Legalising RECREATIONAL cannabis

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pablo128 wrote: »

Well the current situation is where you go down and meet someone at the back of the shops and buy it.

Yes, and ?

spiralism

I think i can offer a bit of perspective here as i've lived in Holland for the best part of the last three and a half years.

Crime is lower than Ireland, definitely. Amsterdam is a very safe city by any standards. I'd have far less worries about wandering the streets of Amsterdam at night than i would have about wandering the streets of Dublin.

Dutch people, and i found this interesting in light of the topic, tend to smoke far less weed than their contemporaries in europe. Most Dutch people I interact with don't smoke weed and have no interest in it. The coffeshop industry makes its money off tourists and expats for the most part.

On that topic, the city's economy is largely based on tourism and weed tourism contributes some 400 million euros to their economy annually. Coffeeshops are being closed however as they are very strictly regulated (for example almost every shop in the red light district had to close due to being within a quarter of a km from a daycare) and licences are difficult to obtain and rarely granted. In addition, weed is not actually technically legal in holland but "tolerated", with the coffeeshop industry built around it. There have been calls for a move towards full legality quite recently as these laws still leave criminals in the loop as they supply the coffeshops and the shops can be prosecuted for obtaining the stock they are legally permitted to sell. It's a pioneering system that they have here, but far from a perfect one.

On average, a gram of weed costs between 7-15 euro in a coffeeshop, i can just walk into one and buy it there and then. There are cheaper and dearer strains available but they would typically be at the lower and higher end of quality respectively. In Ireland, depending on where and who you ask, a gram would cost around 20 euros. This may be sprayed or otherwise adulterated, unlike what is served here and taxed. ID is required and minors will not be served and told to leave/refused admission.

I know several heavy or previously heavy users and all of them are doing fine, it doesn't interfere with their daily lives. Never heard of anyone getting too high and not going to work. Never heard of someone getting too high the night before and missing work. Several of the heaviest smokers i know have held down the same job for some time, have been promoted in their job or are studying in university, some at masters level.

I work in a hotel dealing with tourists every day of the week and the worst i ever see with weed is some tourist eating a space cake and freaking out a little because the amount they ingested and the strength of it is overwhelming. They feel fine after they drink something sweet and lie down for a bit, it's never even been necessary to seek medical advice. That said, some have tried ringing an ambulance themselves, this is usually met with the irritated dispatcher telling them they're going to be fine and to stop wasting their time.

Just thought i'd give people a perspective on what it looks like from over here.

StinkyMunkey

Keep it illegal with a slap on the wrist

Same old argument "he's allowed to drink and smoke, what can't I have a joint". Then they legalise cannabis, and George now wants cocaine to be legalised. **** it, legalise all drugs, sure they are all responsible adults let them decide for themselves.

Question? If smoking cigarettes was illegal, how many people would wanna have them legalised?

Cannabis like most things is ok in moderation, but a lot of people don't do moderation. Binge drinking anyone?

So you legalise cannabis, now your allowed to puff your brains out, it's not like anyone will drive and smoke it, operate heavy machinery with it, their work be effected by it, that no one will abuse it. Do these things happen, yes, but they are not socially acceptable. So why create easier access and more demand for something that has the potential to cause death or injury in greater numbers?!

Thing is I agree with it for medicinal purposes. I don't wanna deal with half baked eejits constantly, just like I don't like dealing with drunken eejits.

If you gonna legalise it, do so on its own merits and stop whinging about "he's allowed to drink and smoke, why cant i smoke weed".

TPD

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

Same old argument "he's allowed to drink and smoke, what can't I have a joint". Then they legalise cannabis, and George now wants cocaine to be legalised. **** it, legalise all drugs, sure they are all responsible adults let them decide for themselves.

Question? If smoking cigarettes was illegal, how many people would wanna have them legalised?

Cannabis like most things is ok in moderation, but a lot of people don't do moderation. Binge drinking anyone?

