seeing drunk people at his age (6).

Yeah, I mean more when you are sitting there in the evening and the poor kids are running around bored or sitting there. They are surrounded by drunk people and you can tell nobody is really looking out for them.

Sitting and having a lunch especially when so many places are family friendly is totally different. I tend to avoid those pubs though!! :pac:

17-04-2017 03:15PM

Tigger99 wrote: »

I've smiled at a few posters that suggest a few drinks of a weekend is normal.

But it is perfectly normal for the majority of people, we don't live in Saudi Arabia.

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

Would you extend this to other drugs?
.

No way, totally against drugs even hash should stay illegal. No comparison at all with drink which is a perfectly acceptable everyday thing for the vast majory of people and in no way something to hide away from children.

I spend lots of times in pubs as a child and have no bad memories at all, always had fun and mostly was there watching sport or if there was a band playing at night etc. I'd have no problem being kids to a pub to watch matches or if a few afternoon pints where in order of a nice day etc. Sure I've even already looked after relations kids both with having been drinking and being hungover on different occasions.

One eyed Jack · 17-04-2017 03:21PM

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

When children are around drunk people, the unpredictability of the situation is not fair on them and can be very damaging.

Just so you don't accuse me of being a prude, I drink plenty and smoke weed but I would never in 100 years expose a child to that.

I'm not going to accuse you of being a prude or anything else, because your opinion, given your experience, is understandable. I completely agree with you too that when children are around drunk people, the unpredictably of the situation can be very unfair on them (including situations where people are drunk in their own homes around children, as many more alcoholics tend to prefer to be where they can drink to excess out of sight of others), and can be very damaging, but I would apply that same logic to any situation in which children can find themselves, and the corollary of that being that for some children, it can also have an influence on their lives that can have a positive outcome on their lives as adults.

The circumstances and outcomes are dependent upon an almost infinite number of factors. For example my parents would never have touched a drop of alcohol, I never saw the inside of a pub until I was about 12 when I went to secondary school in town, my father smoked alright, and it was a generally repressive, fundamentalist sort of piousness and sheltered existence. It was all I knew up until I moved out of home at 16 and quite literally went off the rails completely, revelling in my new found independence, child in a candy store type stuff who wanted to experiment and experience and try everything. That sort of hedonism got very old very quickly, it was shìte basically - rollercoaster highs and lows and there's pretty much a decade of my life is pretty hazy!

I didn't want my child to experience that same childhood I had, and so I've often brought him to the pub for an Irish breakfast for myself, continental breakfast for him, and we'll go for a family meal on a Sunday, or when I go visiting friends who would be shall we say on the lower socioeconomic rungs of the social ladder spectrum, I'll take him with me (not so much any more since my wife and I separated), but all of these experiences take the "taboo" out of what would normally make these experiences attractive to a young man.

He learns that it takes all sorts of people to make a society and tolerance and understanding of other people who are different to him or live their lives by different standards, beliefs, etc, and he has learned to embrace diversity and understanding of other people and cultures which are different to his own, so he doesn't grow up with an irrational fear of people and circumstances that he may not have any experience of, and he doesn't grow up with an overwhelming curiosity and desire to submerge himself in things which may or may not be detrimental to his mental health, welfare or general well-being.

My wife influences him in other ways too, it's not like I raised him on my own, and she would have shown him other perspectives which all-in-all make him a more rounded person who is quite mature for his age in a lot of ways, but he still understands and relates well to and plays with other children his own age from all sorts of diverse backgrounds, and they are as influenced by him, as he is by them.

The point being really that extremes of any point of view may well be understandable if one understands the influencing factors behind them, but it doesn't automatically make one point of view right and another one wrong. It depends as I said on an infinite number of factors, just like the outcome of the OP's circumstances will be dependent upon an infinite number of factors, only a mere handful of which we're privy to here, hence why I advised that the only person who is in the best position to make decisions for themselves is the OP themselves. If I were the OP I'd still be reserving judgement on any course of action until I had given myself time to process such a rude awakening.

