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Legalising RECREATIONAL cannabis

24

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭pablo128


    1. Dont patronise me. I haven't had any personal problems as I'm not stupid/selfish enough to take these drugs. When I was in my late teens, my friends started smoking weed and I straight away noticed a change in them. Nearly all of them stopped after a year because they felt they were damaging themselves.

    2. If they were legalized they would be taxed heavily and would therefore cost more. It's a fact.

    Zero personal experience of the stuff and you're an expert on it.:rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭DickSwiveller


    Keep it illegal with a slap on the wrist
    pablo128 wrote: »
    Zero personal experience of the stuff and you're an expert on it.:rolleyes:

    Wow...profound comment.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    1. Dont patronise me. I haven't had any personal problems as I'm not stupid/selfish enough to take these drugs. When I was in my late teens, my friends started smoking weed and I straight away noticed a change in them. Nearly all of them stopped after a year because they felt they were damaging themselves.

    2. If they were legalized they would be taxed heavily and would therefore cost more. It's a fact.

    1. Okay, lets keep personal experiences out of it then. Overal harm is down. The methodology would be in the studies conducted and indirectly linked. Taking one example rate of HIV infection down, another drug related deaths reduced from 131 in 2001 to 20 in 2008.

    2. Not really sure what your point is.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Irresponsible, sneering creeps like you reallly get on my nerves. What age are you?

    But you're doing the exact same to other but in a less amusing way with way more effort. You're a very confusing individual that, given your username, has some sense of humour somewhere.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭DickSwiveller


    Keep it illegal with a slap on the wrist
    ScumLord wrote: »
    Neither is water.Most MDMA deaths are actually water intoxication. The bottom line is it's not harmful enough to justify the mess we've created with organised crime instead.

    Really, I thought president was fairly important in law. Why shouldn't people be able to use a drug that's been scientifically proven to be less harmful than alcohol in every conceivable way?

    Your going to extremes, someone doesn't get high, they turn into a full blown addict that can't do anything. We have a precedent for society using a drug without every user turning into an addict and that drug is way more addictive than cannabis. People use cannabis recreationally every day in Ireland, you talk to these people and don't even realise they use cannabis recreationally, society hasn't fallen apart. Now before you say we have horrible problems with alcohol, we have problems with binge drinking at the weekends. We have addicts, but they're not the norm.

    Lol, pot/kettle/black, your whole post is nothing but an intolerant rant.

    That's what's happening, you're just sore that people are coming to different conclusions than have been feed to you by sensationalist media..

    Why would you assume that? We don't allow advertising for cigarettes, we restrict advertising on alcohol, why would we be so open about promoting cannabis? Cannabis legalisation wouldn't make law and order worse, it would likely improve it as police would be able to spend time solving other crimes rather than the soft target of drug users.

    Cannabis in Ireland has a huge markup, like, massive compared to every other European country, the black market would have a difficult time matching legal cannabis for a number of reasons as long as it's not taxed up to a price above the street price which would be difficult given the markups we have here.. The black market would more than likely consist of friends selling their own crops to friends. The whole black market for drugs would take a serious hit if they lost their biggest selling product. Organised crime runs as a business and a business can't operate at the same level if it loses it's best selling product.

    1. Do you have evidence for this first statement? I thought we were discussing cannabis?

    2. They shouldn't be allowed smoke it because we don't need another poison legalized. I don't subscribe to the "my body my choice" religion; I think a government should protect people form the recklessness of others. Just like they do with drink driving. Do you think people should be allowed drink and drive??

    3. See above.

    4. From my experience many people support legalization because it is fashionable to do so. Don't underestimate the power of fashion.

    5. I answered this already.

    6. It's not criminals that cause widespread drug use; it's the people who take the drugs. "Addiction" and "alcoholism" are complete myths that deny human will power. If these people were heavily penalized for committing these crimes then they wouldn't be so quick to use them again. See Japan and South Korea.


