Repeal the 8th Bandwagoning

wakka12 · 13-03-2017 11:10pm #1

https://www.facebook.com/FlipsideIreland/videos/673822969483538/

The views of pro-choice activists without the media airbrushing. A lot of these people's very blinkered points of view are quite counter productive to what theyre campaigning for, honestly its quite infuriating to see how unreasonable some of the women in the video were. No information to back up their attitude, complete morons. While Im sure his video is also heavily edited, and biased, and there are huge amounts of women with good reasons for campaiging . Its still disturbing to see this bandwagon effect occurring and people who just don't care about the consequences of it

me_right_one · 13-03-2017 11:14pm

Its absolutely unbelievable. This is literally life and death of another human being we're talking about. Whatever the reason, and whatever side of the debate you're on, these people are pure sociopaths.

Ubbquittious · 13-03-2017 11:15pm

I couldn't get a good proper feel for what kind of counter productive infuriating morons they are because it's trying to make me log into some book or something face

wakka12 · 13-03-2017 11:17pm

Ubbquittious wrote: »

I couldn't get a good proper feel for what kind of counter productive infuriating morons they are because it's trying to make me log into some book or something face

Yeh sorry, tried to find a youtube version but no luck.

hungry hypno toad · 13-03-2017 11:20pm

Ubbquittious wrote: »

I couldn't get a good proper feel for what kind of counter productive infuriating morons they are because it's trying to make me log into some book or something face

Facepuke?

Lady Spangles · 13-03-2017 11:21pm

me_right_one wrote: »

Its absolutely unbelievable. This is literally life and death of another human being we're talking about. Whatever the reason, and whatever side of the debate you're on, these people are pure sociopaths.

No it's not. It's a clump of cells, a barely fertilised egg, being flushed out of a uterus. It's not a person, or a baby. It's not a sentient being, or a viable life. Just a ball of cells.

And, with all that in mind, what is wrong with giving women bodily autonomy? If you don't want an abortion, or you find it morally repugnant, that is fine. You don't have to have an abortion if you don't want one. But the choice we're offering to you is the same one you're denying to every other woman in Ireland. And that's what it's really all about: choice. the right to choose.

Check out this Bill Nye video about what abortion actually is. And, perhaps, stop dictating to other people what they can and cannot do with their own bodies.

fatknacker · 13-03-2017 11:22pm

It is heavily edited to suit the guys agenda. It's just him firing questions at a select few people and cutting them off before they've had the chance to properly reply. Granted, the ones chosen didn't have amazing responses, but how many were cut out that may have responded in a way he didn't want.

freshpopcorn · 13-03-2017 11:22pm

I personal think the people who want to keep the eighth amendment should be delighted what the repeal the eighth campaign are doing because their just pushing people on the fence into becoming keeping eighth voters!

wakka12 · 13-03-2017 11:24pm

fatknacker wrote: »

It is heavily edited to suit the guys agenda. It's just him firing questions at a select few people and cutting them off before they've had the chance to properly reply. Granted, the ones chosen didn't have amazing responses, but how many were cut out that may have responded in a way he didn't want.

As I said, it is certainly quite biased. But does give insight into the views of a group who are always portrayed as the ones in the right. And I disagree, I think his questioning of the girls we saw was reasonably fair, and practically all of them were incredibly ignorant. Embarrassingly stupid responses from most even

me_right_one · 13-03-2017 11:25pm

Lady Spangles wrote: »

No it's not. It's a clump of cells, a barely fertilised egg, being flushed out of a uterus. It's not a person, or a baby. It's not a sentient being, or a viable life. Just a ball of cells.

Biology fail. Look up the scientific definition of "Life".

Anyway, stop deflecting. This thread is about the mindset of those in the video, whatever side of the debate you're on, as I've previously mentioned. You cannot honestly say these people are thinking straight. Gay witches for abortion??????

RayM · 13-03-2017 11:25pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I personal think the people who want to keep the eighth amendment should be delighted what the repeal the eighth campaign are doing because their just pushing people on the fence into becoming keeping eighth voters!

People said the very same about the Yes side during the marriage equality referendum.

