Emissions Discussion [Split Post]

unkel wrote: »

Aye. And efficiency by itself is not important at all. After all charging in Ireland is free or at worst very cheap (night rates). The only reason it's good thing is that it helps the range so a cheap car like an Ioniq can go 200-300km today. In a few years time a crossover brick SUV / MPV will cost about the same and will go even further because of its 60kWh battery

OK we got it....you don't care about efficiency and you drive fast. Give over about for a while will ya.

It's so disappointing that electric car drivers only care about their pocket don't seem to give a care about that amount of mostly very polluting energy they are using and aren't interested in environment at all.

That dashboard for eirgrid even seems to have pulled the co2 figures. But the way we generate power in Ireland electric cars aren't clean, so yep efficiency still matters.

unkel wrote: »

So what do you drive, Mr Hippy? :rolleyes:

And how do you heat your water?

Oh, I am a complete hypocrite.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Sure the tax payer will just silently pay it , why introduce measures that might get people annoyed that they have to pay more, for instance, the Government can easily, silently pay out fines rather than increase Diesel motor tax by 300 Euro's for instance or increase ICE VRT by 30% etc etc or put an extra 50 C/litre on Diesel, all these things will get the public screaming and the Government don't want to deal with the reality of it all both the emissions problems and the public.

What's the betting the all Island smokey coal ban won't come into effect in 2018 like planned either........

We got people converted to diesel by incentives. I would think it much fairer if we do the same to get them out of diesels.

Why hit some poor joe for doing what he was encouraged to do?

650Ginge wrote: »

Get real no one gives monkies about that....
This just went full circle.....
because if electric car drivers did they would care about reducing the emmissons they generate via power stations.
Power stations that are so dirty we get hit for €100millions of fines from the EU....destroy large areas of bog......we import the coal we use on cago ships....the largest 15 cargo ships in the world create more pollution than all the cars in the world.....

So you have no moral high ground on deadly emissions because you went EV....not yet in this country.

Electric car drivers in the main like everyone else just care how much money they save and boasting that they don't hanging around.

Is it not possible that EVs charged at night can use wind power that otherwise has no use?

650Ginge wrote: »

Yes I would imagine so. But wind generation rates are still very low seem to average under 20% on the eirgrid dashboard.

I imagine there is a lot more than 20% at night. Over 3000 mw of wind capacity on the system as well as hydro if running. If organised right it could work very well. Houses running on pv panels may also be used to charge cars in the future I imagine. It's heading in the right direction but needs massive support.

aliveandkicking wrote: »

Well then that's at least 20% better than diesels (and not even getting into the pollution created from oil refinaries etc. or the fact that 60%+ of our electricity is generated by gas) so EV drivers in this country do have the moral highground on emissions over diesels

Even with that 20% wind EV's are still bigger polluters than petrols/diesels.

If you take a look at the maths you will unfortunately find that it is true. I am happy to be proved wrong here.

Private transportation is a bit of a fall guy for pollution but it only makes up 17% of world pollution, farming makes up a high percentage for instance.

I was totally surprised and shocked when I worked out what the pollution emitted from EV's via power stations was. It doesn't have to be that way and in countries like Norway it isn't. The Ioniq efficiency is a big step forward, when I see people getting 10.9kWh for 100kms compares to the Model S which seems to struggle to get below 30kWh for 100kms.

Makes it worse to see that the electric car owners think that because it is cheap that they will drive more and less efficiently, more kilometres driven, more pollution. More kilometres driven more traffic.

Some experts predict that because the electric car usage is so cheap and at the fore front of autonomous driving that they will make congestion considerably worse. At least short term until cars start to talk to each other.

I hope in the future(and I mean well into the future) that there will only be electric cars, but no private ownership.

Most cars spend most of there time not being used, cars will be pooled and you simple call one using an UBER style app and it will come get you from a base or because they had been routed nearby on another task and they will take you where you want to go and then go get the next one.

I live 12kms from the nearest town, its a 20,000 person town. I reckon the number of cars it would take to service that town would be quite small maybe 50 in total, resulting in minimal waiting times given the right software running it.

Ah just a dream probably. We are stubborn and selfish us humans, then there is the corporate interest to get past that keeps thinking up new ways to sell us more of everything.

Now back to you guys that actually own Ioniqs, apologies for ranting on your thread.

650Ginge wrote: »

Get real no one gives monkies about that....
This just went full circle.....
because if electric car drivers did they would care about reducing the emmissons they generate via power stations.
Power stations that are so dirty we get hit for €100millions of fines from the EU....destroy large areas of bog......we import the coal we use on cago ships....the largest 15 cargo ships in the world create more pollution than all the cars in the world.....

