"Significant" numbers of babies remains actually found

pilly

bubblypop wrote:

Yes there were. In Dublin

What was the name of it? Post proof.

pilly

eviltwin wrote:

The last one only closed in 1996

Proof?

Noddyholder

bubblypop wrote: »

Found it.
10 deaths

http://img2.thejournal.ie/inline/3269000/original/?width=630&version=3269000

That's the full list there if someone can open the link & post it.

Grandeeod

pilly wrote: »

What was the name of this home that existed in 1994. Back up that statement.

I have doubts about that too. My wife had a baby in 1988 in single baby land and a home was not even on the radar. I had a baby in 1992 with my then girlfriend and a home wasn't on the radar either. The situation for me was to stand by her and do my best.

pilly

Grandeeod wrote:

I have doubts about that too. My wife had a baby in 1988 in single baby land and a home was not even on the radar. I had a baby in 1992 with my then girlfriend and a home wasn't on the radar either. The situation for me was to stand by her and do my best.

It's not true that's why. Certain posters just trying to argue for the sake of it.

pilly

bubblypop wrote:

Yes there were. In Dublin

So you're keeping this lie up there?


Mod-Banned

pilly

pilly wrote: »

It's not true that's why. Certain posters just trying to argue for the sake of it.

Is there some reason you don't believe me?
The last one of these homes closed in 1996 & my friend was in one in 1994.
Why would that annoy you or why would you not believe it?

blinding

Malnutrition could be given as a cause of death but there are conditions that even though the person/baby is getting enough food the body is not capable of absorbing that nutrition .

There is far too much jumping to conclusions . We need if its possible to be told what actually happened .

And I repeat that we should not absolve the politicians and the State of that time for their responsibilities .

How are they getting away with it and the Church taking all the blame . Our politicians are remarkable in the way they escape blame for anything.......

eviltwin

pilly wrote: »

Proof?

Google it. I don't know the name but it was in Sean McDermott street.

pilly

bubblypop wrote:

Is there some reason you don't believe me? The last one of these homes closed in 1996 & my friend was in one in 1994. Why would that annoy you or why would you not believe it?

Because it's not true. You can't just post lies and expect to get away with it. I and plenty of others around here had babies in the 90's and there were no homes.

Grandeeod

bubblypop wrote: »

Yes there were.
In Dublin

If that's true, then it lends a lot of credence to the belief that ordinary people kept that kind of thing alive, while the church and state lent a hand. As I said my wife got pregnant had a baby in 1988 and she never heard a word about a "Home". I too had a baby in 1992 with my girlfriend at the time and all I heard was, stand by her and it never occured to me to do otherwise.

eviltwin

pilly wrote: »

Because it's not true. You can't just post lies and expect to get away with it. I and plenty of others around here had babies in the 90's and there were no homes.

http://www.irishcentral.com/roots/history/today-marks-18-years-since-the-last-magdalene-laundry-in-ireland-closed

Proof enough for you? 40 women in residence when it closed in 96.

pilly

pilly wrote: »

Because it's not true. You can't just post lies and expect to get away with it. I and plenty of others around here had babies in the 90's and there were no homes.

Listen, my mother had me in the 70's and she didn't go into a home.
These homes were only closed in 96, and I visited my friend & her child in 1994 when they lived in one.

Mam of 4

eviltwin wrote: »

Google it. I don't know the name but it was in Sean McDermott street.

http://www.alliancesupport.org/news/archives/005021.html

neonsofa

pilly wrote: »

Because it's not true. You can't just post lies and expect to get away with it. I and plenty of others around here had babies in the 90's and there were no homes.

http://www.alliancesupport.org/news/archives/005021.html

Edit: snap mam, as always..great minds

Mam of 4

pilly wrote: »

Because it's not true. You can't just post lies and expect to get away with it. I and plenty of others around here had babies in the 90's and there were no homes.

Think you should have enough proof now .

o1s1n

pilly wrote: »

I and plenty of others around here had babies in the 90's and there were no homes.

You do realize people didn't automatically go into a home if they had a baby, right?

I was born in 1984, my mother didn't go into a mother and baby home. Does that mean there weren't any in 1984?

nhunter100

bubblypop wrote:

There were 10 deaths out of 796, listed as malnutrition. And we don't know how long those children were in the homes or why they came to be there.

Well we know they were in the home at the time of their death and a significant number ended up in a disused septic tank.

Noddyholder

The home was closely associated with Saint Kevin’s Hospital in Dublin city centre now known as Saint James.

The Navan Road premises were sold for development in 1985 and the building was demolished and an upmarket housing estate stands in its place today.

However, contrary to popular belief, Saint Patricks did not close down as such but transferred its diminished operation to a far smaller premises and continued until the early 1990s at a grand Victorian pile in plush Dublin 4.

After the Navan Road premises were sold in 1985, the nuns transferred their remaining staff and residents to 75 Eglington Road in Donnybrook in plush Dublin 4.

