Too poor to buy sanitary towels

JupiterKid

I was on a UK web discussion forum this afternoon and there was a thread about situations where teenage girls weren't going to school because their parents couldn't afford to buy them sanitary towels. Are sanitary towels that expensive? I'm a man and I've no clue but I would have thought that they were a basic necessity, like toothpaste and bog roll.

Quite a few posters on the thread opined that it was a case of bad parenting with some parents prioritising booze and cigs over their daughters' basic needs but one or two posters said that poverty in Britain was so bad for some these days that yes, it was very possible.

Thoughts? And would it happen here?

Stigura

JupiterKid wrote: »

some parents prioritising booze and cigs over their daughters' basic needs.

" To either cut down on beer or the kid's new gear ~ It's a big decision in a town called malice ".

JupiterKid

JupiterKid wrote: »

I was on a UK web discussion forum this afternoon and there was a thread about situations where teenage girls weren't going to school because their parents couldn't afford to buy them sanitary towels. Are sanitary towels that expensive? I'm a man an I've no clue but I would have bought that they were a basic necessity, like toothpaste and bog roll.

Quite a few posters on the thread opined that it was a case of bad parenting with some parents prioritising booze and cigs over their daughters' basic needs but one or two posters said that poverty in Britain was so bad for some these days that yes, it was very possible.

Thoughts? And would it happen here?

There are people who can't spare the money for even the cheapest own brand products in the Western world today. Sometimes it's because they can barely afford to put food on the table - and to some toothpaste is a luxury - and sometimes it's because of chaotic drink/drug abuse by the adults leading to neglect of the children.

In sub-Saharan Africa, 1 in 10 girls who attend school will have to miss it during menstruation as they have no choice other than 'freebleeding'.

hawkelady

Popcorn and a big grin ...

Ridiculous stuff

the_pen_turner

Candie wrote: »

There are people who can't spare the money for even the cheapest own brand products in the Western world today. Sometimes it's because they can barely afford to put food on the table - and to some toothpaste is a luxury - and sometimes it's because of chaotic drink/drug abuse by the adults leading to neglect of the children.

In sub-Saharan Africa, 1 in 10 girls who attend school will have to miss it during menstruation as they have no choice other than 'freebleeding'.

:eek::eek::eek::eek:

Cupcake_Crisis

Can you not get free feminine hygiene products in family planning clinics?

Tbh, they should be free. Or at the very least tax free. The "pink tax" can ask me arse.

Lady is a tramp

God the parents would have to be awfully disorganised to allow that to happen. I mean, surely it costs less to buy them (e.g. in a pound shop or wherever) than to have the girls bleeding through all their clothes/undies at home?!

There are other options too like reusable cloth towels, or mooncups, which presumably work out cheaper in the long run.

And I would imagine their local public health services wouldn't leave them stuck if they approached them and explained the situation. I mean, it's unhygienic, and horrible for the girls involved, if it's true.

BlinkingLights

There have been fairly swinging cuts to social welfare over there.

For example if you'd a single parent who was unemployed, you could quite easily find they had been sanctioned (dole cut) over some arbitrary minor breech of agreement with the local Job Centre and that can leave some people going without.

I'm not saying that people should be permanently welfare dependent but under the Tory changes the UK has a situation developing where being in very serious poverty is now very definitely possible, and that's without someone opting to service debts or do something silly with welfare payments.

You can literally be cut off.

The direction the UK is headed is not good.

freshpopcorn

hawkelady wrote: »

Popcorn and a big grin ...

Ridiculous stuff

I'm here!

nosilver

Yes. Poverty in parts of Britain is appalling. Social welfare system is third world.

Basic social welfare is about €85 for over 25's, children's allowances are about €23 for 1st child and €16 for other children.

Here jobseeker is €193, children's allowance is €33 per week.

Uk and USA are the two places you don't want to be if you are unemployed

Zaph

Cupcake_Crisis wrote: »

Can you not get free feminine hygiene products in family planning clinics?

Tbh, they should be free. Or at the very least tax free. The "pink tax" can ask me arse.