KDII · 13-03-2017 11:25pm

I didn't really get the impression that they had "blinkered points of view" to be honest. Moreso, they were caught off guard by the faux journalism at play. The guy is clearly trying to elicit sinister soundbite responses to a complex and nuanced issue. I think most people in this video came across as evasive as the lad asking the questions had such an irritating and aggressive way of questioning them.

There will always be a spectrum with regards to issues like this. Some will want no abortion ever ever. Some will want the woman to be able to choose to terminate the pregnancy on the day before her due date. These are just opinions and it is the intended outcome of the campaign to create discourse and try to find a middle ground where those who need to terminate a pregnancy can do so safely and legally. This guy is distracting from the issue at hand by trying to bamboozle people by asking weird questions and walking away before they try to answer.

wakka12 · 13-03-2017 11:26pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I personal think the people who want to keep the eighth amendment should be delighted what the repeal the eighth campaign are doing because their just pushing people on the fence into becoming keeping eighth voters!

This exact thing was said over and over again during the gay marriage campaign and turned out to be completely wrong

Lady Spangles · 13-03-2017 11:26pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I personal think the people who want to keep the eighth amendment should be delighted what the repeal the eighth campaign are doing because their just pushing people on the fence into becoming keeping eighth voters!

Oh really? I've been involved in pro-choice for many years now and we're bigger than ever, stronger and more organised than ever. It's been growing rapidly for the last four years, I'd say. Society is changing.

13-03-2017 11:26pm

me_right_one wrote: »

Its absolutely unbelievable. This is literally life and death of another human being we're talking about. Whatever the reason, and whatever side of the debate you're on, these people are pure sociopaths.

It's often literally not

me_right_one · 13-03-2017 11:27pm

Lady Spangles wrote: »

Oh really? I've been involved in pro-choice for many years now and we're bigger than ever, stronger and more organised than ever. It's been growing rapidly for the last four years, I'd say. Society is changing.

If you're pro-choice, you really should be distancing yourself from these people.

Lady Spangles · 13-03-2017 11:28pm

me_right_one wrote: »

Biology fail. Look up the scientific definition of "Life".

Anyway, stop deflecting. This thread is about the mindset of those in the video, whatever side of the debate you're on, as I've previously mentioned. You cannot honestly say these people are thinking straight. Gay witches for abortion??????

I gave you the views of one of the world's most respected scientists and you accuse me of "deflecting". Funny that. You do know what an embryo is, don't you? It ain't a baby.

KDII · 13-03-2017 11:31pm

me_right_one wrote: »

Anyway, stop deflecting. This thread is about the mindset of those in the video, whatever side of the debate you're on, as I've previously mentioned. You cannot honestly say these people are thinking straight. Gay witches for abortion??????

If I threw a microphone in your face and asked you even about your opinions on this thread you've started, then walked away shouting "Okkkkaaaaaayy" dismissively into my camera I'm sure you would still manage to be charming, witty and well-read in equal manner... Loads.

There is plenty of documented evidence of the pro-life side not looking so sharp too. The reality though.. is that it isn't really all that relevant. What does any other citizen owe you that you should feel satisfied by their knowledge on a certain topic? Your post reeks of "who let the women out of the kitchen?" and it's whiny and gross.

Edit: Have just seen you aren't OP. Still, I get the same vibe from you so I'm leaving it.

me_right_one · 13-03-2017 11:32pm

Lady Spangles wrote: »

I gave you the views of one of the world's most respected scientists and you accuse me of "deflecting". Funny that. You do know what an embryo is, don't you? It ain't a baby.

Says who, you? Or that scientist? A human LIFE is worth more than anything else. And I could provide you with dozens of videos from top scientists saying the complete opposite of what you have posted. But I'm not going to, because that would also be deflecting. You do know what the thread is about? It ain't an abortion debate.

freshpopcorn · 13-03-2017 11:32pm

RayM wrote: »

People said the very same about the Yes side during the marriage equality referendum.

wakka12 wrote: »

This exact thing was said over and over again during the gay marriage campaign and turned out to be completely wrong

Well in my experience the repeal campaign are all over the place. Some want abortion for fatal fetal abnormality, others only in cases of rape and incest and then theirs the amount of weeks which they never seem to agree on. This doesn't come across well to on the fence voters because they've no idea what the repeal people want.

