Hail To The Chief (Read Mod Warning In OP)

Jelle1880 · 25-01-2017 03:23PM

Deleted User wrote: »

You'd probably be shocked if I told you that Obamacare was literally forced private insurance. That's not healthcare.

You're (once again) shifting the attention away from Trump.

Despite it's flaws the ACA provided even the most basic of care to people that otherwise couldn't afford it.

If they get rid of the ACA without an alternative they are putting millions of Americans out in the cold, without any prospect of even the most basic care. There isn't even a debate about it, it's simple fact.

Butters1979 · 25-01-2017 03:26PM

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Would you be shocked if you were told that not having private insurance meant no healthcare at all.

Isn't that the issue though, forced private health care is just more money into the insurance companies, taken from tax payers, and drives up the cost of medical care. The solution is not throw more money at it.

Butters1979 · 25-01-2017 03:28PM

Skylinehead wrote: »

Don't backseat mod please. Report a post if you have an issue with it.

No issue and no modding, just asking him as a favour.

jobbridge4life · 25-01-2017 03:29PM

Butters1979 wrote: »

The solution is not throw more money at it.

That isn't a solution. It is a statement.

A Little Pony · 25-01-2017 03:30PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I saw a good point on Reddit earlier..

Because of the hate the media and a lot of the public have for him, everything he does and America does is going to be under massive scrutiny. That includes all the bad stuff that usually happens but the media never bothers talking about. Arms deals, privacy laws etc.

I think it will wake a lot of people up to the reality that the government isn't just Obama giving motivational speeches and it will end up making people care about some important stuff.

Very true. People are deluded if they think Obama wasn't doing many things which people would be shocked at. Lord Trump will carry out his policies.

kunst nugget · 25-01-2017 03:31PM

Butters1979 wrote: »

Isn't that the issue though, forced private health care is just more money into the insurance companies, taken from tax payers, and drives up the cost of medical care. The solution is not throw more money at it.

The solution is to hope that poor and disable people die quickly so that we don't have to worry about them having to use the healthcare system.

25-01-2017 03:32PM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

You're (once again) shifting the attention away from Trump.

Despite it's flaws the ACA provided even the most basic of care to people that otherwise couldn't afford it.

If they get rid of the ACA without an alternative they are putting millions of Americans out in the cold, without any prospect of even the most basic care. There isn't even a debate about it, it's simple fact.

To be honest and this is quite shameful, it's a fact I just don't care about. Only one candidate wanted to fix the healthcare system and America very loudly and very clearly said they didn't want that. I only feel sorry for less than one in four Americans.

Obamacare should never have passed and its existence is a monument to government failure. You simply cannot have a national health service with mandatory private insurance at its core.

jooksavage · 25-01-2017 03:36PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

Lord Trump will carry out his policies.

?

Butters1979 · 25-01-2017 03:37PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

The solution is to hope that poor and disable people die quickly so that we don't have to worry about them having to use the healthcare system.

That wouldn't be how I would look at it. Also, at a purely objectional view, there will always be poor and disable people, they won't go away without medical care.

The US health system is an overpriced disaster, there should be legislation to curb the cost of medicine and medical care an a nerf bat needs to be taken to the insurance companies. Reduce the cost of medial care, make it more affordable and put some sort of public healthcare system in place. Keep it away from private profit focused companies.

I'm not saying Trump is intending to do this. What I'm saying is Obama care was a money grab for big medical and insurance companies.

A Little Pony · 25-01-2017 03:39PM

jooksavage wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Lord Trump will carry out his policies.

?

He carries the power now, Lord is a reasonable word to use for such a powerful man.

25-01-2017 03:42PM

One thing you definitely won't see when Trump kills the ACA is millions out protesting for poor people. You just won't get people with insurance going out to give a voice to those who can't afford it.

Anecdotal but I've been friends with a lot of Americans and there's a general distaste to the idea of their taxes helping the poor. The idea is repulsive to many.

Billy86 · 25-01-2017 03:45PM

Deleted User wrote: »

One thing you definitely won't see when Trump kills the ACA is millions out protesting for poor people. You just won't get people with insurance going out to give a voice to those who can't afford it.

Anecdotal but I've been friends with a lot of Americans and there's a general distaste to the idea of their taxes helping the poor. The idea is repulsive to many.

What would genuinely be interesting would be to get the opinions of Americans on the ACA vs the opinions of Americans on Obamacare, to be honest.

(and yes, I know!)

seamus · 25-01-2017 03:45PM

Obamacare was an attempt to get through a hybrid system that would extend medical coverage without resulting in a massive backlash from the powerful profiteers who operate in the US Health system.

And it worked; it extended medical coverage to about 25 million people who never had it before.

Realistically the US system is too far down the rabbit hole for things to be rewritten. Both parties are too entrenched in the pockets of big business to do anything which will massively affect the profits sloshing around in healthcare.

The only real solution is a "Give with right hand and take with the left" situation where you do your utmost to extend insurance coverage universally across the population, and then slowly turn the screws on healthcare providers through increased federal taxes.

jooksavage · 25-01-2017 03:47PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

He carries the power now, Lord is a reasonable word to use for such a powerful man.

Oooooookay... I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you're way into Game of Thrones?

I assume you're joshing us, but it does remind me of the story about Ben Franklin telling the crowds that the constitutional convention was to create "a republic... if you can keep it." 230 years. Not a bad run.

Grayson · 25-01-2017 03:50PM

Rachel Maddow did a piece on the EPA and Trump gagging it.

During Pruitts time as attorney general of Oklahoma the number of man made earthquakes increased from about 30 a year to 600 a year. They're all due to fracking. What Pruitt did was send a letter to the EPA telling them to keep their nose out of Oklahoma's business.