  • Registered Users Posts: 825 ✭✭✭jameorahiely


    pablo128 wrote: »
    Zero personal experience of the stuff and you're an expert on it.:rolleyes:

    Always the best kind


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭DickSwiveller


    Keep it illegal with a slap on the wrist
    But you're doing the exact same to other but in a less amusing way with way more effort. You're a very confusing individual that, given your username, has some sense of humour somewhere.

    Oh here we go. Thanks for the amateur pseudo-psychology. You seem to have many talents. I'm not doing the exact same thing. I'm trying to convince people that they are wrong and irresponsible. The other creep who responded wasn't interested in discussing anything and resorted to childlike insults.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭DickSwiveller


    Keep it illegal with a slap on the wrist
    1. Okay, lets keep personal experiences out of it then. Overal harm is down. The methodology would be in the studies conducted and indirectly linked. Taking one example rate of HIV infection down, another drug related deaths reduced from 131 in 2001 to 20 in 2008.

    2. Not really sure what your point is.

    1. How are you calculating harm??


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Oh here we go. Thanks for the amateur pseudo-psychology. You seem to have many talents. I'm not doing the exact same thing. I'm trying to convince people that they are wrong and irresponsible. The other creep who responded wasn't interested in discussing anything and resorted to childlike insults.
    1. How are you calculating harm??

    :confused:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 825 ✭✭✭jameorahiely


    Oh here we go. Thanks for the amateur pseudo-psychology. You seem to have many talents. I'm not doing the exact same thing. I'm trying to convince people that they are wrong and irresponsible. The other creep who responded wasn't interested in discussing anything and resorted to childlike insults.

    You brought stoned children in to the discussion. Would calling someone a creep repeatedly be resorting to child like insults? Can you not express your self in a civil manner? What if a child read this?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 730 ✭✭✭SILVAMAN


    Keep it illegal with a slap on the wrist
    Absolutely not.




    Answer me this; why does anyone need to use drugs to make themselves feel good?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭DickSwiveller


    Keep it illegal with a slap on the wrist
    You brought stoned children in to the discussion. Would calling someone a creep repeatedly be resorting to child like insults? Can you not express your self in a civil manner? What if a child read this?

    I can give as good as I get. There are lots of stoned children wrecking their parent' lives. Are you denying it?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭pablo128


    SILVAMAN wrote: »
    Absolutely not.




    Answer me this; why does anyone need to use drugs to make themselves feel good?

    You could ask the same question of alcohol and probably get the same answer.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭DickSwiveller


    Keep it illegal with a slap on the wrist
    pablo128 wrote: »
    You could ask the same question of alcohol and probably get the same answer.

    Not really. Alcohol in moderation is pretty harmless.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 732 ✭✭✭DontThankMe


    SILVAMAN wrote: »
    Absolutely not.




    Answer me this; why does anyone need to use drugs to make themselves feel good?

    For some people it's not about "making themselves feel good" It is about sitting down after a hard days work relaxing and having a smoke. Other people might choose to read a book go for a walk etc. but some people choose to have a smoke.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭pablo128


    Not really. Alcohol in moderation is pretty harmless.
    So is cannabis, but that doesn't answer the question.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    Not really. Alcohol in moderation is pretty harmless.

    So is weed. Your opinion doesn't change that fact.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    1. Do you have evidence for this first statement? I thought we were discussing cannabis?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication

    I was just pointing out that lots of things are harmful, cannabis just isn't harmful enough.
    2. They shouldn't be allowed smoke it because we don't need another poison legalized. I don't subscribe to the "my body my choice" religion; I think a government should protect people form the recklessness of others. Just like they do with drink driving. Do you think people should be allowed drink and drive??
    Cannabis isn't poison, or you don't understand what a poison is. Cannabis use isn't by default going to affect someone else. You can make the argument that if someone abuses any drug the family will suffer with them and it's true. But that's addiction, it's a different thing to someone that just uses the drug. Obviously I don't think drink driving should be legalised, it's a nonsense comparison.
    4. From my experience many people support legalization because it is fashionable to do so. Don't underestimate the power of fashion.
    No, that's what you want to believe. Many people support cannabis legalisation because of long term debate, organised crime is clearly a result of prohibition, and all evidence points to the fact that any harma associated with cannabis isn't so bad that we should have organised crime instead. This debate has been going on for decades and you clearly haven't been listening to the points and are instead hiding behind a caricature of drug use promoted by sensationalist media and 80s action films.
    5. I answered this already.
    I didn't see any explanation for why you think cannabis would be allowed to advertise when the current legal drugs aren't.
    6. It's not criminals that cause widespread drug use;
    No, drugs have been in widespread use for millennia, archaeology has shown we've been using drugs for at least 8,000 years. Humans use drugs, it's part of our behaviour and always has been.

