Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

enoughtaken wrote: »

Could see us having a strong team out Saturday. Would like to see Brian O'Halloran given the full match. Interesting to see who will be in goal. We should be to strong for the dubs. Nice to able to play in Croke Park and I think it's important we get the win.

We can't take the dubs for granted and we need a win. I'd start our strongest team possible and go out to make a statement. It's nice for players and supporters to get an evening out in Croke Park and as we all knw we badly need a win up there

Still expecting the same approach as the last 2 games and a nervy game

Gleeson has to play in the forwards

HillFarmer wrote: »

I feel we are lacking forwards in the likes of Tipps calibre.
For me I would love to stick Austin Gleeson Centre forward and leave him there for good. Backs wise, I think we have plenty of cover with the likes of Fives De Burca etc.
Just my two pence worth.

i'd have no problem with Gleeson up front but he would find himself alone or possibly with one other up with him surrounded by at least four backs and that's with the goalie to beat as well ,you could stick Dj Carey,Joe Canning,Paul Flynn ,Dan Shanahan,Eddie Brennan etc etc up there but when you are outnumbered you are going to find it extremely difficult to have an impact,it is hard enough to beat Tipp,KK or Cork with six forwards but it is damn near impossible with two

Horseboxhead wrote: »

I actually think Derek got exactly what he wanted out of the first two Games, we beat kilkenny , without playing well, got beaten by Tipp[could have read it was going to happen as you were listening to Derek teeing up the result on the wed before the friday], and again i thought did not play well, but not really too upset with our form, as if you look at the results over the first two games, looks as if Tipp are the one team, that have decided yeah we're good enough to win the league and get the two in a row, and with the panel of Players they have , not really surprising.
T de Burca has been our major plus , seems to have stepped it up , a level from anything he has done in the last two years, his feet seem to be quicker , his decision making better and again slightly quicker, big worry is though playing him deep and getting him striking alot of ball seems to kill us , and its not really his fault, but i'm of the opinion now, that he needs to feed the ball out now rather than just hit it long, as when teams transition the ball quickly it does more often than not cause us major problems.
But we have not started the league , for the first time in two years like we want to win it, and do we ?, like really want to win another league ?, only if it makes us better placed for a serious run at the All Ireland , and if last year showed us anything , it was hurling is different in August and the teams that do well, arrive there as fresh as they can be, unless you have serious options like Tipp currently, and Kilkenny 3 years ago, so no point in going mental, will wait till july, before we really know what's what, all this League stuff , your never too sure what's going on.

sweet jesus

HillFarmer wrote: »

I feel we are lacking forwards in the likes of Tipps calibre.
For me I would love to stick Austin Gleeson Centre forward and leave him there for good. Backs wise, I think we have plenty of cover with the likes of Fives De Burca etc.
Just my two pence worth.

how can you tell?

it would appear that McGrath is of the view that Waterford lack forwards of any caliber.

Waterfords biggest problem imo is mc graths reluctance to go away from the sweeper.this was clearly shown up in nowlan park.they spent 5 min more on the dressing room at half time getting ready to revert to type.they nearly got caught.a week later at Home to tipp they play a sweeper with 2pts already on the board in the league.mc grath clearly doesnt have faith in your squad 15 v15.

dubcat51 wrote: »

Waterfords biggest problem imo is mc graths reluctance to go away from the sweeper.this was clearly shown up in nowlan park.they spent 5 min more on the dressing room at half time getting ready to revert to type.they nearly got caught.a week later at Home to tipp they play a sweeper with 2pts already on the board in the league.mc grath clearly doesnt have faith in your squad 15 v15.

Waterford don't play with a sweeper. They do empty the full forward line to cover the opposition dropping back their half forwards. De Burca just holds his position and it looks like he is a sweeper. In the first half Waterford played 15v15 against Kilkenny created chances; ... in the second half ... well I'll just quote Anthony Daly in the Examiner:

"Walter Walsh came on at half-time and made a difference but Kilkenny had to come deeper to get their hands on the ball. Cody goes on about his ambivalence towards tactics but they blatantly brought a man back to provide more cover in front of Padraig Walsh at full-back"

De burca swept in front of your full back line for the last 20 min in nowlan pk.