Tigger99 · 17-04-2017 03:23PM

Alma Weak Stabilizer wrote: »

But it is perfectly normal for the majority of people, we don't live in Saudi Arabia.

You are missing the point, perhaps on purpose. Describing two heavy sessions every weekend as just a few drinks is trying to minimise a huge amount of drinking.

I think that kind of drinking can be quite normal for problem drinkers or perhaps those who depend on lots and lots of alcohol to enjoy themselves.

Electric Sheep · 17-04-2017 03:23PM

mockingjay wrote: »

Apologies if I misled anyone, I always call them my kids - I suppose we're not really in the habit of saying 'my teens' - but they'll always be my kids xx

However, Teens are my business remember, so I think it is more important for someone to be around during weekend nights to keep an eye on them, to know where they are, or for them to know that when they come in a parent is sober - they'll get up to less. The pitches are about 2km-3km drive from our house, so it doesn't make sense to drive 10 mins to drop, go home for 40 mins, and drive 10 mins back, this is where I meet the other parents for a chat usually - so it can also be my form of socialising - the matches are all over the place on Saturdays and Sundays, the driving has to be done and someone has to support the team!

To be honest, I would expect a teen to be able to manage a 2 to 3 km journey by themselves on foot or by bicycle rather than being taxied about by their parents. I can see the social side of it for you, but the driving is not necessary, it is a choice.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 17-04-2017 03:26PM

Alma Weak Stabilizer wrote: »

But it is perfectly normal for the majority of people, we don't live in Saudi Arabia.

No way, totally against drugs even hash should stay illegal. No comparison at all with drink which is a perfectly acceptable everyday thing for the vast majory of people and in no way something to hide away from children.

I do love you nox, I'm not even kidding. Everyone these days doubts themselves, questions if they're doing the right thing, if their opinions are informed, if the news is fake etc. And there you stand, a ****in rock of certainty and consistency, your way is right and normal, other stuff is weird, and there's not one iota of self-doubt. I'm pretty sure I don't actually agree with you on anything, ever, but there is something very comforting about you all the same.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 17-04-2017 03:29PM

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

Sitting and having a lunch especially when so many places are family friendly is totally different. I tend to avoid those pubs though!! :pac:

Ugh, yeah. Not a fan of kids in the pub after fiveish. Or before five. Or anywhere near me. Ever.

R.D. aka MR.D · 17-04-2017 03:30PM

Alma Weak Stabilizer wrote: »

No way, totally against drugs even hash should stay illegal. .

Ah here now. You do understand that alcohol is actually a drug? So you can't be totally against drugs.

Even if you don't somehow agree with that fact (because it is a fact, have a wee look in your dictionary), other drugs like weed are a normal every day things in some places too.

One eyed Jack · 17-04-2017 03:35PM

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

Ah here now. You do understand that alcohol is actually a drug? So you can't be totally against drugs.

Even if you don't somehow agree with that fact (because it is a fact, have a wee look in your dictionary), other drugs like weed are a normal every day things in some places too.

It's a drug insofar as anything else could be considered a drug due to the makeup of chemicals. To say that alcohol is perceived by many societies as being on the same spectrum as other drugs, is stretching things a fair bit beyond mere dictionary definitions.

R.D. aka MR.D · 17-04-2017 03:37PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I didn't want my child to experience that same childhood I had, and so I've often brought him to the pub for an Irish breakfast for myself, continental breakfast for him, and we'll go for a family meal on a Sunday, or when I go visiting friends who would be shall we say on the lower socioeconomic rungs of the social ladder spectrum, I'll take him with me (not so much any more since my wife and I separated), but all of these experiences take the "taboo" out of what would normally make these experiences attractive to a young man.