13-03-2017 11:33pm

I don't see anything wrong with this ? There is this on both sides of the debate.

Will I Am Not · 13-03-2017 11:34pm

Lady Spangles wrote: »

No it's not. It's a clump of cells, a barely fertilised egg, being flushed out of a uterus. It's not a person, or a baby. It's not a sentient being, or a viable life. Just a ball of cells.

And, with all that in mind, what is wrong with giving women bodily autonomy? If you don't want an abortion, or you find it morally repugnant, that is fine. You don't have to have an abortion if you don't want one. But the choice we're offering to you is the same one you're denying to every other woman in Ireland. And that's what it's really all about: choice. the right to choose.

Check out this Bill Nye video about what abortion actually is. And, perhaps, stop dictating to other people what they can and cannot do with their own bodies.

Did you watch the video? They were saying that it's fine to abort the baby one week or one day, before it's due.
That's not just a clump of cells.

13-03-2017 11:36pm

The Fake Sheikh wrote: »

Did you watch the video? They were saying that it's fine to abort the baby one week or one day, before it's due.
That's not just a clump of cells.

They also sampled an absolutely tiny portion of pro-choicers, I doubt this has any bearing on the mass view of the pro-choice side. Media shock as usual.

me_right_one · 13-03-2017 11:36pm

The Fake Sheikh wrote: »

Did you watch the video? They were saying that it's fine to abort the baby one week or one day, before it's due.
That's not just a clump of cells.

There's no talking to some people. Sociopaths.

Spudgun · 13-03-2017 11:37pm

Abortion is happening no amount of badly edit propaganda changes the fact that women from this country are been treated like second class citizens been forced to travel to another country for a simple medical procedure. If pro life campaigners care so much about human life why aren't they protesting at Tuam?

13-03-2017 11:37pm

Spudgun wrote: »

Abortion is happening no amount of badly edit propaganda changes the fact that women from this country are been treated like second class citizens been forced to travel to another country for a simple medical procedure. If pro life campaigners care so much about human life why aren't they protesting at Tuam?

I am of the same opinion, it seems that once a child is born it's life has less value.

me_right_one · 13-03-2017 11:39pm

Spudgun wrote: »

Abortion is happening no amount of badly edit propaganda changes the fact that women from this country are been treated like second class citizens been forced to travel to another country for a simple medical procedure. If pro life campaigners care so much about human life why aren't they protesting at Tuam?

In Tuam, a charitable organisation tried to save human life and failed. Abortion is the deliberate ending of human life. Big difference.

Lady Spangles · 13-03-2017 11:39pm

The Fake Sheikh wrote: »

Did you watch the video? They were saying that it's fine to abort the baby one week or one day, before it's due.
That's not just a clump of cells.

Where exactly does it say that? Nye goes through the process of conception, the moral point of pro-choice, the science behind it and then tells everyone to butt out of women's affairs.

Spudgun · 13-03-2017 11:40pm

me_right_one wrote: »

In Tuam, a charitable organisation tried to save human life and failed. Abortion is the deliberate ending of human life. Big difference.

OH **** OFF they were selling babies

13-03-2017 11:41pm

me_right_one wrote: »

In Tuam, a charitable organisation tried to save human life and failed.

Presumably the charitable organisation can account for all the donations paid when the babies were sold.

me_right_one wrote: »

Abortion is the deliberate ending of human life. Big difference.

As is malnutrition, starvation, drug trials.

bennyl10 · 13-03-2017 11:41pm

me_right_one wrote: »

In Tuam, a charitable organisation tried to save human life and failed. Abortion is the deliberate ending of human life. Big difference.

A charitable organisation that threw that life, literally, in a sewage pipe.

An embryo/cell is not a human life.

13-03-2017 11:42pm

me_right_one wrote: »

In Tuam, a charitable organisation tried to save human life and failed. Abortion is the deliberate ending of human life. Big difference.

Hahahahahaha....

Sorry, are you serious? They obviously weren't trying very hard with a mortality rate many times higher than the national average. Not to mention all the babies they pretended were dead and then sold to the highest bidder.

Lady Spangles · 13-03-2017 11:43pm

me_right_one wrote: »

In Tuam, a charitable organisation tried to save human life and failed. Abortion is the deliberate ending of human life. Big difference.