I am fed up of listening to the "sweeper" debate and how it is at the route of all our evils. Playing a sweeper is nothing new I remember Shane Ahearne playing that role for Waterford in a number of games over 20 years ago, especially if the day in question involved a strong gale.

Playing a sweeper indicates that the player tasked with the job is playing behind an orthdox half back line with two wing backs and a center back, hence he is "sweeping" up behind the line. Tadgh deBurca plays as a deep lying center-back and we flood the area in-front of him with lots of bodies. and this is the problem.

If we were to play an orthodox sweeper system, you could take one man out of the full forward line to play sweeper but you must keep a minimum of two men inside, ideally leaving the opposing full back as the spare man to take the ball. The fact that the sweeper operates effectively as a loose man they should have the time and space to allow them to sweep behind mopping up loose ball and then launching attacks by causing overlaps by carrying the ball out or by delivering quality ball into the corners where the corner forward can isolate the corner back or alternatively cause the full back to vacate the space in front of goal and risk leaving the other corner back isolated on his man.

Now compare that with what we are doing, De Burca is being made to sit deep, giving the Center-Foward all the space in the world. We try to combat this by all but emptying our full forward and half forward lines, flooding midfield with bodies and trying to "break". Unfortunately this restricts us to looking for short very high risk passes in an area of the field that is so congested that turnovers interceptions mistakes block and hooks are bound to happen with regularity. How many scores have we given way over the last 18 months particularly by getting caught trying to break out or make short flick passes. The big problem here is that every time you make such a mistake and concede a score, you have to work twice as hard to get a score back and without forwards that is a major issue. It also allows other teams to push on to us and apply serious pressure on deBurca so he does not have time to deliver quality ball, he is either hitting it under pressure to know one or having to break a tackle. The alternative is to hitting long balls to a seriously outnumbered froward or to nobody at all and the ball comes straight back with interest.

I fear that Derek has become almost blinded by fear. Sport is about defending and scoring in equal measure. Our focus is almost entirely on defending in our half and about reducing the goal count against us and depending on long range shots from most of our scores. Regrettably the set up we have means that as soon as we concede even one goal we are under serious pressure. Compare that set up to the first half against KK last year when we were othordox, we conceded two early goals but still stormed straight back at them and competed on an equal footing

I am fed up of hearing that the management team were trying to push players forward from the line and it is not the managements fault, the players are not responding. If this is really the case why have management not taken issue with players who fail to respond and put in players who will do what they are told - that is managements job. Quite simply as I see it, we have spent three years drumming into players to fall back and defend, they now do it as an automatic default and management are quite happy to let it happen and just play at trying to push them forward. Maybe I am totally wrong, maybe i am totally naive but I genuinely believe that if we want to have a real shot at winning the All Ireland we must adopt a more adventurous and attack minded approach combined with a massive work ethic in all parts of the field.

I watched Shane Bennett last week against Tipp and while the lad was having a bit of a stinker in terms of scoring, his work rate was phenomenal, he did not give Tipp players any time on the ball, he was chasing and harassing them constantly, nothing was a lost even though he was out numbered and on his own he never stopped. If we get that kind of commitment from all our forwards (and i believe we can) we can match the best. As regards the U21 All Ireland being the Vauxhaul Conference, the U21s could only beat what was in front of them. No one is asking for the U21 team to play in the Senior Championship - we are talking about taking the nucleus of a very good U21 side and adding it to a very strong panel of very good players who if left, are more than capable of competing against any team in the country - in case any doubts this the following players were not under 21 last year and were not elegible for the Vauxhaul Conference!!!!!

Socky, Iggy, Shane Fives, Barry Coughlan, Noel Connors, Tadgh DeBurca, Darragh Fives, Philip Mahony, Jamie Barron, Kevin Moran, Pauric Mahony, Brick Walsh, Jake Dillon, Maurice Shanahan, Colin Dunford, Brian O'Halloran - just to name a few.


Maybe, just maybe with a bit of confidence in the ability of our players we could add those from the U21 to this lot and we might just have a panel that could win an All Ireland. - Remember of the players who are being added to the mix, some of these, namely Austin Gleeson, Shane Bennett, Stephen Bennett, Patrick Curran, and Tom Devine are in at least their third year at senior level

The wet Weather on Sat not going to suite us