The difference in what you are describing is that you are thinking about your child. You care about their wellbeing and putting them first. You want them to experience things in a controlled way. You're not just bringing them to the pub because you want to go to the pub instead of spending quality time with your child in an appropriate environment.

I was responding to some one questioning why you wouldn't have a child around alcohol like it was some crazy concept. If you believe that having your child around drunk people is okay then I'm not here to tell you how to parent.

R.D. aka MR.D · 17-04-2017 03:41PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It's a drug insofar as anything else could be considered a drug due to the makeup of chemicals. To say that alcohol is perceived by many societies as being on the same spectrum as other drugs, is stretching things a fair bit beyond mere dictionary definitions.

Think about what cultural context comes into play when you make this statement.

It doesn't matter whether it is perceived as anything. It is what it is. What cultural norms we place on it doesn't change what it actually is. Despite how much many people would like it to be so.

In 20years other drugs may be in the same favour as alcohol! They'll still be drugs though!

kylith · 17-04-2017 03:44PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It's nothing to do with anyone being politically correct or anything else. I thought the same as you too initially, and there's nothing at all wrong with a man having a few jars, but the OP who is this mans wife, isn't happy with the current circumstances in which she finds herself, and part of that is due to her shifting perception and realisation that her experience of her marriage isn't universal! Her circumstances are normal, the norm for many people who are married, but that doesn't make the OP feel any better about her situation, and that's the most important thing, is the OP's perspective of her own circumstances.

Of course it may well be a good marriage, and given they're together as long as they are, and the OP appeared to be content up to now, I wouldn't be encouraging any rash decisions, but the OP has said they've taken some pointers away from this thread, and if some of the opinions on this thread enable the OP and her husband an even better marriage, a great marriage, which works for both the OP and her husband and their family, well I couldn't say that was a bad outcome. I just have no idea what the outcome will be for the OP, but the only person who will be able to judge that for themselves is the OP herself and nobody else, because it is the OP who will experience any outcome of her own decisions, and none of us will.

Having said that, I would encourage the OP to explore other avenues too besides basing any decisions they make about their future and their relationship with their husband and the outcomes for their family, solely on the opinions of strangers on the internet.

Your point seems to be that she wasn't too unhappy until she realised that everyone else didn't put up with it too, and that therefore her unhappiness is partly our fault for telling her that not every relationship is like that.

50 years ago we could have been having the conversation with the OP talking about how nice it is when her husband doesn't hit her, and being surprised to learn that not all husbands do that.

Cue people saying 'OMG, you can't equate smacking your wife around with having a few beers on a Saturday night', and while domestic abuse is obviously worse they're both still things that at one point were considered perfectly normal, but we now accept that domestic violence is totally wrong. Thankfully the time of men getting their wages and heading straight to the pub to drink them and leaving their families the leftovers is passing too.

meeeeh · 17-04-2017 03:52PM

Why are there always only extreme options. I've been in plenty of pubs as a child, started drinking wine every so often with lunch at 14 and dad went to his local every Friday playing cards for cents. We would be in a pub only for one drink, I was probably properly drunk for the first time when I was 17. Dad would get drunk maybe couple of times per year and every Saturday he would be up at seven working or doing whatever was needed. I am around alcohol my whole life but luckily my parents had healthy attitude to alcohol. There is no need to be completely dry but personally I would expect some responsible behavior and restraint when you have kids (and if you don't).
I couldn't tolerate the behavior described in op but I also feel no need to hide a glass of wine from kids when eating dinner. And frankly I think that kind of attitude is much healthier than all or nothing approach.