They are tax free in this country and have been for years. That the myth still persists that they are not simply because they are taxed in other countries is an enduring mystery to me.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

nosilver wrote: »

Yes. Poverty in parts of Britain is appalling. Social welfare system is third world.

Basic social welfare is about €85 for over 25's, children's allowances are about €23 for 1st child and €16 for other children.

Here jobseeker is €193, children's allowance is €33 per week.

Uk and USA are the two places you don't want to be if you are unemployed

Or the arguement could be made that our system is FAR FAR too generous.

JupiterKid

Candie wrote: »

In sub-Saharan Africa, 1 in 10 girls who attend school will have to miss it during menstruation as they have no choice other than 'freebleeding'.

I can well believe it. Africa has the highest levels of absolute poverty in the world. But in the UK in 2017? Something sounds amiss here.

Apparently food banks ask for sanitary items like loo roll, sanitary towels and toothpaste. In this day and age people shouldn't have to go without these items.

I suspect that households with addiction problems might have these sort of problems, where all the available money is going towards drink, drugs and gambling.

the_pen_turner

of all the poor families in my area I think only 2 are actually genuinely on the bread line. ironically neither would look for or accept help to them.
the rest are poor by choice , be it drink or drugs, or just buying stupid cap they don't need. there never seamed to be a shortage of money down the pub or in the bookies. but they never have money at the till in the local supermarket

BlinkingLights

I've a sense Britain is going to "snap" at some stage over the next few years. Things are going far too far right wing and the majority of the population doesn't really swing that way.

The issue in Ireland isn't that welfare is insufficient. We have a good safety net when it's accessed but, you get people who fall through the cracks by not applying at all either due to pride, inability to do it (depression, cognitive issues, social skills not there etc).

The other huge issue here is people will sometimes service debts before buying food and basics. Then the basics come from charity or not at all.

The application process is still too complicated. They need to make it much more straight forward and ensure that those cases are picked up. Nobody should be depending on charities to feed themselves in this state. No matter what their circumstances.

There is also a difficulty of not having a proper bankruptcy process, still! Despite everything... It's still very cumbersome and not understood very well by a lot of people.

nosilver

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Or the arguement could be made that our system is FAR FAR too generous.

In a way, yes, but the other side is the hidden cost of abject poverty - poor education, poor heath, high crime levels, poor integration into society.

Noddyholder

Didn't Tesco not give them out in December for free, or was that just for the Christmas period...











I going now.

Barry Badrinath

The OSDF was set up in the Thatcher era to provide feminine hygiene alternatives to working class folk.

If you, as a more well off person, volunteered to the Odd Sock Donation Fund you were eligible for tax relief.

The odd socks plugged the gap so to speak.

Stigura

JupiterKid wrote: »

In this day and age people shouldn't have to go without these items.

Weller released " Malice " in '82.

The tories are ~ and always have been ~ basically searching for the final solution to the unproductive.

SCOOP 64

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Or the arguement could be made that our system is FAR FAR too generous.

Wow didnt see that coming!

dev100

nosilver wrote:

Basic social welfare is about €85 for over 25's, children's allowances are about €23 for 1st child and €16 for other children.Here jobseeker is €193, children's allowance is €33 per week.Uk and USA are the two places you don't want to be if you are unemployed Yes. Poverty in parts of Britain is appalling. Social welfare system is third world.

It will end up that way here eventually too. We copy everything from the Brit's and we seem to be following the health care model from the US .

Dial Hard

BlinkingLights wrote:

There have been fairly swinging cuts to social welfare over there.

Sanitary towels and tampons are also subject to VAT in the UK whereas they're zero-rated here.

Cupcake_Crisis

Zaph wrote: »

They are tax free in this country and have been for years. That the myth still persists that they are not simply because they are taxed in other countries is an enduring mystery to me.

I meant more so where I am now. In Toronto 1 pack of pads can cost up to $10!

whoopsadoodles

I know some schools here have a basket or whatever in the girls bathrooms from 5th class up. Not sure if it's the standard thing though.