    "Addiction" and "alcoholism" are complete myths that deny human will power.
    Right, I think I'll stick with medical professionals on this one.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭DickSwiveller


    Keep it illegal with a slap on the wrist
    So is weed. Your opinion doesn't change that fact.

    Smoking weed in moderation is not harmless. And from my experience very few people smoke it in moderation.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭pablo128


    Smoking weed in moderation is not harmless. And from my experience very few people smoke it in moderation.

    What experience? Your mate smoked it when he was 18?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Smoking weed in moderation is not harmless.
    In your opinion? Or have you got something to back up that claim?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭DickSwiveller


    Keep it illegal with a slap on the wrist
    ScumLord wrote: »
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication

    I was just pointing out that lots of things are harmful, cannabis just isn't harmful enough.

    Cannabis isn't poison, or you don't understand what a poison is. Cannabis use isn't by default going to affect someone else. You can make the argument that if someone abuses any drug the family will suffer with them and it's true. But that's addiction, it's a different thing to someone that just uses the drug. Obviously I don't think drink driving should be legalised, it's a nonsense comparison.

    No, that's what you want to believe. Many people support cannabis legalisation because of long term debate, organised crime is clearly a result of prohibition, and all evidence points to the fact that any harma associated with cannabis isn't so bad that we should have organised crime instead. This debate has been going on for decades and you clearly haven't been listening to the points and are instead hiding behind a caricature of drug use promoted by sensationalist media and 80s action films.

    I didn't see any explanation for why you think cannabis would be allowed to advertise when the current legal drugs aren't.

    No, drugs have been in widespread use for millennia, archaeology has shown we've been using drugs for at least 8,000 years. Humans use drugs, it's part of our behaviour and always has been.


    Right, I think I'll stick with medical professionals on this one.

    Please define addiction. This word is thrown around and taken as a given by almost everyone. What does it mean exactly?

    I'll respond to the rest tomorrow. Going to be now.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 732 ✭✭✭DontThankMe


    Smoking weed in moderation is not harmless. And from my experience very few people smoke it in moderation.

    So everyone that smokes it is an addict? I know plenty of people that smoke it once a week or once or twice a month.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭DickSwiveller


    Keep it illegal with a slap on the wrist
    ScumLord wrote: »
    In your opinion? Or have you got something to back up that claim?

    "There is growing evidence that people with serious mental illness, including depression and psychosis, are more likely to use cannabis or have used it for long periods of time in the past. Regular use of the drug has appeared to double the risk of developing a psychotic episode or long-term schizophrenia. However, does cannabis cause depression and schizophrenia or do people with these disorders use it as a medication?

    Over the past few years, research has strongly suggested that there is a clear link between early cannabis use and later mental health problems in those with a genetic vulnerability - and that there is a particular issue with the use of cannabis by adolescents." - Royal College of Psychiatrists

    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/314222.php


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,580 ✭✭✭✭Riesen_Meal


    I'll respond to the rest tomorrow. Going to be now.

    Rest easy Rich, and don't be swiveling that díck around thinking of the antics them pesky stoners get up to... ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭DickSwiveller


    Keep it illegal with a slap on the wrist
    So everyone that smokes it is an addict? I know plenty of people that smoke it once a week or once or twice a month.

    I don't believe in addiction. People smoke it because they want to. People stop smoking it all the time. Addiction is a fantasy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    I don't believe in addiction. People smoke it because they want to. People stop smoking it all the time. Addiction is a fantasy.

    What ever you're smoking. I want some.

    Edit: I might regret that given your username.