So you legalise cannabis, now your allowed to puff your brains out, it's not like anyone will drive and smoke it, operate heavy machinery with it, their work be effected by it, that no one will abuse it. Do these things happen, yes, but they are not socially acceptable. So why create easier access and more demand for something that has the potential to cause death or injury in greater numbers?!

Thing is I agree with it for medicinal purposes. I don't wanna deal with half baked eejits constantly, just like I don't like dealing with drunken eejits.

If you gonna legalise it, do so on its own merits and stop whinging about "he's allowed to drink and smoke, why cant i smoke weed".

You're assuming that more people will smoke it if it's legalised, or those already smoking it will smoke more. That's not the case. Take yourself for example - I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say you don't smoke. Would you go out and smoke yourself into a stupor tomorrow if it were legalized today? If you wouldn't, I don't see why you assume so many others would.

Graces7

Keep it illegal with a slap on the wrist

So if it is so harmless, why are the Gardai testing for it? And if it is so... ineffective, why use it?

jimmy180sx

Everyone I know who smokes cannabis is a jibber jabber marshmallow head who can't string together two sentences

nozzferrahhtoo

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

Same old argument "he's allowed to drink and smoke, what can't I have a joint". Then they legalise cannabis, and George now wants cocaine to be legalised. **** it, legalise all drugs, sure they are all responsible adults let them decide for themselves.

Or, better, we can stop thinking of all of them under the one umberella term "drug" and instead consider each drug on it's own merits and demerits, and see which ones are sensible to have banned, and which ones are not.

I am not sure a reactionary throwing ones hands in the air and espousing "ban" or "legalize" the lot would really benefit anyone in the long run.

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

it's not like anyone will drive and smoke it, operate heavy machinery with it, their work be effected by it, that no one will abuse it. Do these things happen, yes, but they are not socially acceptable. So why create easier access and more demand for something that has the potential to cause death or injury in greater number

And a legal over the counter version of it is not likely to make doing those things any more socially acceptable than they are not already. So it is quite difficult to discern what you think your point is.

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

Thing is I agree with it for medicinal purposes. I don't wanna deal with half baked eejits constantly, just like I don't like dealing with drunken eejits.

I wonder though if when deciding on society level issues, whether "what I want to deal with" displays any real depth of thinking on the issue. Few of us want to have to deal with intoxicated mental impairment in our day to day...... but is that really a valid basis upon which to mediate what should be legal and illegal? You are suggesting a Nanny State approach to personal social ethics at that stage.

jimmy180sx wrote: »

Everyone I know who smokes cannabis is a jibber jabber marshmallow head who can't string together two sentences

Which is, one should hastily point out, a measure of the kind of people YOU have in YOUR circles..... and not a measure of Cannabis users in general. If everyone YOU know acts in a certain way then the common denominator there is YOU.

Samuel T. Cogley

jimmy180sx wrote: »

Everyone I know who smokes cannabis is a jibber jabber marshmallow head who can't string together two sentences

Aye that Sagan fellow was a complete dunce.

Pffft. Flat land!

ScumLord

Graces7 wrote: »

So if it is so harmless, why are the Gardai testing for it? And if it is so... ineffective, why use it?

Cannabis is currently illegal, Gardai are upholding the law. Change the law and gardai won't test for it. Nobody said cannabis was ineffective. We're saying it's not harmful enough to be made illegal.

Jimmy Garlic

ScumLord wrote: »

Cannabis is currently illegal, Gardai are upholding the law. Change the law and gardai won't test for it. Nobody said cannabis was ineffective. We're saying it's not harmful enough to be made illegal.

Shur anyone can get a lamp for less than 100 quid and grow it in a wardrobe. Or out in the garden during the summer. There is no logic to criminalising people for having in their possession a plant, or parts of a plant that is relatively easy to grow. I think the pharma industry and their lobbies have a big hand in keeping it illegal. Bad for business.

