BE strike [Read 1st post before posting]

diarmconnolly · 31-03-2017 06:34PM

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

To the private...

L1011 wrote: »

We aren't going ...

PeadarCo wrote: »

I don't think ...

devnull wrote: »

How profitable...

Thank you. I didn't fully understand the arrangement proposed by the NTA. Surely this is the way forward for the entire country?

How likely is this to come into place if and when Bus Eireann folds?

CIARAN_BOYLE · 31-03-2017 06:36PM

diarmconnolly wrote: »

Thank you. I didn't fully understand the arrangement proposed by the NTA. Surely this is the way forward for the entire country?

How likely is this to come into place if and when Bus Eireann folds?

That's the way the luas works at the moment and is probably the most likely ways NTA will do it.

The second most likely is having bids, so if you want a profitable route you pay xxx a year, if you want an unprofitable route you are paid xxxx a year.

All route licenses up for auction.

Peppa Pig · 31-03-2017 06:46PM

So O'leary was interviewed by Dobbo on 6 one. He nearly choked when Dobbo told him the NBRU president said he knew about the wildcat strikes, last night.

Dobbo then asked him who was in charge of the union, him or the members. "I am in charge of my union". "Well you weren't at 6am this morning, were you?"

"Sit down around the table, government, Shane Ross" was the best he come out with.

He also admitted it was highly orchestrated and involved NBRU members.

Brendan Bendar · 31-03-2017 06:51PM

Peppa Pig wrote: »

So O'leary was interviewed by Dobbo on 6 one. He nearly choked when Dobbo told him the NBRU president said he knew about the wildcat strikes, last night.

Dobbo then asked him who was in charge of the union, him or the members. "I am in charge of my union". "Well you weren't at 6am this morning, were you?"

"Sit down around the table, government, Shane Ross" was the best he come out with.

He also admitted it was highly orchestrated and involved NBRU members.

Unfortunately Peppa unless you hit these people in the pocket nothing will change.

PeadarCo · 31-03-2017 06:57PM

diarmconnolly wrote:

Thank you. I didn't fully understand the arrangement proposed by the NTA. Surely this is the way forward for the entire country?

It really depends its arguable its the best way but as you can see with the current strike there's serious resistance. The current all out strike is essentially over cutting down on overtime. If all routes went out for tender Bus Eireann would have to start working like private companies. Which means pay cuts and job losses. Look at Ryanair versus Aer Lingus. Its arguably better for everyone including most drivers bar bus Eireann and dublin bus. Unions naturally oppose it. If you have more companies you can't bring everything to stand still and drivers could potentially loss their jobs if a company was to loss a pso contract while on strike. It reduces their bargaining power. You also have the political dimension. Fine Gael who are considered the most "right wing" of the major parties don't appear to have a great deal of desire to go down that route.

Even though it'll be interesting to see what happens if Bus Eireann go insolvent. The gamble drivers are taking is the no one wants to rock the boat and the company will be bailed out. It'll be instructive when looking at Dublin bus going forward as routes are put out to tender.

Mebuntu · 31-03-2017 06:59PM

So O'leary was interviewed by Dobbo on 6 one. He nearly choked when Dobbo told him the NBRU president said he knew about the wildcat strikes, last night.

...and we are expected to believe that the NBRU president, who heard this news which was going to have a devastating effect on public transport today, decided not to pass it on to the leader.

Peppa Pig · 31-03-2017 07:02PM

Mebuntu wrote: »

...and we are expected to believe that the NBRU president, who heard this news which was going to have a devastating effect on public transport today, decided not to pass it on to the leader.

He said he had loads of missed calls .......

end of the road · 31-03-2017 07:06PM

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Unfortunately Peppa unless you hit these people in the pocket nothing will change.

the only thing hitting them in the pocket will do is waste court time, as they have nothing to give.

Mebuntu wrote: »

...and we are expected to believe that the NBRU president, who heard this news which was going to have a devastating effect on public transport today, decided not to pass it on to the leader.

if the leader states he knew nothing of the action then unless it can be proven he did, then he didn't. innocent until proven guilty.

Peppa Pig · 31-03-2017 07:10PM

end of the road wrote: »

if the leader states he knew nothing of the action then unless it can be proven he did, then he didn't. innocent until proven guilty.

It's fairly easy to prove - he admitted it himself today.
Is that enough proof for you?