  • Registered Users Posts: 825 ✭✭✭jameorahiely


    I can give as good as I get. There are lots of stoned children wrecking their parent' lives. Are you denying it?

    In 2003 we had the third highest number of cannibas users in Europe. By 2014, we had the highest number. What we're doing is really working.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭DickSwiveller


    Keep it illegal with a slap on the wrist
    In 2003 we had the third highest number of cannibas users in Europe. By 2014, we had the highest number. What we're doing is really working.

    What are "we" doing exactly? It's the fault of the selfish people taking them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 825 ✭✭✭jameorahiely


    What are "we" doing exactly? It's the fault of the selfish people taking them.

    Making it forbidden and therefore exciting to young people among other things . Can you explain what's selfish about having a joint? Did they not offer you any, is that it?

    Why do you think we smoke more than the others


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Making it forbidden and therefore exciting to young people. Can you explain what's selfish about having a joint? Did they not offer you any, is that it?

    Objectively it is selfish, many pursuits are, that doesn't make them worthy of criminalisation. The most selfish thing about cannabis use is it's funding criminal gangs. That kinda makes the crusade to keep it illegal just as selfish IMO.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,716 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    Legalise. The current situation is a farce.

    It's widely used as it is, at least this way the state gets some revenue, the smokers get better and safer smoke and the dodgy fiends who gain the most out of the current situation will end up getting practically nothing. Sure, cannabis isn't harmless, but it's no worse than many other things.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,736 ✭✭✭Irish Guitarist


    I don't care what anyone puts into their system. What I'd be worried about is morons driving around high as a kite.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    I don't care what anyone puts into their system. What I'd be worried about is morons driving around high as a kite.

    Through total legalisation you could easily increase the traffic corp by 2 or 3 times. There would be very little else for the guards to do.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭pablo128


    I don't care what anyone puts into their system. What I'd be worried about is morons driving around high as a kite.

    Laws are already in place for the offence of drug driving.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭DickSwiveller


    Keep it illegal with a slap on the wrist
    Through total legalisation you could easily increase the traffic corp by 2 or 3 times. There would be very little else for the guards to do.

    Yes, I'm sure that would happen.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    pablo128 wrote: »
    Laws are already in place for the offence of drug driving.

    And while it's a massive concern of mine as well it should probably be noted that plenty of us, err people, drive like complete tools as sober as a judge.


  • Registered Users Posts: 76 ✭✭elstingeo


    Legalise it. Tax it. Reap the profits from the taxes from it. There is a certain amount of maturity that would come in to play when one is recreationally using drugs which would mean not to let it interfere with normal activities of life.

    The same comparison can be made with alcohol. Yes many people drink within reason but would not turn up to work intoxicated.

    I don't smoke it but don't have much of a problem with it as long as it doesn't negatively impact upon people's lives to such a degree that they cease to function day to day.

    Yes there are some negative aspects to this drug. There are a number of people who are genetically predisposed to developing psychiatric illnesses because of cannabis. It does affect people negatively and does not suit some individuals.

    It is up to the responsibility of the user to decide if it suits them or not, the same can be said for alcohol or any substance. But to believe that we should wrap all people up in cotton wool would be silly. Illegal drugs have been for sale for years and shall continue to be regardless of legality.

    There may also be some substance misuse issues also but that is an extremely broad topic that has many angles. Addiction itself is a broad scope term but it is sufficient to state that one who uses cannabis once may not misuse it. But due to the many factors at play it is difficult to predict if another person may misuse it also.

    I would also believe that the possibility of young people getting a hold of it may remain the same as when it was illegal. The issue if it were legalised would be to educate children about the dangers of using such a substance at a young age. The same that is done with cigarettes and alcohol for example.

    If the government did legalise it then maybe it should follow strict laws such as the tobacco industry. For example strict advertising laws etc etc.

    To cut everything short would be as such. Yes drugs are misused. Drugs are dangerous. Drugs can affect people's brains, minds and cause mental disorders in many individuals especially those who have genetic predisposition to such.

