The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V2

Foxtrol · 06-03-2017 06:06PM

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: »

If the Redskins want him they'll keep him, but they'll need to pay up to do it.

Personally while I like Kirk he has a tendency to disappear in big matches and struggles under pressure in big games.

I would imagine the 49ers will have to give up a good bit more than one pick to land Cousins, not sure about Romo in all of this but I do see Shanahan trying to get Cousins.

Why would they have to give up more than one pick for Cousins? Washington have made a mess of this and lost all their leverage. They're down to the choice of paying him or losing him for a comp 3rd round. At this point they'd be lucky to get a chance to swap a 1st round pick.

coco0981 · 06-03-2017 06:34PM

Knex. wrote: »

The NFL is on crack, if Glennon gets 15m a year.

https://twitter.com/CharlesRobinson/status/838588037915426817

If the Giants ever did something like this, I'd want that GM fired instantly.

It depends on how the deal would be structured, if you could get out of the deal after say 2 years then he may be worth a shot, it's not like there are a lot of good qb's walking the street. 15m is not huge with the increase in salary cap. Osweilers due 19m next year!

Shedite27 · 06-03-2017 07:01PM

Knex. wrote: »

The NFL is on crack, if Glennon gets 15m a year.

https://twitter.com/CharlesRobinson/status/838588037915426817

If the Giants ever did something like this, I'd want that GM fired instantly.

It's a sad state of affairs that this can happen but MMQB explained the reasoning today....

These are the 22 quarterbacks who are on deals for the 2017 season that average $16 million per or more.

$22 million-plus: Andrew Luck ($24.6M), Carson Palmer ($24.4M), Drew Brees ($24.3M), Kirk Cousins ($23.94M), Joe Flacco ($22.1M), Aaron Rodgers ($22.0M).
$19 million to $21.9 million: Russell Wilson ($21.9M), Ben Roethlisberger ($21.8M), Eli Manning ($21.0M), Philip Rivers ($20.8M), Cam Newton ($20.8M), Matt Ryan ($20.8M), Tom Brady ($20.5M), Ryan Tannehill ($19.3M).
$16 million to $18.9 million: Jay Cutler ($18.1M), Tyrod Taylor ($18.0M), Tony Romo ($18.0M), Brock Osweiler ($18.0M), Matthew Stafford ($17.7M), Sam Bradford ($17.5M), Alex Smith ($17.0M), Andy Dalton ($16.0M)

Now, Cutler is coming off the list, and Taylor and Romo might, too, though they could also just wind up back on soon thereafter. Before too long, Derek Carr—eligible for a second contract this offseason—will be joining the list too, and Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota will be in the not-so-distant future as well. Jimmy Garoppolo is ticketed to land on it too, if he’s traded.

You get the picture. Here’s the point: Quarterbacks aren’t paid like everyone else.
So when this year’s sticker-shock quarterback, Tampa Bay’s Mike Glennon, gets more than $12 million per this week, and gets a lot closer to what Osweiler got last year than most think, don’t react by letting your jaw hit the floor.

Say Glennon goes to Chicago, and the Bears draft a rookie QB with the third overall pick (last year’s third pick, Joey Bosa, makes $6.47 million per year).
They’re probably then allotting a little more than $20 million to the position—or less than they did last year at quarterback with Cutler and Brian Hoyer on the roster.

This is just the price of doing business at the most important position in sports.

raze_them_all_ · 06-03-2017 09:16PM

if reskins tag cousins next year itd cost 34 million lol, i hope he has an amazing season

06-03-2017 10:47PM

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

if reskins tag cousins next year itd cost 34 million lol, i hope he has an amazing season

Bones of 100 mill over 3 years I believe they could have got him for 5+ years for that

Billy86 · 07-03-2017 02:00AM

Glennon is actually a good qb from what I have seen (admittedly not too much). No superstar by a mile, butbhebeas getting decent ypa with limited options in 2014, struck me as having good poise and the general look of feeling comfortable in the pocket and knowing what he is up to. Against him, he could be a bit more accurate and improve the ypa a bit more still and to bring down the int percentage, but they come with time. He does have a very high td percentage, 29 in 18 starts.

Not worth the money going around at all, but for the last two years I've thought he could be an astute pickup for a team taking a gamble on Romo or with a raw, high upside rookie qb.