So you have no moral high ground on deadly emissions because you went EV....not yet in this country.

Electric car drivers in the main like everyone else just care how much money they save and boasting that they don't hanging around.

Electricity doesn't need fossil fuel. Our grid might have a heavy dependence of fossil fuels, but we also burn alot of Gas to produce electricity, which is quite clean in comparison. Lets not forget that our renewable sources are increasing each year, mainly wind.

Now, maybe i'm just ignorant, but you'll have to explain how an EV is more polluting than a Diesel car (mile for mile). To keep the thread somewhat on topic, you can even use the Ioniq as the example and compare to a Diesel. or Petrol car. I think it's already been pointed out that electricity is used to refine petrol/diesel.

Give me minute....the popcorn is nearly ready.

peposhi wrote: »

So how do the bloody oil/diesel/petrol gets transported around the world?!? Same cargo ships? The amount of tankers that have sunk over the time and destroyed the natural life in the area...

What are getting so angry about?

I'm not saying diesels or petrol are good....they aren't but electricity generation in this country isn't clean either. If it was the EU wouldn't fining us.

goz83 wrote: »

Electricity doesn't need fossil fuel. Our grid might have a heavy dependence of fossil fuels, but we also burn alot of Gas to produce electricity, which is quite clean in comparison. Lets not forget that our renewable sources are increasing each year, mainly wind.

Now, maybe i'm just ignorant, but you'll have to explain how an EV is more polluting than a Diesel car (mile for mile). To keep the thread somewhat on topic, you can even use the Ioniq as the example and compare to a Diesel. or Petrol car. I think it's already been pointed out that electricity is used to refine petrol/diesel.

Give me minute....the popcorn is nearly ready.

Theres no data for all the toxins that power stations pump out so just have to go with co2.

Ireland electricty production pumps out on average 500g co2/kW. 17kwh/100km gives you about 85g co2/km. Which is very good, but not zero.

If you do popcorn on gas keep an eye on it....it cooks really quickly. ðŸ˜႒

KCross wrote: »

Are these the figures you used to determine that EV is more polluting than diesel or is there more?

Outside of these figures don't you think it's better that the emissions are in controlled power stations rather than on our streets?

And as pointed out the CO2 isn't the pollutant that matters in this case so I think your diesel is less polluting than EV opinion is misplaced.

I agree about c02 but I can't find data on the other stuff.

In fairness the most efficient ev in the world can't beat the most efficient diesel on co2.....hardly brilliant.

A model S can't beat a 520d for co2. But Bmw are likely at same rubbish as VW.

I'm on the electric side here I cycle in dublin I want see the end of diesels.

BoatMad wrote: »

Sorry, these " power station" comparisons are nonsense

try adding back the pollution , co2 and other noxious products used to produce the petrol or diesel in the first place.

A diesel car has two centre off pollution , the car, and the process producing the fuel

you cannot just cherry pick

my electricity supplier posts 40-60% renewables on average, you have failed to factor that in

The point is , its an apples and oranges comparison

The only one you can make is that an EV is a zero emissions vehicle at the point of pollution , a diesel or petrol is a net generator of pollution at the point of delivery

Average co2 figures for electricity production in Ireland are published just look them up. So is the % of renewable that make up total production. Again look it up nothing near 40-60% in total. But I'm sure your supply is right about what you use.

It's buying fuel to make cars move....no apples or oranges.

Fuel burnt in power stations has to be mined, refined, transported too.

Isn't there huge losses on the electricity network too. Even the last piece of that network the electric car charger is only 75 efficient. All those pylons, substations, etc....

I dunno have you ever got any data for yourself and tried to work it out.

650Ginge wrote: »

Average co2 figures for electricity production in Ireland are published just look them up. So is the % of renewable that make up total production. Again look it up nothing near 40-60% in total. But I'm sure your supply is right about what you use.

Pics or it didn't happen...

You are bringing the figure to the table, bring the source.

650Ginge wrote: »

Ah I give up. I'm not standing up for diesel you lot.

But you are. You clearly said diesel is less polluting than EV in Ireland!

I don't know how you can rationally come to that conclusion.

KCross wrote: »

But you are. You clearly said diesel is less polluting than EV in Ireland!

I don't know how you can rationally come to that conclusion.

Read the bits you want to read and ignore the bits you want, thats how it is is it?

I WANT TO GET RID OF DIESELS.....FULL STOP

I WANT ALL CARS TO BE ELECTRIC, THE MORE EFFICIENT THE BETTER, LIKE THE IONIQ

Is that clear enough?

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Methane is not toxic ? like Co2 !

Well in the absence of oxygen it will kill you.

But it could power your leaf if we were smart like those monks outside Navan.