STs can be gotten for a pound and a pack would likely last the average teenage girl's week each month. So £1 a month. It's pretty upsetting to think they can't afford that.

BlinkingLights

Dial Hard wrote: »

Sanitary towels and tampons are also subject to VAT in the UK whereas they're zero-rated here.

Am I right in thinking we charge VAT on condoms though?!

Richard Hillman

Sorry, I am uninitiated in terms of these issues but could you not just ram a clump of toilet roll or tissue up there?

Zaph

Cupcake_Crisis wrote: »

I meant more so where I am now. In Toronto 1 pack of pads can cost up to $10!

That's outrageous. It's a basic necessity for half the population, and while I don't necessarily agree that they should be free, except for those who genuinely can't afford it, could you imagine the uproar if they started charging those sort of prices for other basic necessities like bread or milk?

BlinkingLights

Not unless you wanted to die of toxic shock, no you couldn't

freshpopcorn

They sell them in £ Land in the UK for a £. A packet should last you a while.


http://www.poundland.co.uk/health-and-beauty/toiletries/feminine-hygiene

Lisha

It's always worth mentioning that homeless shelters, Simon, food banks etc will always take donations of sanitary products.
Tooth brushes, tooth paste, baby wipes, razors, deodorant as well as feminine sanitary products are essentials needed by homeless people.

It's fairly shocking that children attending school would not have access to basic sanitary products. Hard to know how we can fix it TBH.

BlinkingLights

Biggest issue potentially coming down the tracks in the UK is a major slide in the value of £ after Article 50 is declared and things start to get weird with market access.

A lot of basic consumer products and energy are going to increase in price as they are not purchased in £ in reality.

That's got the potential to push people into food poverty that are on the edge right now.

the_pen_turner

whoopsadoodles wrote: »

I know some schools here have a basket or whatever in the girls bathrooms from 5th class up. Not sure if it's the standard thing though.

STs can be gotten for a pound and a pack would likely last the average teenage girl's week each month. So £1 a month. It's pretty upsetting to think they can't afford that.

it is pretty shocking to think someone couldn't afford 1 euro a month. most of us probably loose that a month

Zaph

BlinkingLights wrote: »

Am I right in thinking we charge VAT on condoms though?!

The current VAT rate on condoms is 13.5% However you can choose not to have sex, or not to use a condom if you do have sex, so essentially they're an optional purchase rather than a necessity.

nosilver

dev100 wrote: »

It will end up that way here eventually too. We copy everything from the Brit's and we seem to be following the health care model from the US .

Thankfully I can't see that ever happening, though I do think its a little too generous here, but not to an excessive level.

Cupcake_Crisis

Zaph wrote: »

That's outrageous. It's a basic necessity for half the population, and while I don't necessarily agree that they should be free, except for those who genuinely can't afford it, could you imagine the uproar if they started charging those sort of prices for other basic necessities like bread or milk?

I nearly fell out of my standing when I first moved here. Tampons are more expensive again. A pack generally contains 10-12 pads so a woman could EASILY go through 2 packets per cycle, costing about $20 just to menstruate. Now imagine your a woman who is still menstruating, with 2 daughters who are also menstruating, the cost gets ridiculous!

freshpopcorn

the_pen_turner wrote: »

it is pretty shocking to think someone couldn't afford 1 euro a month. most of us probably loose that a month

Now I don't mean to generalize here but in my experience those who'd actually suffer and find hard to buy the basics are generally quite people who say nothing and just hope to scrape enough money together or get things off friends and family. In my experience those who run off to papers/radio stations can often have enough money to buy luxuries whilst complaining they can't afford the basics.

the_pen_turner

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Now I don't mean to generalize here but in my experience those who'd actually suffer and find hard to buy the basics are generally quite people who say nothing and just hope to scrape enough money together or get things off friends and family. In my experience those who run off to papers/radio stations can often have enough money to buy luxuries whilst complaining they can't afford the basics.

the local ones in my area that are all complaining about having no money are all sitting at home watching sky + on a 42 " flat screen.

the ones that genuinely have no money are out working or trying to scrap together enough to buy the basics.