ScumLord

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Shur anyone can get a lamp for less than 100 quid and grow it in a wardrobe. Or out in the garden during the summer. There is no logic to criminalising people for having in their possession a plant, or parts of a plant that is relatively easy to grow. I think the pharma industry and their lobbies have a big hand in keeping it illegal. Bad for business.

I think drugs are an easy target for politicians and gardai top brass. They don't want to change the law.

Imagine if drugs were legalised, what would the gardai and politicians have to hide behind. Thieving could move up the ladder, if you're robbed these days everyone just accepts it and moves on like it's just a part of life.

Right now the gardai can just raid the people they know deal drugs whenever they need to show results, the politicians can blame drugs for social problems rather than actually do something about it themselves.

Jimmy Garlic

ScumLord wrote: »

I think drugs are an easy target for politicians and gardai top brass. They don't want to change the law.

Imagine if drugs were legalised, what would the gardai and politicians have to hide behind. Thieving could move up the ladder, if you're robbed these days everyone just accepts it and moves on like it's just a part of life.

Right now the gardai can just raid the people they know deal drugs whenever they need to show results, the politicians can blame drugs for social problems rather than actually do something about it themselves.

You're right, spot on, it also keeps their drug seizure figures way up. Take cannabis out of the equation and the seizure figures wouldn't look so great, they couldn't pat themselves on the back, it's a case of - ''look here, we're doing stuff', drugs bad, we found drugs''. I dread to think of all the resources wasted busting cannabis grows. There was a case recently in Limerick where a couple of fellas in their late 50s (one was actually a farmer) were surveilled for months on end before the ''big bust'' was made. Night vision cameras, hiding in hedges, the works. 150 or so plants at the end of the day.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Graces7 wrote: »

So if it is so harmless, why are the Gardai testing for it? And if it is so... ineffective, why use it?

I have read through most of this thread and your posts stand out the most and by far.

You seem to have a habit of overusing logical fallacies. They are everywhere. There's little logic to your comments, just fear and that one anecdote. Why are you so blind to reason?

StinkyMunkey

Keep it illegal with a slap on the wrist

TPD wrote: »

You're assuming that more people will smoke it if it's legalised, or those already smoking it will smoke more. That's not the case. Take yourself for example - I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say you don't smoke. Would you go out and smoke yourself into a stupor tomorrow if it were legalized today? If you wouldn't, I don't see why you assume so many others would.

No I don't smoke weed but I've tried it. I've found I don't like things that alter my perception, that includes getting blotter drunk. People who already smoke weed may smoke more with easy access, but in the grand scheme of things not that much more. Saying something that is easy to acquire and legal won't create more users or demand is extremely naive, guns in the US anyone, point being that if it's easily available and legal it will generate more demand. That's economics, cheaper and ease of access create demand. I don't think Ireland will become a country of stoners over night, but I've seen first hand the abuse of cannabis. If cannabis was legal I'd expect a huge tax on it, anything else would be foolish. Making cannabis won't stop criminals still selling it.

Jimmy Garlic

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

No I don't smoke weed but I've tried it. I've found I don't like things that alter my perception, that includes getting blotter drunk. People who already smoke weed may smoke more with easy access, but in the grand scheme of things not that much more.

That's your choice. I don't either. Used to for a couple of years a long time ago.

Saying something that is easy to acquire and legal won't create more users or demand is extremely naive, guns in the US anyone, point being that if it's easily available and legal it will generate more demand. That's economics, cheaper and ease of access create demand. I don't think Ireland will become a country of stoners over night, but I've seen first hand the abuse of cannabis.

How do explain the Netherlands? Their relaxed approach to Cannabis hasn't translated into high rates of use. Less weed is smoked there per capita than here.

If cannabis was legal I'd expect a huge tax on it, anything else would be foolish. Making cannabis won't stop criminals still selling it.

Criminals only sell it because it's worth their while, easy money. If it was legalised and huge tax were put on it criminals would still sell it because there would still be a profit in it for them. What would be the point of putting huge tax on it? Wouldn't that be foolish?

freshpopcorn

I'm on the fence about the issue to be honest. I'd no issue with it for medical purposes but the more I've seen with people starting taking cannabis and progressing onto other drugs or even staying on cannabis haven't being good.
So I honestly don't know!

