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Too poor to buy sanitary towels

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    #452
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    The big issue is that while lots of people on SW/low income are possessed of the skills needed to prioritise, budget, manage their lives and that of their families, an increasing amount do not, and are being lead to believe by the high profile left wing movement that they don't need to acquire these skills, that the state will provide endlessly and if the State balks at its "duty" you can create a stink and bring the state to heel.


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    #453
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #454
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #455
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    Widdershins wrote: »
    I'm thinking of Irish and English people. Do those studies involve them?
    Maybe there is some kind of cultural difference in the U.S.
    Yes, people who do all of the above and try their best against the odds would be insulted. You don't seem to believe they exist.

    Widdershins do you work or volunteer with low income/disadvantaged families?
    I do and my experiences would be on a par with permabears. I'm interested to know how you have reached an entirely different conclusion?


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    #456
    Widdershins
    Registered Users Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    It's not denialism. It's an objection to stereotyping. I accept that the poor have worse educational outcomes. I don't think your view of the reasons for continual hardship accurately reflect the circumstances and efforts of economically poor people that I have known.


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    #457
    Widdershins
    Registered Users Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    infogiver wrote: »
    Widdershins do you work or volunteer with low income/disadvantaged families?
    I do and my experiences would be on a par with permabears. I'm interested to know how you have reached an entirely different conclusion?

    I would prefer not to be specific but I have some experience in a voluntary capacity. And some personal experience.

    These people are probably less likely to come to the attention of professionals or be featured in studies.


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    #458
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #459
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,586 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    I am 'on the left' and I never said this and don't think it.

    Stop with your generalisations and strawman arguments please.


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    #460
    up for anything
    Registered Users Posts: 5,776 ✭✭✭up for anything


    I haven't read the whole thread as I got bored a few pages in when it descended into the usual AH bickering about welfare scroungers and the like.

    I don't know if anyone pointed out that while a pack of sanitary towels can be bought in Lidl or Aldi or own branded in Supervalu and Dunnes for under a euro that they are fecking terrible. They feel nasty, and bunch up or disintegrate under 'pressure' and they certainly don't keep you dry once any liquid seeps into them. They are one product where the expensive branded option has the edge.


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    #461
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    Whatever else is up for debate here, what is obvious is that if children are arriving at school hungry and without their basic needs being met and unable to read or write because of home circumstances, that the current system is broken and must be fixed.
    Flinging money at the problem for 40 years hasn't worked neither has patting people on the head and telling them that it's all the Governments fault hasn't worked either, so I'm interested to know what posters here think should happen next.


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    #462
    hungry hypno toad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 646 ✭✭✭hungry hypno toad


    infogiver wrote: »
    Whatever else is up for debate here, what is obvious is that if children are arriving at school hungry and without their basic needs being met and unable to read or write because of home circumstances, that the current system is broken and must be fixed.
    Flinging money at the problem for 40 years hasn't worked neither has patting people on the head and telling them that it's all the Governments fault hasn't worked either, so I'm interested to know what posters here think should happen next.

    Fling more money is the only suggestion I have seen in this thread.


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    #463
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    hungry hypno toad wrote: »
    Fling more money is the only suggestion I have seen in this thread.

    No. No more money. It's not worked. Our SW system is crippled. People not in a position to go to work because they are caring for sick loved ones at home currently only get €16 more per week then people who have been unable to "find" a job for years. People bedridden or otherwise incapacitated for years so unfit for work get the same as those unable to find work for the same length of time.
    Pensioners with household income of €1000 per week get the same help with electricity bills free tv license and free travel as those on non Con pension of €233.
    It's crazy and it has to stop


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    #464
    hungry hypno toad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 646 ✭✭✭hungry hypno toad


    infogiver wrote: »
    No. No more money. It's not worked. Our SW system is crippled. People not in a position to go to work because they are caring for sick loved ones at home currently only get €16 more per week then people who have been unable to "find" a job for years. People bedridden or otherwise incapacitated for years so unfit for work get the same as those unable to find work for the same length of time.
    Pensioners with household income of €1000 per week get the same help with electricity bills free tv license and free travel as those on non Con pension of €233.
    It's crazy and it has to stop

    Steadyeddie and co would strongly disagree.


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    #465
    SILVAMAN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 730 ✭✭✭SILVAMAN




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    #466
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    hungry hypno toad wrote: »
    Steadyeddie and co would strongly disagree.

    I'd like to hear their argument.


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    #467
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    hungry hypno toad wrote: »
    Fling more money is the only suggestion I have seen in this thread.

    This coming from a man who suggested parental education and foster care. A combination that would add to our welfare bill ;)


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    #468
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    hungry hypno toad wrote: »
    Fling more money is the only suggestion I have seen in this thread.

    No it's not.

    I've suggested a voucher system for essential items so that cash can't be diverted from purchasing them with benefit payments. It's been suggested more than once.


