Use your bloody hand brake!

Sam Kade · 28-01-2017 6:49pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

The hand break is also known as the parking break.
I don't believe I've ever used it at traffic lights.

What are these breaks you talk about? :pac:

sdanseo · 28-01-2017 7:38pm

Brake lights should go off automatically if stopped for more than 3 secs. Simple really.

ofcork · 28-01-2017 8:12pm

Seriously!!

Isambard · 28-01-2017 8:30pm

Sam Kade wrote: »

What are these breaks you talk about? :pac:

I didn't hear any talk...

elperello · 28-01-2017 10:09pm

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

I'd say there's a few people out there struggling with electrical hand brakes.

I'd say you are right there.
Who ever said "I wish I had a fiddly electric switch to operate the brake instead of a sturdy handbrake". No one ever I think. Just another so called advance foisted on the motorist.

Oral Surgeon · 28-01-2017 10:12pm

bridgetown1 wrote: »

Pet Hate:

Brake lights can be quite bright, especially newer LED based ones. They are bright for a reason, to warn cars behind that you are stopping.

When you are already stopped, for instance at traffic lights, please engage your hand brake and take your foot off of the brake pedal. This will prevent the driver behind you being dazzled by your shiney brake lights!

Thank You!

Polite Rant Over!

Ahhh, you poor fella, did you hurt your eyes??!!

Sleeper12 · 28-01-2017 10:24pm

cletus wrote:

I've literally never been dazzeld by brake lights

Brake lights shouldn't dazzle anyone. There is a maximum brightness set by law & tested at every nct or doe.
There's no requirement in the rules of the road to use the parking break while driving or stopped at lights.
I can only assume that op is actually taking about fog lights & not brake lights

Isambard wrote:

I didn't hear any talk...

They find my dyslexia humorous.

CalamariFritti · 28-01-2017 10:27pm

Someone had a bad hair day, probably hung over, and creates a silly thread. Makes 5 pages. On another note I hate that 'bing' that microwaves make when they're finished.

Del2005 · 28-01-2017 10:41pm

sdanseo wrote: »

Brake lights should go off automatically if stopped for more than 3 secs. Simple really.

What happens if you are stopped and your brake lights go off after 3 seconds then a car comes behind at 100km/h but since you have no brake lights showing they don't know to stop.

Just clean your windscreen throughly inside and out, then never touch it again till you throughly clean it in a few weeks. If you are still getting dazzled then get your eyes checked. Because the only time I'm ever dazzled by brake lights, or fogs, is when driving Fords with the heated screen.

sdanseo · 28-01-2017 10:48pm

Del2005 wrote: »

What happens if you are stopped and your brake lights go off after 3 seconds then a car comes behind at 100km/h but since you have no brake lights showing they don't know to stop.

Just clean your windscreen throughly inside and out, then never touch it again till you throughly clean it in a few weeks. If you are still getting dazzled then get your eyes checked. Because the only time I'm ever dazzled by brake lights, or fogs, is when driving Fords with the heated screen.

It's only happened me once of note, with a Range Rover in front of me. The LED brake lights were right at eye level and were definitely annoying, but not dazzling.

Sam Kade · 28-01-2017 11:14pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

They find my dyslexia humorous.

Sorry about that, my sincere apologies, I didn't know.

BlinkingLights · 28-01-2017 11:15pm

It isn't at all practical to do that on some automatics.

Driving a recent Prius for exmaple I tried this.

Pressed P at the lights.

Pressed brakes and tried to reselect D. Car refused to engage as it went into some safety sequence which assumed the car was fully parked. I had to switch off and reboot holding everyone up for about 25 seconds.

So if you want to encourage incidents like that good luck!

Irish Steve · 28-01-2017 11:44pm

A very long time ago, not in Ireland, it was a recommendation when stopped at lights or in a delay to apply the parking brake, so that if the vehicle was rear ended, there was a brake active on the vehicle that helped prevent it being pushed into the one in front, the thinking at that time being that the shock of the rear end impact could cause the driver to lose the pressure on the foot brake, which resulted in no brake to limit the damage being caused. That was however back in the days before servo assisted brakes and disc brakes were as common as they are now, so the brake effort available at the wheels was a lot less than it is now. Applying the parking brake on some of the modern vehicles is a whole pain of a performance, and can involve putting the car into Park if automatic, and stopping the engine, which is not a good idea at a short delay, as restarting it can also then be a pain, depending on the exact sequence that the manufacturer has put in to the system.