Quackster · 31-03-2017 07:17PM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

No annual leave just loose a days pay. No strike pay either.

Which is why these actions are limited to a matter of a couple of hours. Minimum cost to workers in lost wages, maximum disruption to the travelling public. If DB and IR workers vote for sympathy strikes, it'll be the along the same lines - a few hours here and there during morning and/or evening rush hour.

There is no way NBRU BÉ workers would have arranged those secondary pickets this morning without the prior tacit approval of their NBRU colleagues in DB and IR.

Hilly Bill · 31-03-2017 07:21PM

They didn't get prior approval.

Brendan Bendar · 31-03-2017 07:32PM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

They didn't get prior approval.

You are right, they didn't.

But let's look at it this way.

By the action this morning they screwed up thousands of people's lives and livelihoods, all with no impact on themselves, but with a huge impact on those who wanted to legally go about their business.

A Union should be responsible for the actions of its members in industrial dispute situations and irrespective of circumstances, if your members behave like what happened this morning penalties should accrue.

This throwing up the hands and disclaiming responsibility is a well worn tactic and needs to be tackled.

The taxpayer needs to be protected from these people.

Quackster · 31-03-2017 07:46PM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

They didn't get prior approval.

As I said, they wouldn't have mounted those secondary pickets unless they knew in advance that their colleagues in DB and IR would be supportive of that action.

Mebuntu · 31-03-2017 07:47PM

...and now they are targetting the schoolchildren of the country.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/schools-could-be-hit-next-as-bus-ireann-school-bus-drivers-to-ballot-on-strike-action-35583148.html

L1011 · 31-03-2017 07:49PM

Quackster wrote: »

As I said, they wouldn't have mounted those secondary pickets unless they knew in advance that their colleagues in DB and IR would be supportive of that action.

We have numerous IR and DB staff on here. None have been supportive.

I suspect the level of support is massively overstated (and was likely massively overestimated by those organising it)

NIMAN · 31-03-2017 07:55PM

Shocking tactics this morning, and one which can do nothing but damage our image for possible investors. Chaos brought to the capital and I find it disgusting to some of the drivel those union bosses came out with on the radio today.

I don't have much time for unions. Of course they have a time and a place, but I think they really are a dying concept. I have been working for a US multinational for over 20 years, and they don't recognise unions. Has it hindered our workplace or its employees? No.

Time to play hardball for the Gov.

Quackster · 31-03-2017 08:02PM

L1011 wrote: »

We have numerous IR and DB staff on here. None have been supportive.

I suspect the level of support is massively overstated (and was likely massively overestimated by those organising it)

NBRU staff. It's clear there's some difference of opinion between NBRU and members of the other unions, particularly SIPTU.

L1011 · 31-03-2017 08:04PM

Quackster wrote: »

NBRU staff. It's clear there's some difference of opinion between NBRU and members of the other unions, particularly SIPTU.

If we assume all the IR/DB staff who have criticised the action are SIPTU, the NBRU must have gagging orders in place.

From the pathetic size of the pickets, I think its pretty clear there was no widespread support from DB/IE staff just as there is absolutely no support from the general public. It was a stunt to get media coverage as the strike has otherwise been mostly ignored, and it has backfired.

How much cash do the NBRU have left? Suspect that may be playing on their minds too

devnull · 31-03-2017 08:06PM

I've always believed that the NBRU were more hard-line and militant than SIPTU so what you say doesn't really surprise me.

devnull · 31-03-2017 08:12PM

Here is the latest internal communication from SIPTU that was sent to it's members yesterday.

SIPTU NOTICE – DUBLIN BUS/IRISH RAIL

Re: Supporting Bus Eireann workers is in all our interests!

Dear member,

Please be advised that SIPTU will ballot all Dublin Bus & Irish Rail members to take Industrial Action in sympathy with and support of our colleagues in B/E.

Why are B/E workers on Strike?
- Not because they are seeking a pay increase!
- Not because they refuse to discuss possible efficiencies- they will!
- Not because they refuse to accept B/E current financial difficulties- they do!
- Not because they created these financial difficulties- they did not!

B/E workers are on Strike because their employer has implemented, without agreement, drastic cuts in Wages, cuts in T & C’s, cuts and reductions in services and will move to implement job losses.