Bit of a Jon kitna or kyle orton in that sense, and there's nothing wrong with that,those were two very good players. Just, like with Glennon, they didn't have that little extra something to set them apart from the rest and earn the 'franchise qb' moniker.

If the market cools on him and Denver find themselves back in a jam he could do well there on a team friendly, short term deal to set him up for the next one (he is only 27 after all).

HigginsJ · 07-03-2017 09:24AM

Mike Florio was talking about this recently, the salary cap has gone up by over 40% in the last 4 years, the top salaries have not actually caught up to this. The top QB contracts should be working close to or just over $30 million per year if they had matched the increase in the salary cap but they have not.

$15 million for Glennon would definitely be a bit rich for me but when you see that some back-ups are making $7 million it is not that outlandish.

brinty · 07-03-2017 09:50AM

HigginsJ wrote: »

Mike Florio was talking about this recently, the salary cap has gone up by over 40% in the last 4 years, the top salaries have not actually caught up to this. The top QB contracts should be working close to or just over $30 million per year if they had matched the increase in the salary cap but they have not.

$15 million for Glennon would definitely be a bit rich for me but when you see that some back-ups are making $7 million it is not that outlandish.

40% wowsers thats some amount. Has there been new tv deals in that time which are pushing up the numbers?

two questions for you more knowledgeable guys than myself
1 is Glennon looking for $15m per season or $15m for two years? I've no experience of the guy to say he's worth anything at all
2 Is the salary cap set for 2017. Seem to remember seeing its 168-170m last week but is there a GM's meeting and a final figure to be agreed from that or is it set?

HigginsJ · 07-03-2017 10:25AM

brinty wrote: »

40% wowsers thats some amount. Has there been new tv deals in that time which are pushing up the numbers?

two questions for you more knowledgeable guys than myself
1 is Glennon looking for $15m per season or $15m for two years? I've no experience of the guy to say he's worth anything at all
2 Is the salary cap set for 2017. Seem to remember seeing its 168-170m last week but is there a GM's meeting and a final figure to be agreed from that or is it set?

The cap this year is $167 million, the reports are saying Glennon is looking for between $12 - $15 million per year.

I don't know why it has gone up so much, possibly CBA related I think.

At present the Browns have the most cap space with $102 million, the Cowboys have the least with $3.2 million, you can find the full list on Over the cap: https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space

adrian522 · 07-03-2017 10:27AM

But that $15m per year will include incentives and all sorts of bonuses. What you need to look at when he signs a contract are guarantees and at what point a team can get out of the contract.

As mentioned above $15m per year is really not that much for a starting QB but we'll have to wait and see what he actually gets.

brinty · 07-03-2017 10:32AM

HigginsJ wrote: »

The cap this year is $167 million, the reports are saying Glennon is looking for between $12 - $15 million per year.

I don't know why it has gone up so much, possibly CBA related I think.

At present the Browns have the most cap space with $102 million, the Cowboys have the least with $3.2 million, you can find the full list on Over the cap: https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space

Cheers mate,
yea our cap situation at the Cowboys is poor but talk is
1) we'll be asking Dez & Sean lee to restructure,
2) talk to Witten about extending and lesser money
3) sort out Tony Romo situation

We'll be doing nothing splashy in FA this year again. Resigning our own is the priority. The Tyrone Crawford deal is killing us on our D, counts $10m against the cap and he's not worth it.

Knex* · 07-03-2017 10:42AM

Glennon had Vincent Jackson and Mike Evans in that 2014 year. Granted Doug Martin was injured a lot of the year, but I'd still be very wary of him. He just didn't look like a good starting QB to me whenever I watched him, to be honest.

I don't see him ever amounting to more than say, Josh McCown levels of play.

mcgratheoin · 07-03-2017 10:42AM

HigginsJ wrote: »

I don't know why it has gone up so much, possibly CBA related I think.

It's gone up because the NFL is making an obscene amount of money. The salary cap is calculated off total revenues via some arcane formula agreed via the CBA that takes everything (TV/tickets/sponsorship/merchandise etc..) into account. As the NFL revenues go up, the cap goes up as well.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman · 07-03-2017 01:53PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Why would they have to give up more than one pick for Cousins? Washington have made a mess of this and lost all their leverage. They're down to the choice of paying him or losing him for a comp 3rd round. At this point they'd be lucky to get a chance to swap a 1st round pick.

