Off The Ball Official Thread <Mod Note - Post #1, #533, #6651>

Loafing Oaf · 09-03-2017 09:16PM

How is Barcelona last night like Lance Armstrong?

Lt Dan · 09-03-2017 09:18PM

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

What? :eek:

Whatever happened to the beautiful game?

Whatever happened to the Gordon Strachen's of this world bringing out the Celtic Tea ladies during the cup ceremony?

It is a cold hard day . Football has died

Tell me how · 09-03-2017 11:35PM

Loafing Oaf wrote:

How is Barcelona last night like Lance Armstrong?

Ritchie's point was Suarez dived in order to win penalty ergo he cheated ergo it was no different to LA cheating to win bike races.

He was making the point that they spent half an hour discussing doping in cycling with Ross Tucker and how shameful it was but still lauded Barcelona yet one of their players did something which was (in his mind) essentially the same thing.

pc7 · 10-03-2017 02:04PM

Enjoyed Ross Tucker last night

Jayesdiem · 10-03-2017 02:17PM

pc7 wrote: »

Enjoyed Ross Tucker last night

So did I but probably not for the reasons you did? I'm not sure if it is Joe or Ger speaking but I just can't get over their creepy obsession with drugs in sport and resultant conclusion that everything they are seeing is somehow "fake". How is this? Are the athletes who dope not actually carrying out these athletic tasks themselves? Is it an (actual) optical illusion? I mean, for crying our loud, Joe went after L-Carnitine the other day! L-Carnitine! My near-pension aged mother takes that stuff. The naivety of it all perplexes me. Drugs in sport are a reality and if the likes of Wiggins, Farah and our own athletes who have been caught have indeed taken drugs, it does not make them evil people.

elefant · 10-03-2017 02:24PM

Jayesdiem wrote: »

So did I but probably not for the reasons you did? I'm not sure if it is Joe or Ger speaking but I just can't get over their creepy obsession with drugs in sport and resultant conclusion that everything they are seeing is somehow "fake". How is this? Are the athletes who dope not actually carrying out these athletic tasks themselves? Is it an (actual) optical illusion? I mean, for crying our loud, Joe went after L-Carnitine the other day! L-Carnitine! My near-pension aged mother takes that stuff. The naivety of it all perplexes me. Drugs in sport are a reality and if the likes of Wiggins, Farah and our own athletes who have been caught have indeed taken drugs, it does not make them evil people.

If it's the same segment I'm thinking of, they had an expert talking about a time when Salazar dosed one of the coaches at the Nike project with high levels of L-Carnitine, and his performance levels were dramatically increased to the point he wasn't struggling to keep up with Mo Farah and Galen Rupp on a training run. Salazar freaked out at how effective it was. It doesn't sound harmless to me.

And nobody said anything about 'evil'. It's still wrong, and imo should rightfully be kept in the spotlight.

Jayesdiem · 10-03-2017 03:26PM

elefant wrote: »

Jayesdiem wrote: »

So did I but probably not for the reasons you did? I'm not sure if it is Joe or Ger speaking but I just can't get over their creepy obsession with drugs in sport and resultant conclusion that everything they are seeing is somehow "fake". How is this? Are the athletes who dope not actually carrying out these athletic tasks themselves? Is it an (actual) optical illusion? I mean, for crying our loud, Joe went after L-Carnitine the other day! L-Carnitine! My near-pension aged mother takes that stuff. The naivety of it all perplexes me. Drugs in sport are a reality and if the likes of Wiggins, Farah and our own athletes who have been caught have indeed taken drugs, it does not make them evil people.

If it's the same segment I'm thinking of, they had an expert talking about a time when Salazar dosed one of the coaches at the Nike project with high levels of L-Carnitine, and his performance levels were dramatically increased to the point he wasn't struggling to keep up with Mo Farah and Galen Rupp on a training run. Salazar freaked out at how effective it was. It doesn't sound harmless to me.

And nobody said anything about 'evil'. It's still wrong, and imo should rightfully be kept in the spotlight.

