"Significant" numbers of babies remains actually found

maryishere

nhunter100 wrote: »

Too busy investigating themselves.

Will they ever start an investigation? In other countries if babies remains were found in a sewer system, a serious investigation would have started ages ago.

FA Hayek

Zebra3 wrote: »

Have the guards started an investigation yet?

The illuminati are stopping them.

maryishere

In 20 years time we might have another multi million euro tribunal in to the scandal of why such abuse was covered up at the time, and why it was not investigated properly when the babies remains were discovered.

Dr Strange

Some new developments today:

Irish Examiner wrote:

Katherine Zappone seeks excavation of entire Tuam home site

...The Irish Examiner understands the minister will tell Cabinet colleagues these measures will include site excavation options; best international practice for identifying the remains; and technical work on how to protect human remains on the site during excavation.

While no decision on excavations on other homes has been made, it is expected the Tuam work will be extended to other locations.

Full details: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/katherine-zappone-seeks-excavation-of-entire-tuam-home-site-450203.html

Also:

Irish Independent wrote:

Experts to advise on exhumation of Tuam babies site

... The Government will today consider the 'next steps' for the site, where it is believed hundreds of dead babies were buried by nuns between 1925 and 1961.

Among the decisions to be taken in the coming months is whether officials believe it will be possible to ID any of the remains.

Children's Minister Katherine Zappone will update the Cabinet on developments at the site since it was revealed in March that "significant quantities" of human remains were found.

Ms Zappone's office declined to comment ahead of her Cabinet briefing, but it is understood she will tell colleagues decisions need to be taken quickly.

She wants to set up an inter-departmental group to focus on sourcing technical expertise from within the State and abroad.
...

Further details: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/experts-to-advise-on-exhumation-of-tuam-babies-site-35719636.html

Dr Strange

Dr Strange wrote: »

Some new developments today:



Full details: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/katherine-zappone-seeks-excavation-of-entire-tuam-home-site-450203.html

Also:



Further details: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/experts-to-advise-on-exhumation-of-tuam-babies-site-35719636.html

I thought there was a housing estate built over part of the grounds?

If so, how can they carry out a full excavation?

Dr Strange

Deleted User wrote: »

I thought there was a housing estate built over part of the grounds?

If so, how can they carry out a full excavation?

Not sure. That's for them to consider.

gctest50

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I thought there was a housing estate built over part of the grounds?
.........

Who would want to stay living a house built on a mass grave of murdered toddlers ?

Seth Brundle

gctest50 wrote: »

Who would want to stay living a house built on a mass grave of murdered toddlers ?

How many were murdered?

pilly

gctest50 wrote:

Who would want to stay living a house built on a mass grave of murdered toddlers ?

I have to be honest, I have no sentimentality when it comes to graves.

I know people have strong views on it but I just don't see how if your house happened to be built on a grave and you never knew how your feelings would change when you found out about it?

SEPT 23 1989

Can we get some experts in ?

maybe the lads who dug up graves in Yugoslavia

I don't trust anyone complicit in this scandal to get to the truth

pilly

SEPT 23 1989 wrote:

I don't trust anyone complicit in this scandal to get to the truth

SEPT 23 1989 wrote:

Can we get some experts in ?

SEPT 23 1989 wrote:

maybe the lads who dug up graves in Yugoslavia

To be fair the people carrying out the job so far have done a great job. They appear to have uncovered a huge amount of detailed analysis.

SEPT 23 1989

pilly wrote: »

To be fair the people carrying out the job so far have done a great job. They appear to have uncovered a huge amount of detailed analysis.

One woman did

The state is dragging its heals

How long is this going on?

pilly

SEPT 23 1989 wrote:

One woman did

It wasn't one woman who carried out the dig. There was a very talented team.

Boggy Turf

kuntface 55 wrote: »

isn't it time to let them rest in peace,

stop dragging the dead up by the sleeve to score political points

The Roman Catholic Church would love that but decent people know this needs to be investigated fully.

maryishere

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

One woman did

The state is dragging its heals

How long is this going on?

The corrupt state is more interested in rewarding the RCC with a new maternity hospital than
(a) in getting them to pay their promised compensation to victims of abuse,
or (b) investigating the scandal of the babies remains in the sewers.

pilly

pilly wrote: »

I have to be honest, I have no sentimentality when it comes to graves.

I know people have strong views on it but I just don't see how if your house happened to be built on a grave and you never knew how your feelings would change when you found out about it?

I think I'd be uncomfortable at first, but the thought of the hassle and expense involved in finding another house - especially at the moment - would make me "suck it up" pretty fast, tbh.

Waitsian

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Can we get some experts in ?

maybe the lads who dug up graves in Yugoslavia

I don't trust anyone complicit in this scandal to get to the truth

They're called forensic archaeologists and I know some are currently at work in Spain digging up mass graves from the 1930s.

volchitsa

pilly wrote: »

I have to be honest, I have no sentimentality when it comes to graves.