Why are B/E implementing these measures?
- Not because, as has been reported, the Expressway Services are currently loss making- they are, however this is a consequence of various factors including NTA policy!
- Not because the ordinary B/E workers are overpaid- they are not!
- Not because there isn’t another means of dealing with the existing financial difficulties- there is!

B/E are implementing these measures because the Minister for Transport and his Department, through the NTA, have deliberately flooded the bus market with private operators who are not under the same obligations as B/E and are not competing on a level playing pitch. B/E are implementing these measures to drive down the wages and conditions of employment of workers so as in the words of their Acting Chief Executive in a recent letter to all staff “In 2019 our existing PSO direct award contract will expire and if we are to successfully retain these PSO routes, we must become more efficient”.

This is the real reason for cuts at B/E!!!

Why ballot Dublin Bus & Irish Rail members?
- We all know that historically measures introduced in one CIE Company are then rolled out to the sister Companies there after!
- NTA policy is not isolated to B/E it is Industry wide!
- We must protect the T & C’s built up over many years by this Union and our members in CIE!
- We cannot allow the measures implemented by B/E to set the employment standards for Public Transport in to the future!

- IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO!

SIPTU will liaise with Reps from both Dublin Bus and Irish rail tomorrow (31st March 2017) to coordinate times for balloting in each location and this ballot will commence by the end of next week (specific times will be advised in each location). We intend to seek a mandate in both Companies so that our members have the right to hold stoppages of 24 to 48 hours in duration.

We would ask all our members in both Dublin Bus and Irish Rail to consider the above and the implications the current B/E situation has for your employment going forward. B/E workers are fighting for not only their survival but the future of Public Services in Transport and beyond. They should not be alone in their fight. This is a battle we dare not lose and your support is crucial to winning this battle.

In Solidarity,

Willie Noone John Murphy Paul Cullen
Sector Organiser Asst. Organiser Asst. Organiser

Bass Reeves · 31-03-2017 08:14PM

end of the road wrote: »

we don't. be must remain and tendering must be faught against as it brings nothing to the table in my view.

You are incorrect BE is not structurally necessary for this country. Tendering has proved itself successful right across Europe so no need to fight against it.

end of the road wrote: »

there is no signal to be sent as people are allowed to strike. strikes have to happen from time to time whether one agrees with them or not.

Incorrect this strike is going to cause the liquidation of BE so a signal will be send

end of the road wrote: »

the only reason some of the public support the government is they want to attack anyone who earns more then them. if that means supporting a government who implemented unaffordible tax after unaffordible tax against people's will, over workers who earn more then them then so be it as far as they are concerned. but the same public will stand idely by and allow their own terms and conditions to be attacked and driven into nothing while complaining about the public sector unions not supporting them dispite not signing up to be a member.
ross has a lot less public support on this issue then many think. plenty support the drivers, not because they agree with them fighting against cuts to overtime but because they see the bigger picture.

This is totally incorrect over 50% of people support the government on this. The reason we have unaffordable tax after unaffordable tax is because actions like this in the noughties when a government that had access to wads of cash threw it around the public service like confetti and did not carry out any structural change.

end of the road wrote: »

the union leaders would be very happy that the unions continue to stand up for their members. the union leaders earn what they earn because the members decide that is what they earn. if the members decide that won't be paid then it won't be paid. the little man on the street won't join the union so why would and should a union they won't be a member of represent them? if you want union representation, join a union, or if you feel none of the unions represent you then form one.

Incorrect the reason alot of ordinary workers do not join unions is in there case unions have nothing to offer.

end of the road wrote: »

if the leader states he knew nothing of the action then unless it can be proven he did, then he didn't. innocent until proven guilty.

That is up to a court to decide the onus of proof in civil actions mean a defendant has to produce counter argument/evidence so you are incorrect when you post innocent until proven guilty

end of the road wrote: »

there is no proof for that as a bus service is really only a bus service. the only type of transport that has the potential to offer a high quality experience is rail, or even air depending on the company and routes.

Can you verify this if not it is incorrect

end of the road wrote: »

that has to be paid for. nothing stopping all that from happening but government/NTA didn't want to pay for it. we could have had night busses in dublin years ago if the will was there. bus eireann have some night services also.

I am afraid this is incorrect the main reason we not have night services is the sectors that are from the old CIE are too expensive to run them Private sector operators provide night services to Dublin Airport from all over the country. BE in general stops at or before midnight it miniscule late service and resumes these miniscules services at 6am at the earliest. This is proven when employers in Cork Limerick and Galway over the years had to provide company buses to get workers to and from work.