Come on are you saying it's not harmless on the basis it improves performance? Eating chicken can dramatically increase muscle growth under the right conditions. Is the magnitude of benefit relative to its level of safety? I find it amazing that alcohol and smoking are responsible god knows how many deaths every year yet Joe is crying about L-Carnitine.

Tell me how · 10-03-2017 03:33PM

Jayesdiem wrote:

Come on are you saying it's not harmless on the basis it improves performance? Eating chicken can dramatically increase muscle growth under the right conditions. Is the magnitude of benefit relative to its level of safety? I find it amazing that alcohol and smoking are responsible god knows how many deaths every year yet Joe is crying about L-Carnitine.

You're trying to use a strawman argument.

Joe/Ger aren't equating drug use in sport with more serious things in society. They are saying that it means you cannot entirely trust that what you are seeing those athletes do is solely because of their talent and training, but may be because they are juiced.

In I'd entirely within the context of sporting performance.

pc7 · 10-03-2017 03:38PM

I enjoyed it cause I'd agree with Tucker that when you are naive and watching enjoying a sport it's amazing. For me super Saturday at London 2012 was excellent, but 'then' as more comes out after that I didn't enjoy Rio as much. But at least I was watching it realistically.
I don't think dopers are evil, but they are corrupt, it's cheating, they are doing non cheaters out of a livelihood and on some cases risking their own health. It needs to be stopped, doubt it ever will, but the likes of Tucker, Walsh et al that speak out and follow the clues are essential imo.

ballsymchugh · 10-03-2017 03:52PM

Tell me how wrote: »

Ritchie's point was Suarez dived in order to win penalty ergo he cheated ergo it was no different to LA cheating to win bike races.

He was making the point that they spent half an hour discussing doping in cycling with Ross Tucker and how shameful it was but still lauded Barcelona yet one of their players did something which was (in his mind) essentially the same thing.

and they were taking the piss out of him for it. given the amount of time they give to cheating in sport, it was strange that they glossed over that.

elefant · 10-03-2017 03:54PM

Jayesdiem wrote: »

Come on are you saying it's not harmless on the basis it improves performance? Eating chicken can dramatically increase muscle growth under the right conditions. Is the magnitude of benefit relative to its level of safety? I find it amazing that alcohol and smoking are responsible god knows how many deaths every year yet Joe is crying about L-Carnitine.

This is so far off the point I'm not sure what you're even arguing anymore.

Jayesdiem · 10-03-2017 03:59PM

elefant wrote: »

Jayesdiem wrote: »

Come on are you saying it's not harmless on the basis it improves performance? Eating chicken can dramatically increase muscle growth under the right conditions. Is the magnitude of benefit relative to its level of safety? I find it amazing that alcohol and smoking are responsible god knows how many deaths every year yet Joe is crying about L-Carnitine.

This is so far off the point I'm not sure what you're even arguing anymore.

Look again. It's in there somewhere. You'll find it sooner or later. I would hope.

lawred2 · 10-03-2017 04:40PM

Jayesdiem wrote: »

Look again. It's in there somewhere. You'll find it sooner or later. I would hope.

handguns are responsible for loads of deaths

Why isn't Joe complaining about that?

Tell me how · 11-03-2017 10:35PM

Paul Kimmage on paper review tomorrow.

David Brailsford, David Walsh, Bradley Wiggins probably best advised to give it a miss.

Bandage · 11-03-2017 11:20PM

Tell me how wrote: »

Paul Kimmage on paper review tomorrow.

David Brailsford, David Walsh, Bradley Wiggins probably best advised to give it a miss.

I'm not interested in the mechanics of chaps cheating in bicycle races but it seems to have consumed his life. This will be typically dull radio.

Tell me how · 11-03-2017 11:53PM

Bandage wrote:

I'm not interested in the mechanics of chaps cheating in bicycle races but it seems to have consumed his life. This will be typically dull radio.

To each his own. Don't listen then.

Bandage · 12-03-2017 12:03AM

Tell me how wrote: »

To each his own. Don't listen then.

I won't be. It's a poor show. Thanks for the advice though - it could have set me right had I not already decided not to listen.