That is literally the funniest thing I've read all day. People who terminate pregnancies even before the "life" becomes viable are "sociopaths". Yet people who let living, breathing human children die are "charitable" and "save human life". Who're you kidding? You've utterly discredited all your espoused beliefs in that one comment.

infogiver · 13-03-2017 11:45pm

bennyl10 wrote: »

A charitable organisation that threw that life, literally, in a sewage pipe.

An embryo/cell is not a human life.

All anyone has to ask of anyone wearing a Repeal jumper or carrying a placard is ask them what cut off date they prefer for abortion .

Lady Spangles · 13-03-2017 11:47pm

infogiver wrote: »

All anyone has to ask of anyone wearing a Repeal jumper or carrying a placard is ask them what cut off date they prefer for abortion .

To what ends? What do you think that will prove? Every single person who supports repealing the 8th or extending the UK abortion act agrees on one fundamental thing: all women deserve to have a choice.

retro:electro · 13-03-2017 11:49pm

I'm pro- choice, and I feel the girls in that video are utterly offensive and moronic. Shouting for the sake of shouting. The militance is so off puttng for a campaign that should be respectful, reasoned and sympathetic. Aborting a baby a week before it's due? She thinks that's okay? That makes me feel a bit sick to be honest.

13-03-2017 11:51pm

anna080 wrote: »

I'm pro- choice, and I feel the girls in that video are utterly offensive and moronic. Shouting for the sake of shouting. The militance is so off puttng for a campaign that should be respectful, reasoned and sympathetic. Aborting a baby a week before it's due? She thinks that's okay? That makes me feel a bit sick to be honest.

The thing about videos is you never see the parts that have been cut or the parts that have been deliberately omitted. That video showed a handful of people, a tiny tinsey portion of "pro-lifers".

Woodhenge · 13-03-2017 11:51pm

So Nye's point is that some fertilised eggs do not implant and even some that do fail to develop. People die for all sorts of reasons, so murder is just another headstone for the graveyard? That's really his point on abortions, even after weeks or months of gestation? That's not a 'science' point, that's a 'I'm personally comfortable with ending life at x weeks' point.

Lady Spangles · 13-03-2017 11:52pm

anna080 wrote: »

I'm pro- choice, and I feel the girls in that video are utterly offensive and moronic. Shouting for the sake of shouting. The militance is so off puttng for a campaign that should be respectful, reasoned and sympathetic. Aborting a baby a week before it's due? She thinks that's okay? That makes me feel a bit sick to be honest.

We've tried "being nice" and being "polite". It gets you nowhere. You have to make your voice heard, you have to take a stand otherwise the campaign will be totally ignored. It's no good saying "Protest" and then adding, "but wait! Not like that!"

13-03-2017 11:52pm

wakka12 wrote: »

This exact thing was said over and over again during the gay marriage campaign and turned out to be completely wrong

I hope you are right but I fear people will be pushed to the other side this time. The repeal side are running a very bad campaign and I am a repeal voter.

Lady Spangles · 13-03-2017 11:54pm

Woodhenge wrote: »

So Nye's point is that some fertilised eggs do not implant and even some that do fail to develop. People die for all sorts of reasons, so murder is just another headstone for the graveyard? That's really his point on abortions, even after weeks or months of gestation? That's not a 'science' point, that's a 'I'm personally comfortable with ending life at x weeks' point.

He's saying an embryo is not a viable human life, so butt out of women's bodies.

infogiver · 13-03-2017 11:55pm

Lady Spangles wrote: »

To what ends? What do you think that will prove? Every single person who supports repealing the 8th or extending the UK abortion act agrees on one fundamental thing: all women deserve to have a choice.

It's not just "all women deserve to have a choice ".
It's "I 100% support every woman in the choice that she makes".
What a lot of people actually mean is "I 100% support every woman in the choice that she makes AS LONG AS SHE MAKES IT BEFORE SHES 12 weeks pregnant ".
If you point out that's just a little bit more then 25% support then it's starts to get a bit stressful.

retro:electro · 13-03-2017 11:56pm

Lady Spangles wrote: »

We've tried "being nice" and being "polite". It gets you nowhere. You have to make your voice heard, you have to take a stand otherwise the campaign will be totally ignored. It's no good saying "Protest" and then adding, "but wait! Not like that!"