R.D. aka MR.D

This is about children who are missing school because of their periods and people are turning it into a debate about 'scroungers'. They are children. It takes a good while for a lot of girls to figure out their periods and deal with them mentally/emotionally. I know it took me until my 20s.

Sanitary products should be provided free for any girl of school going age, no questions asked. Even if some girls abuse that system (some will, a lot wont) then at least girls who need it will have access to it.

whoopsadoodles

whoopsadoodles wrote: »

I know some schools here have a basket or whatever in the girls bathrooms from 5th class up. Not sure if it's the standard thing though.

STs can be gotten for a pound and a pack would likely last the average teenage girl's week each month. So £1 a month. It's pretty upsetting to think they can't afford that.

Not around here, you can't!

When my daughters still lived at home, I used to stock up in the nearest big town, or cheaper again, ASDA, if I went into N.I.

I used to get some funny looks at the tills, though!

One eyed Jack

JupiterKid wrote: »

I was on a UK web discussion forum this afternoon and there was a thread about situations where teenage girls weren't going to school because their parents couldn't afford to buy them sanitary towels. Are sanitary towels that expensive? I'm a man and I've no clue but I would have thought that they were a basic necessity, like toothpaste and bog roll.

Quite a few posters on the thread opined that it was a case of bad parenting with some parents prioritising booze and cigs over their daughters' basic needs but one or two posters said that poverty in Britain was so bad for some these days that yes, it was very possible.

Thoughts? And would it happen here?

It happens here, but I'd agree with those people who suggest that it's poor parenting rather than poverty is the cause. Parents who prioritise their own wants over the needs of their children aren't exactly a rarity, and it isn't necessarily an issue of their social class either.

ceadaoin.

Candie wrote: »

There are people who can't spare the money for even the cheapest own brand products in the Western world today. Sometimes it's because they can barely afford to put food on the table - and to some toothpaste is a luxury - and sometimes it's because of chaotic drink/drug abuse by the adults leading to neglect of the children.

In sub-Saharan Africa, 1 in 10 girls who attend school will have to miss it during menstruation as they have no choice other than 'freebleeding'.

In other parts of the world girls are dying in "menstruation huts", where they are banished to for the duration of their period.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/22/asia/nepal-teen-dies-menstruation-hut/

It's crazy how a normal biological function for half the population is treated as such a taboo, even in the western world to an extent.

I do find it shocking that families in the UK can't afford sanitary protection for their children. I think that reusable options such as mooncups or washable pads should be more widely marketed. Cheaper in the long run and better for the environment.

The difference between Ireland and England if you are poor/on benefits is is wide and has widened over the years, I was chatting to someone who teaches in an inner city school in the UK, and they remarked that they would never ask pupils to turn off their phones because it could embarrass those with no phones.

Here there would not be a teenager even one from a less well off background who doesn't have a smart phone, they remarked to me that where they teach some pupils would not have a phone let alone a smart phone because their parents are too poor.

JupiterKid

I agree that real poverty might be worse in the UK than in Ireland because of the endless cuts to benefits being made by the Conservatives, and I think it will get a lot worse when the full impact of Brexit is felt. Not good times to be struggling in the UK.

Will there be people out protesting on the streets because of this inequality?

222233

JupiterKid wrote: »

I was on a UK web discussion forum this afternoon and there was a thread about situations where teenage girls weren't going to school because their parents couldn't afford to buy them sanitary towels. Are sanitary towels that expensive? I'm a man and I've no clue but I would have thought that they were a basic necessity, like toothpaste and bog roll.

Quite a few posters on the thread opined that it was a case of bad parenting with some parents prioritising booze and cigs over their daughters' basic needs but one or two posters said that poverty in Britain was so bad for some these days that yes, it was very possible.

Thoughts? And would it happen here?

Yup, it could happen here I find it hard to believe though. Sanitary towels/pads would be the cheaper option in comparison to tampons and having said that not every girl can use tampons. Not to be too graphic either but a sanitary towel may last a girl with a regular flow 4 hours but may last a girl with a heavier flow a fraction of this.