17-04-2017 04:20PM

meeeeh wrote: »

Why are there always only extreme options. I've been in plenty of pubs as a child, started drinking wine every so often with lunch at 14 and dad went to his local every Friday playing cards for cents. We would be in a pub only for one drink, I was probably properly drunk for the first time when I was 17. Dad would get drunk maybe couple of times per year and every Saturday he would be up at seven working or doing whatever was needed. I am around alcohol my whole life but luckily my parents had healthy attitude to alcohol. There is no need to be completely dry but personally I would expect some responsible behavior and restraint when you have kids (and if you don't).
I couldn't tolerate the behavior described in op but I also feel no need to hide a glass of wine from kids when eating dinner. And frankly I think that kind of attitude is much healthier than all or nothing approach.

You're probably right, but it''s very hard to predict how your own behaviour will affect your kids behaviour.

I don't drink, partly because it wasn't the "done" thing for nice girls when I was a teenager, and partly because when I did experiment with alcohol, I never found an alcoholic drink that I could stand the taste of. So, I never bothered starting.

My husband doesn't drink. He used to take a social drink when we were younger, now he doesn't bother.

The funny thing is, every one of our adult children would drink socially.

We would both have smoked when we were younger, too. Guess how many of the (adult) "kids" smoke? One.

I think peer pressure affects the decisions teenagers make more than their parents do, but as they grow into adulthood, then the parents influence becomes more evident.

At least, that's been my experience, for what it's worth.

meeeeh · 17-04-2017 04:47PM

I absolutely agree but my point was that you can have sensible attitude to alcohol and not aversely affect kids.

One eyed Jack · 17-04-2017 04:56PM

kylith wrote: »

Your point seems to be that she wasn't too unhappy until she realised that everyone else didn't put up with it too, and that therefore her unhappiness is partly our fault for telling her that not every relationship is like that.

That wasn't my point at all, I certainly wouldn't consider it anyone's fault here if the OP makes decisions about her own life based upon the opinions of complete strangers commenting on what little they know of her life. The OP is responsible for any decisions they make and it'd be pointless them then coming back and saying "That didn't work Boards, what now?" kind of thing. As I've maintained all along - how the OP processes their experiences and how they incorporate the opinions of other people in their lives is entirely their responsibility. They do appear to have travelled outside the country, enjoy all other aspects of their lifestyle, their marriage and their family, and their husband appears to be a good man in spite of this one problem for the OP. Before I met my friend who was married at 16, divorced at 44 with four children, I never would have been able to understand how someone who appears to be so capable, could be so clueless, and she is clueless, like her personal development stunted at 16 when she married her husband, and now newly divorced she was faced with navigating a world which was completely unknown to her. That's the kind of rude awakening I was referring to when I was thinking of how the OP just got a rude awakening from what must have been at some point a lifestyle she was happy to consider her future. I couldn't suggest she may have been aware of alternatives because I've experienced numerous people who genuinely aren't, and are perfectly contented and happy in their bubble. As I said earlier - I've never considered it my right to interfere with that just because I might have a different perspective. If they're happy, more power to them. It's also understandable that other people wouldn't share my perspective and do see it as their right to interfere with other people's lives, it's not like it will have any consequences for them, is it? It's not like their interference in other people's lives will have any consequences for my life either, so hey - play on, and more power to them too!

50 years ago we could have been having the conversation with the OP talking about how nice it is when her husband doesn't hit her, and being surprised to learn that not all husbands do that.

I think it's nice for you that you think you have to go back 50 years to be having that conversation. I have conversations like that all the time with people, and because I prefer that they come to realise themselves that it isn't healthy, when they do, I'm still there to support them and give them every support they need.

Cue people saying 'OMG, you can't equate smacking your wife around with having a few beers on a Saturday night', and while domestic abuse is obviously worse they're both still things that at one point were considered perfectly normal, but we now accept that domestic violence is totally wrong.

Again, what's with the "we" business? I've met countless numbers of people who consider domestic abuse to be a perfectly normal part and parcel of their everyday reality and their life. I also know plenty of people who are perfectly content in relationships where their husband is rarely ever at home, and they take responsibility for raising their children and are not just happy to do so, but proud of their achievements, while their husband works on his golf handicap or is down the pub watching the weekend footie (I joined them once, purely out of curiosity as I thought I might get in on this male bonding craic... I was bored out of my tree by half-time, and fcuked off after the end of the first match, really not my thing at all, but the rest of the people there, including women, appeared to be enjoying themselves).