Well my thoughts and sympathies are with the women who wanted more than anything to carry a baby, but whose pregnancies were not viable for whatever reason and had to terminate abroad. How are those women meant to relate to a group of 16 years olds running around with fanny hats on and crude signs about fcuking politicians? The Repeal is so needlessly alienating.

AtomicHorror · 14-03-2017 12:00am

wakka12 wrote: »

https://www.facebook.com/FlipsideIreland/videos/673822969483538/

The views of pro-choice activists without the media airbrushing.

Sure that video isn't airbrushed, more Microsoft Paint. Just someone else's reframing, but done ham fisted as ****.

freshpopcorn · 14-03-2017 12:01am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I hope you are right but I fear people will be pushed to the other side this time. The repeal side are running a very bad campaign and I am a repeal voter.

During the marriage referendum the yes and no campaign knew what they wanted. So it was a clear choice on what you were voting for. If you ask some of the people in involved in the repeal campaign what they wanted they'd have different opinions.
Whilst the people who want to keep the eight are all on the same page!

retro:electro · 14-03-2017 12:01am

Lady Spangles wrote: »

To what ends? What do you think that will prove? Every single person who supports repealing the 8th or extending the UK abortion act agrees on one fundamental thing: all women deserve to have a choice.

You do know that if the 8th was repealed tomorrow, abortion on demand would still be illegal in this country under the 2013 PLPA, you know that right?

Woodhenge · 14-03-2017 12:01am

Lady Spangles wrote: »

He's saying an embryo is not a viable human life, so butt out of women's bodies.

If viability means self-supporting then a newborn is no more viable than an embryo. Human infants will die quite quickly if not given food, assistance and care.

infogiver · 14-03-2017 12:02am

anna080 wrote: »

Well my thoughts and sympathies are with the women who wanted more than anything to carry a baby, but whose pregnancies were not viable for whatever reason and had to terminate abroad. How are those women meant to relate to a group of 16 years olds running around with fanny hats on and crude signs about fcuking politicians? The Repeal is so needlessly alienating.

The Repeal side knew they were never ever going to get a big crowd of fully grown up real women to come out and March so they had to take the teenagers out of college to bulk out the crowd for the cameras.

Lady Spangles · 14-03-2017 12:03am

anna080 wrote: »

Well my thoughts and sympathies are with the women who wanted more than anything to carry a baby, but whose pregnancies were not viable for whatever reason and had to terminate abroad. How are those women meant to relate to a group of 16 years olds running around with fanny hats on and crude signs about fcuking politicians? The Repeal is so needlessly alienating.

All our thoughts and sympathies would be with anyone who could not carry a pregnancy to term. In essence, they have not chosen to end their pregnancy; it has in fact been forced on them by a cruel twist of nature. What's more cruel is that they're forced to go to England, or they're stuck in a terrible limbo here in Ireland. Rape and sexual abuse victims are others who find this whole campaign triggering.

But the pro-choice campaign must make noise and be as visible as possible. It must make waves, or it will be under rug swept yet again. We can't afford to let that happen, otherwise the suffering will continue. If the state didn't continue to impose these draconian laws, then none of us would be in this terrible situation.

......... · 14-03-2017 12:03am

Lady Spangles wrote: »

That is literally the funniest thing I've read all day. People who terminate pregnancies even before the "life" becomes viable are "sociopaths". Yet people who let living, breathing human children die are "charitable" and "save human life". Who're you kidding? You've utterly discredited all your espoused beliefs in that one comment.

Ironically, if they had killed kids before they could be born, they would have gotten away with it in today's spin, and be held up as model pro choice pioneers.

Lady Spangles · 14-03-2017 12:04am

Woodhenge wrote: »

If viability means self-supporting then a newborn is no more viable than an embryo. Human infants will die quite quickly if not given food, assistance and care.

That's completely different and I get the feeling you're being deliberately obtuse. The baby can survive beyond the womb. the embryo most certainly can't. It's just a clump of cells. Same for the foetus up to 24 weeks.

Repeal the 8th Bandwagoning

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