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    #469
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    This coming from a man who suggested parental education and foster care. A combination that would add to our welfare bill ;)

    Well if the parents haven't got the skills they need to meet their children's needs, and if we agree that meeting the childrens needs is our priority, then what is your objection to temporarily putting the children in a place where their needs can be met while the parents get help to learn how to manage their lives?
    Giving the parents more money to spend inappropriately is not going to help the children.
    Spending that money on addressing the issues behind the poor management makes much more sense


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    #470
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    Candie wrote: »
    No it's not.

    I've suggested a voucher system for essential items so that cash can't be diverted from purchasing them with benefit payments. It's been suggested more than once.

    I think this is a good temporary measure for people who can't manage to spend appropriately. Attending life skills classes should be mandatory


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    #471
    SILVAMAN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 730 ✭✭✭SILVAMAN


    Candie wrote: »
    No it's not.

    I've suggested a voucher system for essential items so that cash can't be diverted from purchasing them with benefit payments. It's been suggested more than once.

    go into any supermarket on welfare payment day and see the trolleys loaded with slabs of beer - goddamned outrageous


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    #472
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,586 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    infogiver wrote: »
    and if we agree that meeting the childrens needs is our priority, then what is your objection to temporarily putting the children in a place where their needs can be met while the parents get help to learn how to manage their lives?
    As far as I can see, their needs being met in this case specifically means getting sanitary products to them.

    If that (urgent and immediate) need is our* priority, that should be done first, and, once that is no longer an issue, look at how come they needed this intervention.

    This notion that rather than just give them some tampons or sanitary pads which they need right now, they should be removed them from their families - an argument made on the basis of costs - is inconceivably stupid.



    our* - not sure who 'we' is anyway, as it's a UK story.


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    #473
    Widdershins
    Registered Users Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Could you squeeze any more stereotypes in there?

    Can you not accept that there are people who don't fit your narrow minded, superior and presumptuous image of people with low incomes?


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    #474
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    osarusan wrote: »
    As far as I can see, their needs being met in this case specifically means getting sanitary products to them.

    If that (urgent and immediate) need is our* priority, that should be done first, and, once that is no longer an issue, look at how come they needed this intervention.

    This notion that rather than just give them some tampons or sanitary pads which they need right now, they should be removed them from their families - an argument made on the basis of costs - is inconceivably stupid.



    our* - not sure who 'we' is anyway, as it's a UK story.

    So in other words, ignore the fact that the parents are totally failing in their most basic duty, give them more money (which they will not spend on basics) and hope for the best until the next time.


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    #475
    hungry hypno toad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 646 ✭✭✭hungry hypno toad


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    This coming from a man who suggested parental education and foster care. A combination that would add to our welfare bill ;)

    Looks like you have lost your faith in education. Pity.


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    #476
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    Widdershins wrote: »
    Could you squeeze any more stereotypes in there?

    Can you not accept that there are people who don't fit your narrow minded, superior and presumptuous image of people with low incomes?

    I don't think it's the posters "image" of people with low income, it's their experience.
    I've the same experience.
    You can't say what your experience is so we're at an impass.


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    #477
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,586 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    infogiver wrote: »
    So in other words, ignore the fact that the parents are totally failing in their most basic duty, give them more money (which they will not spend on basics) and hope for the best until the next time.

    I never said anything about giving the parents money. I said the girls should be given sanitary products.

    You are seeing what you want to see so you can argue against what you want to argue against.

    I am all in favour of investigating how any girl reaches a point where she cannot access these products, and in trying to find ways to ensure it doesn't happen again.

    But now, and I mean right now, if there is a girl who needs sanitary products for her period becuse she is bleeding right now, I'm in favour of giving them to her right now.


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    #478
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    osarusan wrote: »
    I never said anything about giving the parents money. I said the girls should be given sanitary products.

    You are seeing what you want to see so you can argue against what you want to argue against.

    I am all in favour of investigating how any girl reaches a point where she cannot access these products, and in trying to find ways to ensure it doesn't happen again.

    But now, and I mean right now, if there is a girl who needs sanitary products for her period becuse she is bleeding right now, I'm in favour of giving them to her right now.

    Yes. Have someone else buy them, just not her parents. Somebody else. Anyone in fact, just don't make them responsible, they wouldn't like that.


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    #479
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,586 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    infogiver wrote: »
    Yes. Have someone else buy them, just not her parents. Somebody else. Anyone in fact, just don't make them responsible, they wouldn't like that.


    As I said: "if there is a girl who needs sanitary products for her period becuse she is bleeding right now, I'm in favour of giving them to her right now."

    If you are faced with a menstruating girl who is using tissues or cloth or socks because they cannot afford sanitary products, what would you be in favour of as an immediate solution?


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    #480
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,177 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    infogiver wrote: »
    Yes. Have someone else buy them, just not her parents. Somebody else. Anyone in fact, just don't make them responsible, they wouldn't like that.

    So leave the child in a state, bleeding into a rag and mortified, in order to teach an adult a lesson? They'd have loved you in the 1950s! :pac:


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    #481
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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