Tell me how · 12-03-2017 12:26AM

Bandage wrote:

I won't be. It's a poor show. Thanks for the advice though - it could have set me right had I not already decided not to listen.

Glad to help.

CatFromHue · 12-03-2017 12:31AM

It might not be about cycling unless there's some cycling articles in the papers, granted they may spin off for a bit but I doubt the whole show will be about it if they do.

Bandage · 12-03-2017 06:44AM

Tell me how wrote: »

Glad to help.

Don't mention it.

OldMrBrennan83 · 12-03-2017 07:55AM

This post has been deleted.

Tell me how · 12-03-2017 08:07AM

CatFromHue wrote:

It might not be about cycling unless there's some cycling articles in the papers, granted they may spin off for a bit but I doubt the whole show will be about it if they do.

Patww79 wrote:

This post has been deleted.

With everything going on with Sky you can guarantee it'll get to cycling today.

pc7 · 12-03-2017 08:21AM

Ger and the OTB team are the only place I've heard mention of mechanised bikes and cheating. Do they have an inside scoop or are they the only ones running with the story?

PeterTheNinth · 12-03-2017 08:43AM

Tell me how wrote: »

Paul Kimmage on paper review tomorrow.
David Brailsford, David Walsh, Bradley Wiggins probably best advised to give it a miss.

Oh good, that should be worth a listen. I'm getting sick of that curmudgeon Declan Lynch, he's on way too often. And Kimmage is on way too little.

lawred2 · 12-03-2017 08:56AM

CatFromHue wrote: »

It might not be about cycling unless there's some cycling articles in the papers, granted they may spin off for a bit but I doubt the whole show will be about it if they do.

Two words -

Team

Sky

100% it will be about cycling

Jayesdiem · 12-03-2017 09:02AM

Kimmage is another one but I understand it in his case because in order to stay relevant as a journalist, and hence, make a living, he's had to go to the drugs in sport well over and over again. That's why once the drugs in cycling got old he transplanted the same approach to rugby and other sports but, in my view, was met with an audience who really just don't care - myself included. Wounded but undeterred, Kimmage moved on to concussions in sport, his arguments always decorated with a faux concern for athletes' health. Once again, he wasn't especially successful at this so we'll have to put up with more cycling gobbledygook this lunch time. Despite what I've said he can be really interesting to listen to given the right topic.

PeterTheNinth · 12-03-2017 09:39AM

lawred2 wrote: »

Two words - Team, Sky,100% it will be about cycling

Maybe Mo Farah as well.

Tell me how · 12-03-2017 10:10AM

Jayesdiem wrote:

Kimmage is another one but I understand it in his case because in order to stay relevant as a journalist, and hence, make a living, he's had to go to the drugs in sport well over and over again. That's why once the drugs in cycling got old he transplanted the same approach to rugby and other sports but, in my view, was met with an audience who really just don't care - myself included. Wounded but undeterred, Kimmage moved on to concussions in sport, his arguments always decorated with a faux concern for athletes' health. Once again, he wasn't especially successful at this so we'll have to put up with more cycling gobbledygook this lunch time. Despite what I've said he can be really interesting to listen to given the right topic.

Completely disagree.

I don't think there's any point debating it because I'd say we are so far apart in our views but I wanted to mention this in case you saw silence as tacit agreement.

Tell me how · 12-03-2017 01:30PM

Tell me how wrote:

Paul Kimmage on paper review tomorrow.

David Brailsford, David Walsh, Bradley Wiggins probably best advised to give it a miss.

No mention of Sky. Very enjoyable 80 minutes. Some of the topics included; being force fed rugby marketing, the weakness in HIA process, attraction of Cheltenham, Ryan Tubridy and absence of significant sports stories in today's media.

Paul was Paul, brilliant if you like him. Thought Cliona Foley was very good as well.

Really going to miss this type of radio if it's dropped as expected in the summer.

humberklog · 12-03-2017 01:43PM

Kimmage had a good bounce off Tubridy and the all encompassing nature of hype around rugby. Good fun.

Not a mention of a junkie on a Triumph 20.

Off The Ball Official Thread <Mod Note - Post #1, #533, #6651>

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