If they want him this season they'll give it up. Cousins could well tank this season and IMO Washington don't believe he's they guy that's why he hasn't signed a long term deal yet, they've franchised him twice because the head office don't believe he's going to be a longterm fix at the QB position. Although it's pretty frustrating being a Redskins fan because he is better than whats out there on the open market with the exception of maybe Romo.

adrian522 · 07-03-2017 01:58PM

The 49ers aren't in an position to be giving up multiple draft picks for a guy they can get for free in 12 months time. Too many holes all over the roster. The only trades SF should be making are ones that bring in more draft picks IMO.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman · 07-03-2017 02:04PM

adrian522 wrote: »

The 49ers aren't in an position to be giving up multiple draft picks for a guy they can get for free in 12 months time. Too many holes all over the roster. The only trades SF should be making are ones that bring in more draft picks IMO.

That completely makes sense for the 49ers where they are right now. But if Shanahan wants Cousins now then the 49ers will have to cough up to have him. Like you said would be madness when they can get him next season basically for free, unless of course he's gone by then. Washington without a doubt will try to tie him up to a long term deal during this season.

jack presley · 07-03-2017 02:21PM

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: »

Washington without a doubt will try to tie him up to a long term deal during this season.

I don't think they can. I could be wrong but I thought that last year since they didn't agree to a deal by a deadline in mid July, they weren't allowed to discuss a long term deal until the season began the week after the Super Bowl or whenever the official start of the league year was. So I presume it's the same this year. Agree to a deal by July 15 or whenever or wait until next February to negotiate again. I think this only applies to players on the franchise tag.

Foxtrol · 07-03-2017 02:31PM

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: »

If they want him this season they'll give it up. Cousins could well tank this season and IMO Washington don't believe he's they guy that's why he hasn't signed a long term deal yet, they've franchised him twice because the head office don't believe he's going to be a longterm fix at the QB position. Although it's pretty frustrating being a Redskins fan because he is better than whats out there on the open market with the exception of maybe Romo.

Redskins fans seem to be confused about the power of their position here. I've a few friends sharing articles that they would be getting 2 first rounders for him and they even thought that was too little.

If the Redskins want more than a comp 3rd they need to trade or pay. They have much fewer options in this than the 49ers and are the ones under the pressure of the clock to make a decision.

I dont see how they come out of this in a better position than if they just made a deal last year. Even if they are 'proved right' for not paying by Cousins tanking this season it more than likely means the team has also tanked their season.

Knex* · 07-03-2017 02:35PM

In the Redskins defence, as much as I do like to crap on fellow NFC East teams, most people last year thought the money touted for Cousins was mad, and that they were right to franchise him.

Hindsight is great, and all that, but not many were saying Redskins should have offered more than the 16m a year deal they put forward this time last year. He had essentially half a year of good play at that stage, and was still yet to prove he could handle the big games.

You could actually argue he has yet to prove the latter, as I'm fairly sure his win % against teams with a winning record is appalling, although that stat can be misleading, to be fair.

jack presley · 07-03-2017 02:45PM

The Redskins were always going to be in a no win position once they decided not to make a serious attempt at signing him to a long term deal last season.

If he had a good year he was going to command a big deal, if he was crap the team would have saved themselves a long term deal but would be back to square one at QB.

Unfortunately he landed somewhere between the two where he put up big numbers but fell short when he needed to step up. So he can probably command a big deal even if everyone knows he's not a top 10 QB that you can win behind.

I think at this stage they have to do their best to sign him and accept that their decision last year to kick for touch hasn't worked out (hindsights great eh?)

I agree that they've feck all leverage. It would take a crazy decision by a GM to give up anything worthwhile to get him and it would be equally stupid for the Redskins to trade him for a 3rd round pick or whatever.

So it's get a deal done or accept that it's back to square one next season. With all the needs on defence and elsewhere on the roster, this is all happening at a bad time.

coco0981 · 07-03-2017 07:15PM

jack presley wrote: »

I don't think they can. I could be wrong but I thought that last year since they didn't agree to a deal by a deadline in mid July, they weren't allowed to discuss a long term deal until the season began the week after the Super Bowl or whenever the official start of the league year was. So I presume it's the same this year. Agree to a deal by July 15 or whenever or wait until next February to negotiate again. I think this only applies to players on the franchise tag.