Thankfully the time of men getting their wages and heading straight to the pub to drink them and leaving their families the leftovers is passing too.

... of course it is.

17-04-2017 05:23PM

It's very interesting to see the different views on alcohol here. It has certainly opened my eyes anyway, amazed some people think what mockjay's husband is doing is basically grand. Have also seen it argued that not having kids around alcohol at all might be bad for them! Incidentally I like a pint myself but some of the justifications and attempts at equivalence on the thread are genuinely baffling.

Things have changed here since the late 90s, a huge drink culture certainly developed around then but it has declined again and you can see some people on this thread still don't see the issues with heavy drinking and it's impact on everyday life/family, although many now do.

The OP has come across as a v fair and measured person, hope everything gets sorted out for her without too much difficulty and both her and her husband go on to enjoy weekends much more. Also it'd be great if she were to come back to this thread some time in the future and let us know how she's getting on, although of course it's totally understandable if she doesn't want to.

Chuchote · 17-04-2017 05:32PM

meeeeh wrote: »

Why are there always only extreme options. I've been in plenty of pubs as a child, started drinking wine every so often with

You may be reacting to my story of a friend who would never touch drink again, or let himself be near it, after escaping a serious addiction. I haven't seen him for years, but as far as I know, this is still his way. But he really was a serious addict; he said taking a drink (for him) would be like taking a little nip of heroin for a drug addict who'd got clean.

But I'd be the same in general as you in terms of being gentle and relaxed about alcohol, while keeping an eye on it.

At the same time, when I was growing up it was unknown among anyone I knew for either boys or girls to drink before at least 19 if not their 20s. Now it's the norm for teenagers to get drunk, which certainly isn't good for their bodies.

I've noticed that Continentals are astonished at how young Irish people drink - and indeed how Irish people generally drink. The concept of "a glass of wine" is unusual here, usual in France, Italy and Germany.

17-04-2017 05:51PM

Chuchote wrote: »

I've noticed that Continentals are astonished at how young Irish people drink - and indeed how Irish people generally drink. The concept of "a glass of wine" is unusual here, usual in France, Italy and Germany.

Considering the drinking age in contentinal Europe varies from about 12 to 16 I'd find that very hard to believe. Italy has a notorious reputation for young people drinking (it would be underage here but not their with their lower age limits).

Chuchote · 17-04-2017 06:15PM

Alma Weak Stabilizer wrote: »

Considering the drinking age in contentinal Europe varies from about 12 to 16 I'd find that very hard to believe. Italy has a notorious reputation for young people drinking (it would be underage here but not their with their lower age limits).

Friends went to Italy and were embarrassed to hear the proprietor of their small hotel refer to them as "the ladies of the wine" - they said in restaurants the waiters gaped when they asked for a second bottle! :pac:

Maybe it's a class thing?

el_gaucho · 17-04-2017 07:07PM

Alma Weak Stabilizer wrote: »

Considering the drinking age in contentinal Europe varies from about 12 to 16 I'd find that very hard to believe. Italy has a notorious reputation for young people drinking (it would be underage here but not their with their lower age limits).

What part of Italy is that? I certainly haven't seen it. Just because the legal drinking age is low doesn't mean they all start drinking when they get to that age.

Mr.Wemmick · 17-04-2017 07:09PM

Chuchote wrote: »

Friends went to Italy and were embarrassed to hear the proprietor of their small hotel refer to them as "the ladies of the wine" - they said in restaurants the waiters gaped when they asked for a second bottle! :pac:

Maybe it's a class thing?