In passing, I'd rather have to tolerate the brake lights on a vehicle than have the panic that can ensue as an automatic gearbox goes from Park, through reverse and neutral to drive, if the vehicle in front puts reversing lights on, even for a moment, that can be a cause of significant worry to the vehicle behind.

cerastes · 28-01-2017 11:54pm

Del2005 wrote: »

No need for fancy talking cars when I have this amazing thing called the owners manual.

I'd be interested to see an owner's manual that suggests when not to use the vehicle controls and in every jurisdiction, seems counter productive to put that in a manual and then say not to use it in a certain circumstances, I'd like to see that, what car you driving so I can look this up for myself?
The RSAs take on it is, a fault in the test to not apply the handbrake at a prolonged stop in traffic and therefore how they expect it's use in actuality.

(e) Handbrake: not applied as appropriate on an incline, or during a prolonged stop in traffic, or being applied before the vehicle has come to a halt, or inadequate application, or attempting to drive while the handbrake is still engaged. Not applying the handbrake at the end of the test.

They clearly expect it to be applied at a prolonged stop in traffic, just because a lot of people don't do it that way or because driving instructors told someone so doesn't make it fact.
Many people push the lights and break them or do other selfish or I'll considered things but that doesn't make those things ok, just common place. Given the amount of inconsiderate things people do and how they try justify it, I've given up because people will never learn or want to if it holds them up a second or two.that people can't see the benefits of it outside of blinding people behind them needlessly.
I'll hold fire on cars that have a design feature that applies the brake lights under certain circumstances as seems to have been suggested, but like DLRs that don't have some light on the rear and means drivers potter around with no rear lights, I consider it a bad design or a design fault, or maybe they haven't read the owners manual.

So your car is what?

heroics · 29-01-2017 4:18am

cerastes wrote: »

I'd be interested to see an owner's manual that suggests when not to use the vehicle controls and in every jurisdiction, seems counter productive to put that in a manual and then say not to use it in a certain circumstances, I'd like to see that, what car you driving so I can look this up for myself?
The RSAs take on it is, a fault in the test to not apply the handbrake at a prolonged stop in traffic and therefore how they expect it's use in actuality.

(e) Handbrake: not applied as appropriate on an incline, or during a prolonged stop in traffic, or being applied before the vehicle has come to a halt, or inadequate application, or attempting to drive while the handbrake is still engaged. Not applying the handbrake at the end of the test.

They clearly expect it to be applied at a prolonged stop in traffic, just because a lot of people don't do it that way or because driving instructors told someone so doesn't make it fact.
Many people push the lights and break them or do other selfish or I'll considered things but that doesn't make those things ok, just common place. Given the amount of inconsiderate things people do and how they try justify it, I've given up because people will never learn or want to if it holds them up a second or two.that people can't see the benefits of it outside of blinding people behind them needlessly.
I'll hold fire on cars that have a design feature that applies the brake lights under certain circumstances as seems to have been suggested, but like DLRs that don't have some light on the rear and means drivers potter around with no rear lights, I consider it a bad design or a design fault, or maybe they haven't read the owners manual.

So your car is what?

I actually started to reply to you but not really sure what your point is.
You seem to think a prolonged stop in traffic is at lights. I drive an auto and never use the emergency brake. Don't see the point.
I drive an auto. Nowhere In the manual does it say to use "P" or Parking when stopped at traffic. P is only for parking It's not that big. A deal. People driving with rear fog lights on all the time is more annoying

GrumpyMe · 29-01-2017 5:25am

cerastes wrote: »

I'd be interested to see an owner's manual that suggests when not to use the vehicle controls and in every jurisdiction, seems counter productive to put that in a manual and then say not to use it in a certain circumstances, I'd like to see that, what car you driving so I can look this up for myself?
The RSAs take on it is, a fault in the test to not apply the handbrake at a prolonged stop in traffic and therefore how they expect it's use in actuality.