I know people have strong views on it but I just don't see how if your house happened to be built on a grave and you never knew how your feelings would change when you found out about it?

No, I can't see why either, people live in houses someone was murdered or committed suicide in, I think that might make me hesitate about buying it, but if I'd been living there for any length of time before I found out, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't make me change my mind about it at all. I can't see how it could.

That said, I think the site needs to be investigated, absolutely - but that's not to say people living there should all find their homes are suddenly worthless!

maryishere

volchitsa wrote: »

That said, I think the site needs to be investigated, absolutely - but that's not to say people living there should all find their homes are suddenly worthless!

Maybe there is some loss of value - perhaps next time the Roman Catholic Church sells some land or property some of the proceeds could be used to compensate those who found their houses which they paid good money for was built on or beside land which contained babies remains put there by the RCC in sewers.

volchitsa

maryishere wrote: »

Maybe there is some loss of value - perhaps next time the Roman Catholic Church sells some land or property some of the proceeds could be used to compensate those who found their houses which they paid good money for was built on or beside land which contained babies remains put there by the RCC in sewers.

Alas, that's not how their money pump works, it's only ever in the other direction.

I thought this story in The Irish Times this afternoon would be referring to Tuam or Ireland, but it's actually to Scotland. For over 40 years this mother wanted to see the body of the baby she was told died so finally a court instructed them to open the coffin. This article does not say if the culprits, Royal Hospital for Sick Children in Edinburgh, were part of a religious order or of the state.

There was no body. Did these people simply sell the baby to some rich people (as happened in Ireland), or use the child's body for scientific experiments (as also happened in Ireland) and tell the mother that the child had died? The word 'evil' is about as strong as a word can get, but for people in power to do this to somebody with no power who is suffering one of life's great losses fits that word felicitously.

Mother’s campaign to exhume baby’s body produces empty coffin

A mother who campaigned for more than 40 years to find out what happened to her dead baby’s remains has found out his coffin was buried without a body inside.
Lydia Reid (68) was given a court order for the exhumation of the grave of her son Gary, who died at the Royal Hospital for Sick Children in Edinburgh in July 1975 aged seven days old. No human remains were found.
The exhumation was performed by forensic anthropologist Prof Dame Sue Black, who found only a hat, a shawl, a cross and a name tag that had spelled Gary’s name incorrectly.
Ms Reid, who played a leading role in the Scottish campaign to uncover the unlawful retention of dead children’s body parts for research, said the news was “devastating”.
She told the BBC: “We had the funeral, and on the day of the funeral I stated clearly there’s nothing in this coffin. The coffin was light. I know the weight of a baby.
“The coffin was light. My son was not there. And again, nobody believed me. Nobody believed me.
“I wanted to be wrong. I wanted to be called a stupid old woman,” said Ms Reid. “But the minute Sue lifted the shawl out of the ground, I knew there was nothing in it. My heart hit my feet. I didn’t know what to say.
“They know what happened to my son. They know fine and well that they have that knowledge and they can give me peace. They can find my son. Even if he’s been incinerated - I want to know.
“Even if he’s lying in a jar in a hospital somewhere - I want to know. If it’s possible to get my son back, I want my son back. If it’s not, then at least tell me and let me have peace.”
The NHS in Scotland was forced to admit to having unlawfully retained about 6,000 organs and tissues in hospitals between 1970 and 2000, many of which belonged to children.
Ms Reid has long suspected her son’s organs had been removed without permission but she has never found proof. She convinced Prof Black to carry out DNA tests on the remains, and was granted a court order for an exhumation.
Prof Black told the BBC: “Ultimately there is only one possible logical explanation and that is that the body was not put in that coffin.
“There is no other answer because you never get that level of preservation of coffin and not have a body be preserved. There is no hair inside the hat, there is no bone inside the coffin shroud. It was not there and I have never seen that before.”
Scotmid Co-operative Funerals and NHS Lothian said Police Scotland had been informed. Police Scotland had no comment when contacted.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I thought this story in The Irish Times this afternoon would be referring to Tuam or Ireland, but it's actually to Scotland. For over 40 years this mother wanted to see the body of the baby she was told died so finally a court instructed them to open the coffin. This article does not say if the culprits, Royal Hospital for Sick Children in Edinburgh, were part of a religious order or of the state.

There was no body. Did these people simply sell the baby to some rich people (as happened in Ireland), or use the child's body for scientific experiments (as also happened in Ireland) and tell the mother that the child had died? The word 'evil' is about as strong as a word can get, but for people in power to do this to somebody with no power who is suffering one of life's great losses fits that word felicitously.

Mother’s campaign to exhume baby’s body produces empty coffin

http://www.nhslothian.scot.nhs.uk/OurOrganisation/AboutUs/OurHistory/Pages/RHSCHistory.aspx

As far as I can see, the hospital has no connection with any religious order.