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RIP Martin McGuinness

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Comments

  • #752
    seachto7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,863 ✭✭✭seachto7


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Is it not a great thing that there is no need for foreign soldiers to be driving around on our streets?
    Remember, they came to us, not the other way around.

    There is no need for them to be on our streets, but what happened to them, at a funeral, was uncalled for.

    Back on topic...


  • #753
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,611 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


  • #754
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,256 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    NIMAN wrote: »
    I think that picture is the best one from yesterday.
    Sums up the day perfectly.

    I think it is entirely relevant and apt to compare it to that devastating day that those two soldiers 'accidently' came across another funeral. It is no better a reminder of how far we have come.

    There are of course other images from the day that show how far others have come too.

    And front and central to that journey was the man being buried.
    I think those who want to cherrypick just one image from the day as being relevant, have a bit of a journey to make. Had they just 5% of the courage of McGuinness.


  • #755
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,256 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    seachto7 wrote: »
    There is no need for them to be on our streets, but what happened to them, at a funeral, was uncalled for.

    Back on topic...

    I totally agree. What happened to every victim was 'uncalled' for.
    By cherry picking those deaths are you suggesting there were 'called' for deaths?

    And now you want to go back 'on topic' after having your selective little dig? :D


  • #756
    seachto7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,863 ✭✭✭seachto7


    Oh here we go into a spiral of whataboutery. Their deaths were no more called for than those in Enniskillen or the Bogside or Warrington or the Famine for that matter.


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  • #757
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,377 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    Patww79 wrote: »
    I don't hate any of them, I just don't believe in the 'united' Ireland cause because in my view Ireland is already united and my country would have to give too much to incorporate another state. So of course I'd like to see things settle there, for both my own reasons and for the people living there, but I just don't think the PR nonsense around this funeral yesterday is a sign of things to come unfortunately. Foster did what she had to and will be back baying for blood next week.

    Pat to its absolutely your right to hold that view and I respect the right you have to hold it. I wholeheartedly disagree and will argue against it all my life.

    I hope you also respect the rights of others to wish for the part of the country they are from to be joined with the rest of it.


  • #758
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,377 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    seachto7 wrote: »
    Oh here we go into a spiral of whataboutery. Their deaths were no more called for than those in Enniskillen or the Bogside or Warrington or the Famine for that matter.

    The ignorance of someone who literally just came into the thread to wum and post a "what about" comment to accuse people of whataboutery is amazing.

    Well done on setting the bar that bit lower for idiotic comments.


  • #759
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,256 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    seachto7 wrote: »
    Oh here we go into a spiral of whataboutery. Their deaths were no more called for than those in Enniskillen or the Bogside or Warrington or the Famine for that matter.

    Was the conflict/war all about one side for you?
    Do you realise how much that mindset restricted the finding of a solution to the conflict/war?
    There are lessons to be learned from history and the lives lived by people, perhaps you need to reflect.


  • #760
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    "They came to us"?

    Were you one of the crowd on that day?

    PS my phone has just gone mad, so I can't find the quote or the poster.


  • #761
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,256 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    LordSutch wrote: »
    "They came to us"?

    Were you one of the crowd on that day?

    PS my phone has just gone mad, so I can't find the quote or the poster.

    No, I wasn't.


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  • #762
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,377 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    LordSutch wrote: »
    "They came to us"?

    Were you one of the crowd on that day?

    PS my phone has just gone mad, so I can't find the quote or the poster.

    No more than every brit who claims "we won two world wars and one world cup" was there on dday or wembley 68.

    Semantics nonsense.


  • #763
    selwyn froggitt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 486 ✭✭selwyn froggitt


    Jayop wrote: »
    No more than every brit who claims "we won two world wars and one world cup" was there on dday or wembley 68.

    Semantics nonsense.

    66 ;)


  • #764
    seachto7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,863 ✭✭✭seachto7


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Was the conflict/war all about one side for you?
    Do you realise how much that mindset restricted the finding of a solution to the conflict/war?
    There are lessons to be learned from history and the lives lived by people, perhaps you need to reflect.

    Reflect on what?


  • #765
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,377 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    selwyn froggitt wrote: »
    66 ;)

    I'm proud of myself for getting it wrong lol. The Kool aid must be wearing off on me.


  • #766
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,256 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    seachto7 wrote: »
    Reflect on what?

    The conflict/war in it's entirety?

    As it is relevant to McGuinness's death and a reaction to the diet being fed by RTE and our other upstanding impartial media outlets, maybe start with this.

    https://medium.com/@hiredknave/facts-an-obituary-f1c0d76f1cb3#.ee58jrxng

    I have to say here and now, knowing how the conflict/war progressed and having lived through most of it as a teenager and adult, the facts presented here relating to the period towards the end of the conflict/war from 1990 took me by surprise, so much so I had to verify them.
    You can always learn if you have an open mind.