I can definitely understand that people may not be able to afford tampons, as the type you buy may depend on your body, a box of Tampax is generally 4 -6 euro. I estimate my period costs 10euro a month, but understand it could be more expensive for others. Sanitary products are an absolute necessity it's a sad time if one can't afford them, there really should be a free option, there are many brands that are very cheap too from Aldi etc. so it is doable for less than 4 euro a month.. easily.

While periods are definitely an extra expense I find it hard to imagine that people just can't afford them..

nosilver

nosilver wrote: »

Yes. Poverty in parts of Britain is appalling. Social welfare system is third world.

Basic social welfare is about €85 for over 25's, children's allowances are about €23 for 1st child and €16 for other children.

Here jobseeker is €193, children's allowance is €33 per week.

Uk and USA are the two places you don't want to be if you are unemployed

To be fair, the UK is a welfare Utopia compared to the US.

the_pen_turner wrote: »

it is pretty shocking to think someone couldn't afford 1 euro a month. most of us probably loose that a month

It's often a multifaceted issue. Girls in families with extreme challenges can't always ask for money for these things, or if they do then addiction or mental illness or any number of social problems take precedence. Not everyone cares about their children missing school or being distressed or uncomfortable.

There can also be some cultural issues where these things aren't spoken of and the childs needs aren't anticipated. This is much more likely in a very diverse society like in the UK.

It's not always as simple as can't afford products, it's sadly often that it doesn't matter to the person holding the purse strings.

It's also extremely common in the poorest countries in the world. Suggestions about 'stuffing a load of toilet roll up there' does nothing to address the indignity of the situation for children and women in need.

This wonderful man: has brought a viable means of cheaply making pads to the poorest women in rural India, though even the cheapest isn't cheap enough in many areas of the world.

222233

freshpopcorn wrote: »

They sell them in £ Land in the UK for a £. A packet should last you a while.


http://www.poundland.co.uk/health-and-beauty/toiletries/feminine-hygiene

One of those packets would last 2 days or so. The biggest pack of pads is a 16 pack, you are meant to change a pad / tampon every 4 hours - the average period is 5 days in length, that's roughly 30 products a month.

ceadaoin.

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I do find it shocking that families in the UK can't afford sanitary protection for their children. I think that reusable options such as mooncups or washable pads should be more widely marketed. Cheaper in the long run and better for the environment.

To be fair, the poorest families aren't going to be able to fork over £30 for a mooncup for each daughter and mother. I agree it's a worthwhile investment in the long run, but that would be a huge chunk of income for the poorest.

I feel that these products could be made available in local surgeries and health centres for people in receipt of certain benefits. In Ireland, they could be provided for medical card holders with girls of menstruating age, maybe.

I'm not sure how workable that could be mind, but it's the only thing I can think of.

Mrs OBumble

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Or the arguement could be made that our system is FAR FAR too generous.

I've spent a month on our welfare lately. It doesn't even cover the rent.

Maybe too generous for those who get rent allowance but not for the rest of us.

hungry hypno toad

Cupcake_Crisis wrote: »

Can you not get free feminine hygiene products in family planning clinics?

Tbh, they should be free. Or at the very least tax free. The "pink tax" can ask me arse.

Why would they be 'free' for the 95% plus of people who can afford to pay for them?

Mrs OBumble

222233 wrote: »

One of those packets would last 2 days or so. The biggest pack of pads is a 16 pack, you are meant to change a pad / tampon every 4 hours - the average period is 5 days in length, that's roughly 30 products a month.

Haaaa you really wake up every 4 hours at night to change? I don't think so....

Recommendation is every six hours for tampons. Flow isn't constant thru the 5 days.

Here a pack of 14ish pads is 89c in Dunnes.

endacl

Cupcake_Crisis wrote: »

Can you not get free feminine hygiene products in family planning clinics?

Tbh, they should be free. Or at the very least tax free. The "pink tax" can ask me arse.

Can razor blades be free too?