"Significant" numbers of babies remains actually found

Zebra3 wrote: »

Will you ever give over with your propaganda ffs? :rolleyes:

There is no proof "God" exists. Zero. Nada.

So please stop making statements that are untrue.

And your "beliefs" are not evidence. There's grown ups here trying to debate things, nobody is interested in your made up claims that you can't back up with one iota of evidence.

valoren wrote: »

I welcome into the debate opinions such as Donahue's. I welcome them with open arms. Let them talk. Let their mask of respectability slip. let their hatred shine through.

I don't believe in God. That's just my outlook. But I do believe there was a preacher called Jesus Christ. His message was simple yet dangerous.

Love each other. Don't be a dick. Be grand. He preached using fable like and easy to understand analogies.
He was like a nomad Tony Robbins, just without the power point slides or the veneers. His message, his sermons developed into Jesus mania as he toured. While there were other preachers who made similar pronouncements, they didn't get their message across in simple terms or as effectively as Jesus.

But his message was dangerous and it was spreading uncontrolled. It's what got him eventually killed by the Romans. He was essentially a celebrity in his own time but he was just a mortal man. He became bigger than 'God'. He was given a 'god' like status such was the power of his basic message of Love one another. This status brought a charge of blasphemy against him. He was executed. He died for his hippy like beliefs of a common humanity, of love. He became a threat to Roman such was his popularity and they got rid.

He, and his 'God' like attribution was subsequently exploited. He was re-invented to be divine, a figure head for a new religion, created by subsequent generations of his fan base. They called it Christianity. Such was the lack of documentation and historical artefacts of the time, his life, his legacy and his message was a blank canvas for this new Church. Church leaders were free to create 'scripture' as they saw fit. e.g. He died to save our souls. Follow him and save yourself. He'll be back. You'll be sorry if you don't. Purple Monkey Dishwasher.

He was re-imagined as being the son of God, the sky phantom who had created the earth, water, fire and air. The message of Christ thus became a fable, an exaggeration of his hippy philosophers message of love. But the exploitation didn't end there. While most used this new church to practice what they preached, an element within, which grew over time, came to understand how the growing popularity and globalization of it (see The Crusades), could be exploited to achieve such wonderful things as; subjugation, suffocating control, and dominance. The best way to look at the church in Ireland is that it is a Wolf in Sheeps clothing.

While elements within the church will preach love, forgiveness, understanding and respect of each other under the love of 'God', there were other elements within who would exploit the idea of this God as a tool to scaremonger, intimidate and frighten. The whole organisation was based on suspension of disbelief. That a sky wizard had created everything, including us. The world was 6,000 years old. And that was that. If you had the intelligence to see it was all BS, you also had the intelligence to shut up about it too. Because when you're in a nest of vipers, you dare not move or make a sound. This inertness in society became normalized over time. A stifling, suffocating status quo was established. It was this inertness, submissiveness to the all ruling Church that resulted in such a scandal as the Tuam M&B homes.

While many would clash openly with the elements in the church, they were in the minority. A defence mechanism was developed by the church. Anyone questioning it, asking pointed questions, demanding accountability was being tempted by the devil. This worked beautifully. The church and the authority it carried steadily became infallible in our country. Anyone openly questioning it risked social isolation. It became too much of a risk to toy with Excommunication, a serious consequence, a proverbial death sentence for many.

The church in Ireland focused on children. They grasped control of the education system here. They got them young. The same negative elements recognized the enormous power and influence they could wield within such a framework. A coup of Irish hearts and minds. People who were inherently decent human beings, corrupted by a nefarious cult which was thoroughly enmeshed in society and our value system.

Such was the power given to the Church by the early state, it attracted such people who were attracted to having power, who were heartless bullies, ambitious socipaths, sadistic bitches, malignant narcisists and power hungry and violent psychopaths. Those of such an otherwise perverted persuasion would exploit being a 'wolf in sheep's clothing' as cover for decades of horrific, endemic child sexual abuse, rape. They would intimidate, harass and belittle anyone, who would dare question them. Even from their own order. They would suppress criticism. The domineering church became normalized.

The mother and babies homes were a product of all of this. Of exploitation, subjugation, dominance, control, manipulation, abuse, bullying, harassment. These women had babies. The most natural thing in the world. Absurd as it seems now, they did not have those babies within the framework society had been brainwashed into believing was the correct way. Not within a marriage, which was conducted in the eyes of holy God. 'God' needed to be witness to the marriage. A toxic dichotomy developed between 'pure' children, born under God, and 'unclean' babies, whose souls were corrupted by their mother, herself tempted by The Devil. Her covert punishment was deserved, she was a sinner, undeserving of care, help, love or support.

Thrown to the wolves. Of Mercy. Of Charity.

It was all as far away from the message of compassion that Christ had espoused and preached about as was possible.

When I read opinions from clowns like Donahue, I only see the wolf in sheeps clothing. So let the wolves show up. And let them vindicate people like Catherine Corless.