    412654.jpg


  • #767
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Was Tony Blair at the funeral?


  • #768
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,256 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Was Tony Blair at the funeral?

    I didn't see him.


  • #769
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,886 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Was Tony Blair at the funeral?

    Wasn't there and apparently the suggestions that he would attend were wrong.

    http://www.derryjournal.com/news/tony-blair-to-miss-funeral-of-martin-mcguinness-1-7881106


  • #770
    Noddyholder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 696 ✭✭✭Noddyholder


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Was Tony Blair at the funeral?




    Nope he couldn't/didn't make it for some reason .


  • #771
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,377 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Was Tony Blair at the funeral?

    Nope


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  • #772
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,560 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I didn't see him.

    He couldn't make travel arrangements, but not a principal issue according to the media.


  • #773
    Muff Richardson
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,078 ✭✭✭Muff Richardson


    FrancieBrady wrote: »

    I have to say here and now, knowing how the conflict/war progressed and having lived through most of it as a teenager and adult, the facts presented here relating to the period towards the end of the conflict/war from 1990 took me by surprise, so much so I had to verify them.
    You can always learn if you have an open mind.

    What surprised you exactly?

    Also why does a chart titled "Civilian Deaths" include pretty much every group which would fit the definition of a civilian in a conflict. Most confusingly British Security Forces?


  • #774
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,886 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Muff Richardson wrote: »

    Also why does a chart titled "Civilian Deaths" include pretty much every group which would fit the definition of a civilian in a conflict. Most confusingly British Security Forces?
    It's referring to who killed the civilians.


  • #775
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,256 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Muff Richardson wrote: »
    What surprised you exactly?
    The extent to which Loyalists ramped up the killing.
    Genuinely surprised me.
    Also why does a chart titled "Civilian Deaths" include pretty much every group which would fit the definition of a civilian in a conflict. Most confusingly British Security Forces?

    Not sure I understand what you mean? The graphic show civilians killed by the different groups.


  • #776
    Muff Richardson
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,078 ✭✭✭Muff Richardson


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    The extent to which Loyalists ramped up the killing.
    Genuinely surprised me.

    Not sure I understand what you mean? The graphic show civilians killed by the different groups.

    sorry, left out "which doesn't fit the definition of a civilian"...

    I was confused by the title of the chart and read it to be those that were 'killed' and not 'killed by'


  • #777
    seachto7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,863 ✭✭✭seachto7


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    The conflict/war in it's entirety?

    As it is relevant to McGuinness's death and a reaction to the diet being fed by RTE and our other upstanding impartial media outlets, maybe start with this.

    https://medium.com/@hiredknave/facts-an-obituary-f1c0d76f1cb3#.ee58jrxng

    I have to say here and now, knowing how the conflict/war progressed and having lived through most of it as a teenager and adult, the facts presented here relating to the period towards the end of the conflict/war from 1990 took me by surprise, so much so I had to verify them.
    You can always learn if you have an open mind.

    412654.jpg

    Wow, like a league table...

    I'm aware of the stats. I don't need lecturing.


  • #778
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,256 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    seachto7 wrote: »
    Wow, like a league table...

    I'm aware of the stats. I don't need lecturing.

    No, this is a league table,

    3414.LeagueTable2.jpg
    where there is a clear 'winner'. Unfortunately in the cataloguing of deaths there are no winners, just losers.

    You can though 'win the peace' and if you look at who had the greatest difficulty putting out their hand yesterday (another iconic photo) then I think there is a winner (or somebody in the lead) there.
    And that is in no way to be triumphalist, just a statement of fact.


  • #779
    Snickers Man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭Snickers Man


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    10p527o.jpg

    Wee girl in a red coat amidst a sea of monochrome characters.

    Very Schindler's List.


  • #780
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,785 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    The conflict/war in it's entirety?

    As it is relevant to McGuinness's death and a reaction to the diet being fed by RTE and our other upstanding impartial media outlets, maybe start with this.

    https://medium.com/@hiredknave/facts-an-obituary-f1c0d76f1cb3#.ee58jrxng

    I have to say here and now, knowing how the conflict/war progressed and having lived through most of it as a teenager and adult, the facts presented here relating to the period towards the end of the conflict/war from 1990 took me by surprise, so much so I had to verify them.
    You can always learn if you have an open mind.

    412654.jpg

    If not already done - can you post that at RTE on Twitter?


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  • #781
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,785 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Snickers Man wrote: »
    Wee girl in a red coat amidst a sea of monochrome characters.

    Very Schindler's List.

    Wee girl?

    Hard to tell whether your use of such reductive terminology was intentional..


This discussion has been closed.
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