(e) Handbrake: not applied as appropriate on an incline, or during a prolonged stop in traffic, or being applied before the vehicle has come to a halt, or inadequate application, or attempting to drive while the handbrake is still engaged. Not applying the handbrake at the end of the test.

They clearly expect it to be applied at a prolonged stop in traffic, just because a lot of people don't do it that way or because driving instructors told someone so doesn't make it fact.
Many people push the lights and break them or do other selfish or I'll considered things but that doesn't make those things ok, just common place. Given the amount of inconsiderate things people do and how they try justify it, I've given up because people will never learn or want to if it holds them up a second or two.that people can't see the benefits of it outside of blinding people behind them needlessly.
I'll hold fire on cars that have a design feature that applies the brake lights under certain circumstances as seems to have been suggested, but like DLRs that don't have some light on the rear and means drivers potter around with no rear lights, I consider it a bad design or a design fault, or maybe they haven't read the owners manual.

So your car is what?

They mention "a prolonged stop..." not necessary, or exclusively, a stop at a red traffic light!
How are you supposed to know the length of a stop at unfamiliar traffic lights?

CalamariFritti · 29-01-2017 11:12am

Irish Steve wrote: »

A very long time ago, not in Ireland, it was a recommendation when stopped at lights or in a delay to apply the parking brake, so that if the vehicle was rear ended, there was a brake active on the vehicle that helped prevent it being pushed into the one in front, the thinking at that time being that the shock of the rear end impact could cause the driver to lose the pressure on the foot brake, which resulted in no brake to limit the damage being caused....

Of course if you did that with an automatic you'd also put it into P. And if you were rear ended then it would be good bye gearbox.

No matter what angle you look at it makes little sense to apply the handbrake stopped at lights. Unless maybe you expect a lengthy stop or you're stopped at a steepish slope. Most people are slow enough off the marks as it is.

Sleeper12 · 29-01-2017 11:17am

CalamariFritti wrote:

No matter what angle you look at it makes absolutely no sense to apply the handbrake stopped at lights.

It's a parking break. I've never needed it unless parking with the exception of possibility an extremely seep hill start. My new van has hill assist so I'll never need it for hill starts again.
I'm not sure where this whole handbrake thing started. It's not in the rules of the road and I never used it during my test.

CalamariFritti · 29-01-2017 11:42am

Sleeper12 wrote: »

It's a parking break. I've never needed it unless parking with the exception of possibility an extremely seep hill start. My new van has hill assist so I'll never need it for hill starts again.
I'm not sure where this whole handbrake thing started. It's not in the rules of the road and I never used it during my test.

The OP apparently is dazzled by brake lights. How it made it into a 6 pages long thread I don't know but I guess I'm contributing to it myself, so thats how.

Miamiheat · 29-01-2017 12:05pm

Having driven in many countries i have found it very odd to see drivers here apply the hand brake (which i know as a "parking brake" ) at every light. Of course it is useful to start in a hill. Before i was even driving in Ireland i saw some most taxi drivers do it and thought it was strange.
Found it slows down everyone especially in busy traffic situations or very short green lights. You seem them fumbling around trying to disengage the brake and wasting a few seconds, multiply this by a few cars and in the end some people will eat the next red light because of such practice. I find the practice useless.

Nate--IRL-- · 29-01-2017 12:17pm

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Of course if you did that with an automatic you'd also put it into P. And if you were rear ended then it would be good bye gearbox.

Why would you put it in P and not N?

Nate

Sam Russell · 29-01-2017 12:23pm

Nate--IRL-- wrote: »

Why would you put it in P and not N?

Nate

The whole reason for driving an automatic is that you do not put it anywhere - just leave it in D. I have an electric hand brake, so setting it and releasing it is not something I think I am meant to do when sitting at a red light for a few seconds.

My car kills the engine when I stop at red lights. If I release the foot-brake, then the engine restarts. Clearly VW think that is the way to drive an automatic.