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I'm on the fence about the issue to be honest. I'd no issue with it for medical purposes but the more I've seen with people starting taking cannabis and progressing onto other drugs or even staying on cannabis haven't being good.
So I honestly don't know!

Cannabis, the gate way drug... :rolleyes:

freshpopcorn

Achilles Ugly Cove wrote: »

Cannabis, the gate way drug... :rolleyes:

Just in my experience!

InTheTrees

I live in Seattle, in Washington state, where its been completely legal for two years now. Not decriminalized, not medicinal use, but completely legal (for over 21's!).

Its highly regulated. Its all produced within Washington state by licensed taxed growers, its tested, packaged and labelled. It is about as regulated as any food.

The average price for the "flower" is about $10/gram with tax, but varies with the strain. Edibles can cost more, oils, tinctures etc can vary. A typical retail shop could stock fifty different types.

I'm trying to think of any negatives that have emerged over the few years its been legal. Obviously crime connected to cannabis has almost disappeared completely. I doubt there's any illegal sellers left. I believe i've read that underage use might be up, but not by much because its actually not that much easier for them to get a hold of.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Just in my experience!

And in your experience, cannabis was the first drug that person or persons took?

freshpopcorn

Achilles Ugly Cove wrote: »

And in your experience, cannabis was the first drug that person or persons took?

Yes, I would have always supported cannabis being legalised up until a few years ago. It's just now I'd be uncertain of it.

Tigger

Achilles Ugly Cove wrote: »

And in your experience, cannabis was the first drug that person or persons took?

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Yes, I would have always supported cannabis being legalised up until a few years ago. It's just now I'd be uncertain of it.

not cigarettes or alcohol?

freshpopcorn

Tigger wrote: »

not cigarettes or alcohol?

Calpol when they were four. I used always say all the stuff in the media about cannabis was made up but I've experienced it so I don't know who to believe to be honest!

Tigger

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Calpol when they were four. I used always day all the stuff in the media about cannabis was made up but I've experienced so I don't know who to believe to be honest!

thee way i see it is this
people that want to get cannabis will get it
those that want to smoke their brains out will
legal or illegal its not hard to get

however the only reason i see it as a gateway drug is that someone in the social group has to actually interact with a drug dealer to get the cannabis and they will therefore have developed a contact that allows them to get other drugs

make it legal and this is removed, a long time ago i was a recreational user but this didn't make me crave/use other narcotics, but i was offered them. Personally i'd legalise everything but i suppose its like seatbelts; there is a point where it becomes important to have rules to protect people from them selves

Vincent Vega

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

Thing is I agree with it for medicinal purposes. I don't wanna deal with half baked eejits constantly, just like I don't like dealing with drunken eejits.

I don't really follow this sort of thinking.

If you agree with its medicinal properties, why not agree that there will also be some who experience psychological benefits from frequently taking it? Specifically those who would benefit from certain strains which help to alleviate anxiety and/or lift their mood.

Why focus on the negative stereotype of the substance abuser?

I think a major part of the problem with usage currently, is that a lot of people do not know what they are buying as far as strain or potency go, meaning theres no way to aim for consistency of effect.
As things stand, smoking a joint or a pipe of the similar measured amount could potentially produce any range of effects from feeling relaxed to complete disassociation.

Also, when a person settles into a beneficial usage pattern they'll most likely get to the point of running out, and it's back to square one if and when they can get more.

In any case, people are using it and will continue to.

I think if you want them to do it responsibly, you need to provide them with the right options to allow for sensible and informed choices to be made.

FlawedGenius

Gives you red eyes, dry mouth, just makes u want to be lazy and eat? So why we legalising it again?

Ban alcohol while were at it will stop drunkin brawls everyone should be buzzed out of it on coffee or coca cola.

worded

InTheTrees wrote: »

I live in Seattle, in Washington state, where its been completely legal for two years now. Not decriminalized, not medicinal use, but completely legal (for over 21's!).