Were they eating? Wine is mostly drunk along with food, while other drinks like grappa are for after dinner/on on its own. So maybe the waiters were implying that they were ladies of only wine as it wasn't being drunk with a meal or with a snack (?)

The culture of alcohol in Europe is quite different and it's usual that an alone drink/ apero of an evening is with a snack before you go out for a meal, or indeed go home to eat. In Ireland we go to the pub and drink without food, but I guess this is changing all the time.

I have lived in a few countries, and even though I do not agree with the traditional knocking back pints alcohol culture of Ireland, the Irish pub has always been a great place and there's nothing quite like it for warmth, good craic, music with lovely people. When you're not in Ireland you miss it like mad

meeeeh · 17-04-2017 07:14PM

Alma Weak Stabilizer wrote: »

Considering the drinking age in contentinal Europe varies from about 12 to 16 I'd find that very hard to believe. Italy has a notorious reputation for young people drinking (it would be underage here but not their with their lower age limits).

Of course we would drink, young people everywhere do. But binge drinking is really bad in Ireland in comparison to other countries.

BTW I am not saying things where I come from are better, it's just different. I come from a country with plenty issues on that front and both of my grandfathers were alcoholics. I think that part of the reason I have very little patience with abusive drinking, be it binge drinking or less in one sitting but daily drinking.

meeeeh · 17-04-2017 07:19PM

Chuchote wrote: »

Friends went to Italy and were embarrassed to hear the proprietor of their small hotel refer to them as "the ladies of the wine" - they said in restaurants the waiters gaped when they asked for a second bottle! :pac:

Maybe it's a class thing?

No it's a quantity of drink and also sexism. Women are not supposed to get drunk and people would be a lot more judgemental of drunk woman than of drunk man. In that regard Ireland is a lot less sexist. You can be sure there would be no comment if a group of men ordered another bottle.

Chuchote · 17-04-2017 08:54PM

Mr.Wemmick wrote: »

Were they eating? Wine is mostly drunk along with food, while other drinks like grappa are for after dinner/on on its own. So maybe the waiters were implying that they were ladies of only wine as it wasn't being drunk with a meal or with a snack (?)

Oh, believe me, they were eating! I got wall-to-wall descriptions of the delicious meals, every course, that had my tongue hanging out! And the waiters weren't gaping in disapproval but just in astonishment that anyone would want a second bottle of wine.

meeeeh wrote: »

No it's a quantity of drink and also sexism. Women are not supposed to get drunk and people would be a lot more judgemental of drunk woman than of drunk man. In that regard Ireland is a lot less sexist. You can be sure there would be no comment if a group of men ordered another bottle.

No, they aren't the kind of women who get drunk, not at all. But they discovered that the amount of drink that's the norm in Italy (or in the part where they were staying) is far less than in a restaurant in Dublin 4 or Galway or Kinsale.

17-04-2017 11:21PM

el_gaucho wrote: »

What part of Italy is that? I certainly haven't seen it. Just because the legal drinking age is low doesn't mean they all start drinking when they get to that age.

North mostly. Based on people from Italy I work with who were basically laughing at Ireland thinking we have a problem with binge drinking in people in their early teens as it's far worse in Italy according to them.

In general though it's a myth saying Europeans don't binge drink, they are able to binge drink just as well as we or the English are I've seen them do it here and done it with them, I've seen and done it with people when I travel etc. I really don't know how this myth is still being told.

juneg · 18-04-2017 12:19AM

I'm just wondering how much money would a man be spending on two nights out in the local pub?

Murrisk · 18-04-2017 12:49AM

You could easily spend up to E150 across two nights.

Fighting Tao · 18-04-2017 04:45AM

Murrisk wrote: »

You could easily spend up to E150 across two nights.

Depending on he pub. You could easily spend less than half that (€68) over 2 nights in a pub like O'Reillys, Tara Street and have 10 pints a night. It really depends on the pub.

Wives... were you glad pubs weren't open today

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