VW know everything about cars,

Fred Swanson · 29-01-2017 1:12pm

This post has been deleted.

Oafley Jones · 29-01-2017 1:15pm

CalamariFritti wrote: »

The OP apparently is dazzled by brake lights. How it made it into a 6 pages long thread I don't know but I guess I'm contributing to it myself, so thats how.

It's a bit odd. My only real take away is the OP really does need to get his eyes examined... Seriously.

Yourself isit · 29-01-2017 1:21pm

heroics wrote: »

I actually started to reply to you but not really sure what your point is.
You seem to think a prolonged stop in traffic is at lights. I drive an auto and never use the emergency brake. Don't see the point.
I drive an auto. Nowhere In the manual does it say to use "P" or Parking when stopped at traffic. P is only for parking It's not that big. A deal. People driving with rear fog lights on all the time is more annoying

In the US all stopped cars will have their brake lights on at a stop. As the cars move you can see them all turn off. This is standard automatic practice, putting it in park will delay every single carry by an extra 1-2 seconds.

There's no dazzle.

BlinkingLights · 29-01-2017 1:25pm

I actually got told off by a cop in the US for failing to display my brake lights while stopped in traffic! Full driving licence check and yelling at about what would happen if a car rear ended me because the driver did not realise I was stationary (at traffic lights).

I had had someone hire a "stick shift" for me.

Senecio · 29-01-2017 1:39pm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I hope you never park on a decent slope. The Park selection will not hold.

Irish Steve · 29-01-2017 3:04pm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You're lucky it keeps passing the test, I've had to look at a number of vehicles recently where the park brake and service brake are not on a common mechanism, and the park brake has failed the test, in some cases because it's not used, or not used enough to keep the shoes and drums in good order. The worst example, the park brake linings on one side had completely parted from the shoe, so there was no friction material making contact with the drum, as the friction material had broken up once it was not in the right position.

Fortunately, there was no damage, as the park brake was only ever applied when the vehicle was not moving, so the drum didn't get scored. The imbalance on the NCT was however massive.

Del2005 · 29-01-2017 3:32pm

cerastes wrote: »

I'd be interested to see an owner's manual that suggests when not to use the vehicle controls and in every jurisdiction, seems counter productive to put that in a manual and then say not to use it in a certain circumstances, I'd like to see that, what car you driving so I can look this up for myself?
The RSAs take on it is, a fault in the test to not apply the handbrake at a prolonged stop in traffic and therefore how they expect it's use in actuality.

(e) Handbrake: not applied as appropriate on an incline, or during a prolonged stop in traffic, or being applied before the vehicle has come to a halt, or inadequate application, or attempting to drive while the handbrake is still engaged. Not applying the handbrake at the end of the test.

They clearly expect it to be applied at a prolonged stop in traffic, just because a lot of people don't do it that way or because driving instructors told someone so doesn't make it fact.
Many people push the lights and break them or do other selfish or I'll considered things but that doesn't make those things ok, just common place. Given the amount of inconsiderate things people do and how they try justify it, I've given up because people will never learn or want to if it holds them up a second or two.that people can't see the benefits of it outside of blinding people behind them needlessly.
I'll hold fire on cars that have a design feature that applies the brake lights under certain circumstances as seems to have been suggested, but like DLRs that don't have some light on the rear and means drivers potter around with no rear lights, I consider it a bad design or a design fault, or maybe they haven't read the owners manual.

So your car is what?

Honda Accord and Lexus Gs450h.

The RSA is a hypocritical organisation. They pay thousands for ads telling people that the posted speed limit is a limit not a target yet in the only physical interaction people have with them they fail you if you don't drive at the speed on the sign, so I go with the what they do not say. The only thing that counts is what is in the statutes and that doesn't say anything.