Its highly regulated. Its all produced within Washington state by licensed taxed growers, its tested, packaged and labelled. It is about as regulated as any food.

The average price for the "flower" is about $10/gram with tax, but varies with the strain. Edibles can cost more, oils, tinctures etc can vary. A typical retail shop could stock fifty different types.

I'm trying to think of any negatives that have emerged over the few years its been legal. Obviously crime connected to cannabis has almost disappeared completely. I doubt there's any illegal sellers left. I believe i've read that underage use might be up, but not by much because its actually not that much easier for them to get a hold of.

I've never canabised but how much was a gram before it was legal ? Did the price drop ?

I'm picturing a lot of stoners really nervous on budget day here in the future if it gets the go ahead. 2 euro on a Gram of grass effective from midnight ....

We will all be going up north to get it cheaper ...

Vote green man

Grabs popcorn, and some chocolate .... and maybe some biscuits

I don't smoke and have no interest in doing so in the future but I think it should be legal. Pages and pages of debate are a waste of time.

No matter what the No side says, you can get it easily anyways so all of your points are moot. Laws should be realistic. Losing the benefits of legalisation while everyone can still get it utterly pointless.

It makes you lazy.. How does legalisation affect that?
It's bad for your lungs.. Legalisation will let people vape it.
People will drive on it.. They already do. Legalisation will put controls and better checks in place.
More people will smoke it.. Says who and so what.

Only the Yes Side's arguments have substance because they would bring change. It's undeniable that it would hit crime and boost the tax intake.

In Holland, surprisingly few Dutch even bother to smoke it. The government famously said they succeeded in making weed boring.

InTheTrees

worded wrote: »

I've never canabised but how much was a gram before it was legal ? Did the price drop ?

The price has certainly dropped. But its hard to say how much because now you have a huge choice of packaged good quality product that sells from between about $8/gram and $25/gram, and before you had some shady character handing you a baggie of indeterminate strain.

You can buy "shake" for about $100/oz (28 grams). Shake is the by-product from trimming the buds. Perfectly good for cooking or vaping.

ItsJusMe

C. Montgomery Gurns wrote: »

Does it?

Most alcoholics I have known don't need a can to help them get out of bed every morning.

Most alcos don't need a can on their lunch to get them through the working day.

Most alcos can manage tasks like going to the shops without needing to down a can first.

This whole alcohol= evil weed= great stuff is a load of bollocks frankly.

1 - Most tokers i know don't need a spliff to get them out of bed every morning!

2 - Most tokers don't need a spliff on there lunch to get them through the working day!

3 - Most tokers can manage tasks like going to the shops without needing to have a spliff first!

4 - This whole alcohol= evil weed= great stuff is residing in YOUR TINY Brain and your extremely narrow minded outlook on life!

You my man, need to get out more and get a grip on what's going on in the REAL world! It's small minded people like you that has this country the way it feckin is today..!!

Re-legalise Cannabis..

We are Stoner.


We go to work everyday.

We've thought about life more than you can understand.

We've values that you overlook.

We are the ones who hold your hair while your poison ejects itself.

We are the ones who can talk to the cop, since you can't even stand.

We are prosecuted by those who are jealous of our zeal.

We don't need help or your opinion, or that new fancy liver.


We are understanding, compassionate and forgiving. If the laws changed tomorrow,

we would not hold spite for all the years of harassment.

We are joyous, happy and outgoing. Not only do we love the greatness we have found

in life, but feel compelled to share it with you as well.

We are dependable, chivalrous and loyal. We don't smoke to much pot and

accidentally screw our best friends girlfriend.


We are accepting, trusting and doubtless. Ethnicity? Race? Social status?

Don't worry about all that, sit down and have a toke with us.

We will not give up. We will survive your trials. We will endure your lies.

And sooner or later, we will win.

We are all together. We all accept each other. We are all one.


We are Stoner.




Signed: A. Friend