Here the girls and women were in supervised ‘Flatlets’ and were regularly seen by passers-by and local residents, huddled in groups outside, smoking and chatting. The anecdotal evidence is that the residents were mainly professional women in their 20s, bored out of their minds and eager to get back to their careers.
https://www.google.es/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi8j8rzlMXSAhVJwxQKHehaDCQQFggjMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thejournal.ie%2Freadme%2Fmother-and-baby-home-st-patricks-2380868-Oct2015%2F&usg=AFQjCNHLbpKkLppe6hLo8j7Pf62reVSg7Q

Not nice reading :-(

Colser

Grandeeod wrote: »

I have doubts about that too. My wife had a baby in 1988 in single baby land and a home was not even on the radar. I had a baby in 1992 with my then girlfriend and a home wasn't on the radar either. The situation for me was to stand by her and do my best.

There most definitely were homes open in 1988.

pilly

bubblypop wrote:

Listen, my mother had me in the 70's and she didn't go into a home. These homes were only closed in 96, and I visited my friend & her child in 1994 when they lived in one.

The laundry was still there in 1996 it was not still a mother and baby home. I don't believe your story of visiting a friend there.

Dr Strange

kbannon wrote: »

...
Thirdly, I don't know whether the malnutrition was down to the mother, nuns, both or something else and would rather wait for the coroner to look at them before I decide how they died.

nhunter100 wrote: »

... Last I'm not very clued in on coroner techniques but I'm not sure if it is possible to determine malnutrition from the bones of very young children. Open to correction of course.

The site was excavated by forensic archaeologists/osteoarchaeologists which is the correct thing to do in cases like these.

Now the bones should be fully counted and examined by a team of forensic anthropologists, forensic pathologists and forensic radiographers/radiologists before attempting any DNA analysis. This would be crucial in extracting all the possible information regarding illnesses, exact ages and also if there were any injuries/wounds, particularly if any of this is to be used in evidence. It would be following international good practice.

Grandeeod

eviltwin wrote: »

http://www.irishcentral.com/roots/history/today-marks-18-years-since-the-last-magdalene-laundry-in-ireland-closed

Proof enough for you? 40 women in residence when it closed in 96.

In fairness that article says the eldest "resident" was 79. Hardly a young pregnant girl from the 90s. It was officially a "Magdelene laundry". I'd like proof that young girls were sent there in the 90s to have babies, suffer abuse akin to what went on in earlier years.

pilly

pilly wrote: »

The laundry was still there in 1996 it was not still a mother and baby home. I don't believe your story of visiting a friend there.

I don't care whether you believe me or not, but I'd appreciate if you don't call me a liar, especially when you have been shown to be wrong yourself.

And why wouldn't I visit my friend and her new baby?
It was a mother and baby home, that's where they lived for the first 6 months of the child's life.

Grandeeod

Grandeeod wrote: »

In fairness that article says the eldest "resident" was 79. Hardly a young pregnant girl from the 90s. It was officially a "Magdelene laundry". I'd like proof that young girls were sent there in the 90s to have babies, suffer abuse akin to what went on in earlier years.

My friend didn't suffer any abuse, I never said she did. It was 94, and I doubt any of the girls suffered any abuse.
They all looked happy enough to me

Colser

Grandeeod wrote: »

In fairness that article says the eldest "resident" was 79. Hardly a young pregnant girl from the 90s. It was officially a "Magdelene laundry". I'd like proof that young girls were sent there in the 90s to have babies, suffer abuse akin to what went on in earlier years.

I don't think anyone said that the abuse was taking place then only that the homes were open until early 90s.

eviltwin

Grandeeod wrote: »

In fairness that article says the eldest "resident" was 79. Hardly a young pregnant girl from the 90s. It was officially a "Magdelene laundry". I'd like proof that young girls were sent there in the 90s to have babies, suffer abuse akin to what went on in earlier years.

I posted that to as proof for Pilly that the last home closed in 1996. He/she clearly thought I made that up.

Tramore Tilly

pilly wrote: »

The laundry was still there in 1996 it was not still a mother and baby home. I don't believe your story of visiting a friend there.

I would think a fair few of the women in the institutions in the 90s would have been women who had babies and who were kept in the homes until old age. I know for example there was a mother and baby home down the road from me and the women in there when I was growing up would have had babies in the 60s and 70s but they were kept in there until the 90s. At that stage they were elderly and had no income homes or pension. Im not sure whether they even got the state pension?

Caroleia

bubblypop wrote: »

There were 10 deaths out of 796, listed as malnutrition.
And we don't know how long those children were in the homes or why they came to be there.

There was a link posted away back on the thread to a Daily mail article with transcripts from the interview that a woman who was brought up and worked in the home had with another Tuam local. It makes for heart breaking reading. At one point she mentions that some of the mothers had to be watched as they wouldn't feed their babies. Could that be why some babies didn't thrive. Imagine this scenario - young girl gets pregnant (very possibly by rape by family member/friend), family pack her off to an institution, her self hatred is so great that she actually refuses to feed her own baby. How absolutely beyond twisted and f****ed up is that. What kind of a people would drive a young woman to that type of despair?

pilly

bubblypop wrote:

I don't care whether you believe me or not, but I'd appreciate if you don't call me a liar, especially when you have been shown to be wrong yourself.

Look bubblypop you seem to derive some sort of enjoyment out of riling people up, if that's your thing fine, carry on. I don't have to believe a word you say.

I have not been proven wrong. The links show a laundry existed with residents as old as 79 not that there were still young mothers with babies there.

There was no need for any girl to go into a home in 1996 as plenty of supports existed then.