Quackster · 31-03-2017 08:15PM

L1011 wrote: »

If we assume all the IR/DB staff who have criticised the action are SIPTU, the NBRU must have gagging orders in place.

From the pathetic size of the pickets, I think its pretty clear there was no widespread support from DB/IE staff just as there is absolutely no support from the general public. It was a stunt to get media coverage as the strike has otherwise been mostly ignored, and it has backfired.

How much cash do the NBRU have left? Suspect that may be playing on their minds too

Well the pickets would have been all NBRU BÉ staff, DB and IR staff wouldn't have been able to join in, and as they were still maintaining pickets at BÉ locations, that would limit available numbers. And in any case, each picket would only need to have been a picket of one to have the desired effect of keeping DB and IR staff out of work.

Not sure union funds are an immediate concern. Unite has a considerable war-chest and their regional head has made clear funds will be made available to other unions, should the need arise.

Quackster · 31-03-2017 08:18PM

devnull wrote: »

I've always believed that the NBRU were more hard-line and militant than SIPTU so what you say doesn't really surprise me.

Yeah, the NBRU was a 'radical' breakaway faction from what's now SIPTU in the 60s.

L1011 · 31-03-2017 08:21PM

Quackster wrote: »

Well the pickets would have been all NBRU BÉ staff, DB and IR staff wouldn't have been able to join in, and as they were still maintaining pickets at BÉ locations, that would limit available numbers. And in any case, each picket would only need to have been a picket of one to have the desired effect of keeping DB and IR staff out of work.

We had another poster insisting with some severity that the pickets contained DB/IR staff. They stopped posting when they melted away come about 10am.

There is realistically nothing to suggest even slight support from DB/IR staff for the antics this morning. DB staff in particularly are unlikely to have been happy with more potential loss of wages.

Quackster wrote: »

Not sure union funds are an immediate concern. Unite has a considerable war-chest and their regional head has made clear funds will be made available to other unions, should the need arise.

Unite have a hostile takeover of a political party to continue funding; plus it'd be even more of a PR nightmare - "BE strikers reliant on English money" style headlines.

Bass Reeves · 31-03-2017 08:22PM

L1011 wrote: »

If we assume all the IR/DB staff who have criticised the action are SIPTU, the NBRU must have gagging orders in place.

From the pathetic size of the pickets, I think its pretty clear there was no widespread support from DB/IE staff just as there is absolutely no support from the general public. It was a stunt to get media coverage as the strike has otherwise been mostly ignored, and it has backfired.

How much cash do the NBRU have left? Suspect that may be playing on their minds too

In workplaces like BE, DB, IE you be brave to tell anyone your thaughts regarding present actions. Within these companies there is a hardline militant element. These people are of the hard left supporting SF, AAA and PBP. They live in a cocoon and believes that in a socialist uthopia where money grows on trees

L1011 · 31-03-2017 08:25PM

Looking at The Journal there, and it appears that today was finally enough to cause them to lose the thumbs-up war; which has always been hard left through and through.

There is no longer any public sympathy for the strike. Time to look to what happened in Waterford...

devnull · 31-03-2017 08:31PM

If they are getting such a bad rap on TheJournal they must really be lacking in support, since that site normally would be very pro-union and mainly read by populists and left leaners.

Quackster · 31-03-2017 08:38PM

L1011 wrote: »

There is realistically nothing to suggest even slight support from DB/IR staff for the antics this morning. DB staff in particularly are unlikely to have been happy with more potential loss of wages.

I guess we'll know for sure soon enough when the results of the upcoming ballots are made known. There's clearly a cohort within all three companies' workforces orchestrating these wild-cat actions. I sincerely hope the majorities in DB (quite possible) and IR (rather unlikely) don't get taken in.

Stephen15 · 31-03-2017 08:49PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

In workplaces like BE, DB, IE you be brave to tell anyone your thaughts regarding present actions. Within these companies there is a hardline militant element. These people are of the hard left supporting SF, AAA and PBP They live in a cocoon and believes that in a socialist uthopia where money grows on trees

I believen they are called Solidarity now

L1011 · 31-03-2017 08:55PM

Stephen15 wrote: »

I believen they are called Solidarity now

Polish name, clipart logo that looks like FGs. Extremely innovative!

BE strike [Read 1st post before posting]

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