Ya once it passes the deadline of July 15 without a contract being agreed then Cousins has to play under the tag and no contract can be negotiated until the new season. If that happens Cousins will hit the market as an unrestricted free agent. Depending on how he plays this season then he could end up being the highest paid player in the league

brinty · 07-03-2017 07:21PM

coco0981 wrote: »

Ya once it passes the deadline of July 15 without a contract being agreed then Cousins has to play under the tag and no contract can be negotiated until the new season. If that happens Cousins will hit the market as an unrestricted free agent. Depending on how he plays this season then he could end up being the highest paid player in the league

That bit makes me extremely p'd off and I despise the Redskins

07-03-2017 07:59PM

Could see Washington taking someone like keiser in the first this year, let him sit behind cousins for a year and then get the comp 3rd for cousins (or if he looks good in camp they could get a future first particularly if we see a bridgewater type situation somewhere)

brinty · 07-03-2017 08:27PM

Sean Lee has restructured his deal freeing up $5m in cap space,still lowest amount of cap room in NFL

Knex* · 08-03-2017 12:37AM

https://twitter.com/MarcSesslerNFL/status/839187123169210368

Comment over on reddit: So, the Redskins draft 2 franchise QBs in one draft. They destroy one, then let the other one walk through ineptitude.

Jay Gruden is going to have it work cut out for him to see through that extension he received.

jack presley · 08-03-2017 08:34AM

Knex. wrote: »

https://twitter.com/MarcSesslerNFL/status/839187123169210368

Comment over on reddit: So, the Redskins draft 2 franchise QBs in one draft. They destroy one, then let the other one walk through ineptitude.

Jay Gruden is going to have it work cut out for him to see through that extension he received.

Rappaport now saying swapping 1st rounders this year and the Redskins get the 49ers 1st pick next year. Is he reliable as a reporter?

Knex* · 08-03-2017 09:14AM

jack presley wrote: »

Rappaport now saying swapping 1st rounders this year and the Redskins get the 49ers 1st pick next year. Is he reliable as a reporter?

Yeah, very.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman · 08-03-2017 09:58AM

Like I said before if the 49ers want him this season they will have to give up more than one pick, is he worth two draft picks? Probably and maybe worth more. In an offence run by Kyle Shanahan maybe Cousins could be the cornerstone that the 49ers build on.

It's hard not to like Cousins attitude he does seem to give his all but sometimes under pressure he comes up a little short and inaccurate.

With Romo likely to hit a free market I can see why the Redskins are thinking about trading Cousins. If they dont trade him they get nothing for him and they are unlikely to pay big money to keep him. They could draft a mid round QB in this draft to develop.

Interesting times for sure. Also trading with the 49ers gives them a shot at Myles .. maybe .. surely the Browns will somehow screw up the top pick?

brinty · 08-03-2017 10:05AM

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: »

Like I said before if the 49ers want him this season they will have to give up more than one pick, is he worth two draft picks? Probably and maybe worth more. In an offence run by Kyle Shanahan maybe Cousins could be the cornerstone that the 49ers build on.

It's hard not to like Cousins attitude he does seem to give his all but sometimes under pressure he comes up a little short and inaccurate.

With Romo likely to hit a free market I can see why the Redskins are thinking about trading Cousins. If they dont trade him they get nothing for him and they are unlikely to pay big money to keep him. They could draft a mid round QB in this draft to develop.

Interesting times for sure. Also trading with the 49ers gives them a shot at Myles .. maybe .. surely the Browns will somehow screw up the top pick?

I will categorically say there's no way that Romo will be hitting the free market. We've too much money tied up in him to just throw him away. Jethro will want something and if the Redskins want a replacement for Cousins, Jethro will make them pay if Romo is the guy.. a number two pick absolutely if you're giving them a franchise QB who can improve them.

As i said yesterday i don't think there's a way Romo is in the burgundy and gold with out us getting something huge in return.

adrian522 · 08-03-2017 10:13AM

That would be a very good deal for Washington to be honest. An OK deal for SF. I'm not sold on him as a franchise QB and I'm not sure the proce being quoted is worth it for the sake of getting him a year early, particularly in relation to next years 1st round pick,

The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V2

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