A Little Pony · 25-01-2017 03:52PM

jooksavage wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

He carries the power now, Lord is a reasonable word to use for such a powerful man.

Oooooookay... I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you're way into Game of Thrones?

I assume you're joshing us, but it does remind me of the story about Ben Franklin telling the crowds that the constitutional convention was to create "a republic... if you can keep it." 230 years. Not a bad run.

No, he reminds me of a Lord from Imperial Japan.

Jimmy Garlic · 25-01-2017 03:52PM

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

But it would be funny if some fake voters were found and admitted that they used their votes to vote him in.

Plenty in NY, Florida and California etc where loopholes mean that non-citizens/illegals can register to vote when they apply for a drivers license. Only US citizens are eligible to vote in US presidential elections. Millions of illegals who have no right to vote voted, mostly for Clinton.

Butters1979 · 25-01-2017 03:53PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

So a lot of people agreeing with something means it's correct? I think a lot of people are leaning more and more that way as a backlash against elements of the left. Now, I can understand why people would want to do such a thing, I'd even support it in many ways. What I can't understand and will never support is swinging to the other extreme as a response. There are better ways to do things.

Nonviable as in there is no way for him to be able to implement all of his contradictory promises. Not without making America worse off anyway.

A lot of people agreeing with something doesn't make it right any more than a lot of people disagreeing with something makes it wrong. My point was not everyone feels the same way and I get the feeling that some people vastly underestimate the amount of those that disagree with them.

I actually do agree with you in terms of some people, including Trump are now going to far, and expect a backlash against Trump to a certain extend which will swing people back to the left a bit. Time will tell.

Trent Houseboat · 25-01-2017 03:53PM

Deleted User wrote:

One thing you definitely won't see when Trump kills the ACA is millions out protesting for poor people. You just won't get people with insurance going out to give a voice to those who can't afford it.

ACA was well represented at the massive women's marches across America on Saturday.

Sonics2k · 25-01-2017 03:54PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

He carries the power now, Lord is a reasonable word to use for such a powerful man.

I bet Enda would be delighted. Lord Kenny has a certain to it.

25-01-2017 03:57PM

Trent Houseboat wrote: »

ACA was well represented at the massive women's marches across America on Saturday.

As just another thing to attack Trump with.

Trent Houseboat · 25-01-2017 03:59PM

Jimmy Garlic wrote:

Millions of illegals who have no right to vote voted, mostly for Clinton.

Source?

Trent Houseboat · 25-01-2017 04:01PM

Deleted User wrote:

As just another thing to attack Trump with.

You're right and they probably don't care about racism or sexism either, they were just looking to be contrarians.

That is the worst argument since "it's the media's fault".

jooksavage · 25-01-2017 04:01PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

No, he reminds me of a Lord from Imperial Japan.

Grand. That's a baffling comparison, but grand. At least we're both in agreement that he better resembles an ancient despot than a champion of the Republic.

25-01-2017 04:04PM

Trent Houseboat wrote: »

Source?

Not me.

Trent Houseboat · 25-01-2017 04:08PM

Deleted User wrote:

Not me.

Sorry, failing at multitasking.

jobbridge4life · 25-01-2017 04:11PM

Butters1979 wrote: »

A lot of people agreeing with something doesn't make it right any more than a lot of people disagreeing with something makes it wrong. My point was not everyone feels the same way and I get the feeling that some people vastly underestimate the amount of those that disagree with them.

You've made that same point repeatedly. Again, Trump won, Brexit won, Marine Le Pen, etc. People know, people get it.

Grayson · 25-01-2017 04:17PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Not me.

I know it's not you but ......This is a story about Sean Spicer but here's a snippet.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/01/how-sean-spicer-wins-by-losing-214688

On Tuesday, Sean invited another beating when he insisted that a Pew study supported the president’s assertion that great numbers of non-citizens could have voted in the election, when they obviously didn’t, as the primary author of the study tweeted in real time.

This kind of stuff is worrying. The fact that a president can just come out and say all this crap is very disturbing. I know there's been a lot of people saying Trump is a dictator. He isn't. He hasn't got the power of a dictator. But his personality is very similar to it. Tinpot dictators tend to make insane proclamations and expect people to believe them.

What's more worrying is that they create their own facts. When you're building policy you need it to be based on facts. If they can just interject their own "alternative facts" (I know you hate that phrase, sorry) and base policy on that it'll be a disaster.

And gagging federal agencies feeds into this. Trump does something. Trump says it's because of a,b & c. Turns out that a,b & c are not true. However the agencies responsible can't say this. And when it fails they can't say that either.

Gbear · 25-01-2017 04:17PM

Grayson wrote: »

During Pruitts time as attorney general of Oklahoma the number of man made earthquakes increased from about 30 a year to 600 a year.

That isn't an important statistic unless you give it context.

Even if you'd actually said what magnitude those quakes were I'm not a seismologist, so I don't know what effect that might have.
Entire cities could've been swallowed up, there could be absolutely no adverse effects from those quakes, or anything in between.

I'm sure there's enough science and facts that can be used without using contextless fearmongering.

Grayson · 25-01-2017 04:19PM

Gbear wrote: »

That isn't an important statistic unless you give it context.

Even if you'd actually said what magnitude those quakes were I'm not a seismologist, so I don't know what effect that might have.
Entire cities could've been swallowed up, there could be absolutely no adverse effects from those quakes, or anything in between.

I'm sure there's enough science and facts that can be used without using contextless fearmongering.

They are all above 3.0. In the last two years the biggest earthquakes in the US have been there and capped out about 5.6 (I'm writing this from memory. It might be 5.4 or 5.7)

If you watch the video it has all those details.

Hail To The Chief (Read Mod Warning In OP)

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