Most of the stuff that they publish is decades out of date and based on vehicles with drum brakes, wire brake cables and cross ply tyres, modern cars have servo assisted hydraulic disk brakes and radial tyres.

cerastes · 29-01-2017 4:25pm

heroics wrote: »

I actually started to reply to you but not really sure what your point is.
You seem to think a prolonged stop in traffic is at lights. I drive an auto and never use the emergency brake. Don't see the point.
I drive an auto. Nowhere In the manual does it say to use "P" or Parking when stopped at traffic. P is only for parking It's not that big. A deal. People driving with rear fog lights on all the time is more annoying

I never said P, I drive my wife's auto and I know others with autos who aren't Irish and they say they put it into N at a long stop and apply the handbrake, slipping the gear into N is no hassle and none to return to D, some say there is a delay getting back into gear and releasing the handbrake, that can only come down to not paying attention to the traffic and lights. As I've seen some people commit silly errors ( one of a few that were done by drivers ahead of me, reversing for a number of reasons and forgetting they put car in reverse, mad but true) similarly I can see people leaving autos in D and a car moving off as they forget due to not paying attention, all it takes is to release the brake and away you go, and many people think that is safer/better. The main opposition seems to be the delay getting back into D/releasing the handbrake, easily resolved by paying more attention, which a lot of drivers seem to be distracted by other things than driving.stop start engines may add an extra dimension to that, I haven't driven one, so maybe they can stay in gear? Essentially braking the vehicle and eliminating the need to apply the footbrake possibly? But it's not on a car I'm driving.

Sam Russell wrote: »

The whole reason for driving an automatic is that you do not put it anywhere - just leave it in D. I have an electric hand brake, so setting it and releasing it is not something I think I am meant to do when sitting at a red light for a few seconds.:)

I'd dispute the whole reason for an automatic is to not have to alter the gear lever, having an auto doesn't mean ignore the controls, there are other possibilities than just D, I like driving autos but to me it's a lazier way to drive and it's easier to just disregard other aspects of the controls, like moving to N.

Yourself isit wrote: »

In the US all stopped cars will have their brake lights on at a stop. As the cars move you can see them all turn off. This is standard automatic practice, putting it in park will delay every single carry by an extra 1-2 seconds.
There's no dazzle.

That's the US, not here, no one said put in park, some lights do dazzle more and my eyesight is perfect, not long after a test.Parked up behind cars in the dark/wet in particular some cars, recently a Prius, full on glare as the whole rear of the car is lit up with brake lights

BlinkingLights wrote: »

I actually got told off by a cop in the US for failing to display my brake lights while stopped in traffic! Full driving licence check and yelling at about what would happen if a car rear ended me because the driver did not realise I was stationary (at traffic lights).I had had someone hire a "stick shift" for me.

That's the US, also a bit silly to me, I've been related a story of the exact opposite, was an accident between two Dublin buses, one rear ended the other, drivers knew each other, both buses were autos, driver that rear ended the front bus complained that the driver in front had no brake lights on and thought the front bus wasn't stationary, and was rightly told off that brake lights indicate you are stopping/applying brakes, not that you are stationary. I'm not a Dublin bus driver but know few that were, one retold me the story, not sure how the parking brake was applied but I think the gear selection was by a small lever like parking brake on some trucks.

Anyway, I don't expect many or any on here to listen to others opinions without tearing into them, when I'm stationary I apply the handbrake and there is less glare for the driver behind me, this is how I was taught and the rationale given was,
If not in gear holding car only with foot on brake, if hit from the rear at a lights or wherever, your foot will release the brake and you will start moving and you will move until you hit something that stops you or you roll to a stop, you can't rely on your own faculty to apply the brakes as you may not be conscious.

In that instance, you may hit someone, either a pedestrian or in a vehicle, with a handbrake applied you would still have some element of braking control that is set. Stop start technology has added a new dimension to this, I'd have to look into the specifics, but if the car can be stationary with engine stopped and it's in gear under that circumstance then maybe the handbrake might not need to be applied, but I see no reason to hold the footbrake also.

An amber prior to the green light would do more to speed things up at the lights than the difficulty and delay some people seem to have managing the multitude of tasks involved in putting a car in neutral and applying the handbrake and then undoing that to move away. It seems to me the test was a lot stricter when I did it over 20 years ago, it would never have been considered to be a huge ordeal to apply the handbrake and yet it's still a fault on the test now for it not to be applied at a prolonged stop.

Use your bloody hand brake!

Comments