    But it us up to ones own self to decide if cannabis would suit them or not and have the common sense and integrity to not use it again if it doesn't. Cannabis can be problematic but not to those who exercise common sense when using it and understand the way it affects them.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Hmmm, the US government bans a certain drug in 1920 which was the basis of a massive supply and demand industry. The demand for this drug continues regardless which sees the criminal underworld taking over the supply function for this drug seeing the potential profits to be made along with the added bonus of such profits now being untaxed. Wholesale anarchy and murder etc ensue in the fight between rivals for a share of this revenue. The
    government is utterly ineffective in dealing with the problem & realizes its monumental error and lifts prohibition. Can anyone explain how prohibition will work now in dealing with 'illegal drugs' considering the evidence we have for its spectacular failure previously?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    I was under the impression that Ireland was going to be smoke free by 2025.

    Cannabis use in other forms maybe, but we're not going to see smoking it legalised in all fairness.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,349 ✭✭✭Jimmy Garlic


    If I had to vote, I'd vote keeping it illegal. It isn't harmless.

    I don't smoke it now, but I did for a while years ago. The worst thing that happened to me is I made sandwiches out of digestive biscuits, philadelphia and peanut butter, then ate them.

    People with a history of mental illness shouldn't touch the stuff, but then again they shouldn't drink alcohol either. For the vast majority of people cannabis is harmless.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 642 ✭✭✭Lyle Lanley


    I don't smoke at all and am strongly in favour of legalization.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,814 ✭✭✭TPD


    People are going to continue smoking it regardless. Stats have shown that where it's been legalised, the increase in use has been negligible. Seems an absolute no-brainer to take it out of criminal hands and let the government earn some money on it.

    And to those saying it'll cost the same or more after tax - unless the tax were many thousand percent, it wouldn't be. Its a quick growing plant that doesn't need much in the way of processing. The price for illegal weed is only so high because they can get away with it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,349 ✭✭✭Jimmy Garlic


    I was under the impression that Ireland was going to be smoke free by 2025.

    Meddling nanny statists and their big ideas, they never learn. Smoking will always be a thing, even if tobacco is banned entirely. There will always be demand for forbidden fruits, and the black market will meet that demand.


  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Django99


    Cannabis will be completely legal in America and Europe within 20 years. The US made it illegal 100 years ago and they are now reversing that state by state.

    What a lot of you don't seem to realise is that it's almost as good as legal here at the moment. It's very easy to buy cannabis. It's available 24/7 in any big town.

    If somebody wants to buy cannabis they can, making it legal will most likely have a very small effect on the amount of people using it.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    pablo128 wrote: »
    Laws are already in place for the offence of drug driving.

    Aye Driving out of your face on some prescription stuff would get you in to court. It would put you into dangerous driving. Stuff like heavy anti depressant medication or pain killers. People are going on if its the end of civilisation if people had cannabis. Most of it does not even get you high.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,790 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    3. Your last few sentences show you to be intolerant of others who hold opposing opinions. Do you really think that's a sensible way of conducting debate? I think you need to grow up a tad.

    Of course your post comes across totally level headed and tolerating of other's opinions.
    How to begin to respond to this vapid diatribe. The great problem with trying to even debate this subject is the inevitable boring platitudes one is confronted with. Your whole post is a carnival of inanity, cliche and idiocy.

    I mean, have a bit of sense. If you're going to criticise someone make sure you're not doing it holding a massive brick in your hand. How did you think you'd get away with that?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,532 ✭✭✭Titzon Toast


    I'd rather we remained a backward country so.
    With people like you in it, it's practically a given.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,986 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    Holland has legal cannabis and the state prescribes heroin to the small number of rapidly aging Dutch addicts, really only leaving the trade in cocaine and ecstasy as their moneymakers. It has the same level of home based gangland violence as we have.


    Last time I was in a Dutch coffee shop there were plenty of young Dutch cannabis smokers. The idea that smokers are "rapidly aging" is a fallacy.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,986 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    The same arguments were used against the legalisation of homosexuality in the early 1990s - that is was detrimental to health, was repulsive and contrary to societal norms.

    Would you advocate recriminalising homosexuality?


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