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A Slow Journey to Faster Times

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    tang1 wrote: »
    All the best in Waterford in the morning P, run well.

    Cheers B.
    Only update since last post is a 19:20 parkrun from Ardgillan last Saturday. Just some easy runs since to keep me ticking over.
    Considering I ran a 17:15 5k the week before my HM pb and an 18:55 the week before the DHM, it's looking like I'll be closer to the latter than the former on Saturday.
    We live in hope though.....


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,936 ✭✭✭annapr


    Good luck tomorrow P!

    At least you didn't get lost in ardgillen this time so that's a good omen!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭jake1970


    Best of luck P.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭healy1835


    Best of luck this morning mate.....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,121 ✭✭✭tang1


    Nice running P, well done.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    1:24:35

    For once I'm happy.
    Very solid, steady effort all the way and close to a two minute improvement from September on a similar course. A lot of work to be done, but some steps in the right direction.
    Great running by the rest of DNS crew :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,936 ✭✭✭annapr


    yaboya1 wrote: »
    1:24:35

    For once I'm happy.
    Very solid, steady effort all the way and close to a two minute improvement from September on a similar course. A lot of work to be done, but some steps in the right direction.
    Great running by the rest of DNS crew :)

    Well done P, great time and main thing is you're happy with it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,831 ✭✭✭Annie get your Run


    yaboya1 wrote: »
    1:24:35

    For once I'm happy.
    Very solid, steady effort all the way and close to a two minute improvement from September on a similar course. A lot of work to be done, but some steps in the right direction.
    Great running by the rest of DNS crew :)

    Delighted for you P, onwards and upwards.


  • Registered Users Posts: 752 ✭✭✭Back in Black


    Well done. Nice running


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,119 ✭✭✭Mrs Mc


    Well done P :)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    Thanks for all the good wishes (pre & post race).
    I already feel like Saturday's race has brought me on a ton and am gunning for London now on April 23rd. Yesterday I registered for Raheny & Trim, and will do the same for Ballycotton tomorrow. Can't seem to find a valid link for the Enniscorthy 10k, but will be entering that race too as soon as I do. I've a feeling 2017 will be a good one for me :)

    In the meantime, another parkrun this Saturday.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    24-12-2016

    End of year update:

    Been following Hansons Marathon Method since Waterford. Have to say I'm really enjoying the variety of sessions and the differing paces for almost every run. Definitely keeps you on your toes and prevents boredom setting in. By starting the plan early, I've given myself some buffer weeks to allow for some down time over Christmas & to fit some prep races in. So far, so good with all target paces being hit in each workout.

    Running wise, that looks like being it from me now until January 2nd so a Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to all. I'll try harder to keep my log more regularly updated in 2017 :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,044 ✭✭✭chickey2


    I've just bought a copy of the Hanson half marathon book so I'll be following your progress too!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,119 ✭✭✭Mrs Mc


    Down time ???? You mean going on the pxss !!!!

    Happy Christmas P :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    1-1-2017

    After a week of over indulgence I decided to get the year off to a good start with an unscheduled blowout, before getting back to the plan tomorrow.

    Headed to Griffeen parkrun, where I was left for dead in a distant third behind TRR and another prolific parkrun first finisher. Definitely feeling the effects of Christmas, with my time more than 30 seconds slower than last week's effort. However, I suppose it's better than lying on the couch all day!

    Raheny is my next big target and I'm expecting to be in far better shape by then. I may even threaten a pb as my 5m best is pretty weak in comparison to some of the other distances.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    Mrs Mc wrote: »
    Down time ???? You mean going on the pxss !!!!

    Happy Christmas P :)

    You know me so well........ :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    2016 was a year to forget for me running wise, so I'm kind of glad it's over. Rounded it off with two December parkruns of 18:30 & 18:03.

    My two main aims in 2017 are to run a good marathon for the first time in ages (if I do this, the time will look after itself and be a lot better than any previous attempts) and to break 60 minutes for 10 miles. My times at other distances should also fall naturally as a result. A sub 1:20 HM is also a longer term goal (not currently signed up for a HM and no idea when I'll actually run my next one). None of these will be anything close to easy, but I feel they are achieveable once I apply myself to the training.

    An 18:36 parkrun today does make the above seem laughable, but I'm going to give myself a break there and make a judgement off another one in a couple of weeks, when the previous eight days hasn't involved zero running while binging on junk food & alcohol.

    I'm also committed to getting back to regular logging, so I think I'll target one entry per week detailing the previous seven days training.

    Now that I've written it all down, I just have to do it :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,121 ✭✭✭tang1


    I know your not a man for backslapping and this is not meant as such, but you've proven in the past when you really concentrate the mind on something you achieve it. Hopefully London will be one of those such occasions, keep the log updated, it's always a great read.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    London Marathon - Week 5/18


    Monday 2nd January
    6.39m @ 7:50p/m average (138bpm avg)

    This was a lot more difficult than it should have been. Felt so sluggish. Average HR for the same workout two weeks ago was only 126bpm.


    Tuesday 3rd January
    3k w/u @ 8:07p/m average (135bpm avg)
    5 x 1k @ 5:46p/m average with 400m recoveries (165bpm avg)
    3k c/d @ 8:13p/m average (149bpm avg)

    Found this very tough, a lot tougher than any of the similar speed sessions in the plan so far. Welcome rest day tomorrow. Very cold outside, but perfect for running.


    Wednesday 4th January
    Rest


    Thursday 5th January
    2m w/u @ 7:46 p/m average (136bpm avg)
    6m @ 6:28p/m average (168bpm avg)
    2m c/d @ 8:08p/m average (157bpm)


    This was hellish!
    I've managed two identical sessions in recent weeks far more comfortably, but the average HR here was higher than the 5x1k's on Tuesday or any of my most recent parkruns.


    Friday 6th January
    7m @ 7:43p/m average (139bpm avg)

    Legs a bit stiff on this one, but fine otherwise.


    Saturday 7th January
    6m @ 7:16p/m average (145bpm)

    No issues, but slightly tougher than same run in recent weeks.


    Sunday 8th January
    12m @ 7:03p/m average (147bpm)

    Much better. Felt stronger as the run went on and the HR for this one is below a 10 miler at the same pace 2/3 weeks ago.


    I feel like I really suffered from over-indulging during the Christmas period, but today seemed like a big step in the right direction and I'm looking forward to continuing that progress next week. I've got a three week buffer to play with since I started the plan so early, and I'm planning to use that around my prep races. This should prevent burnout and the need to miss key sessions.
    Really enjoying the plan. Tired & fatigued, but never sore or injured. Definitely feels like marathon training :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    London Marathon - Week 6/18

    Monday 9th January
    6m @ 7:50p/m average (130bpm avg)

    Almost back to normal. HR back around where it should be for a run like this.


    Tuesday 10th January
    2.5k w/u @ 8:11p/m average (136bpm avg)
    4 x 1200m @ 5:53p/m average with 400m recoveries (167bpm avg)
    2.5k c/d @ 8:30p/m average (142bpm avg)


    This looks far better in the quick summary above than it actually was. The truth is I made an absolute ring of it.
    My original plan was to do it in two and a bit loops of the Tom Brennan route (6.4k including recoveries). This would take in the strong wind that was blowing from all directions and give a fair reflection of the overall workout. It was only about a mile into my warm up I realised I'd forgotten my head torch. That meant that route was now out as it's pitch black with no lighting. The less than ideal plan b was to run in the grass beside the cycle path down Chesterfield staying as close as possible to the lamposts at the roadside so I could keep an eye on the garmin. Reps 1&2 went fine (5:41/5:43 pace) with two handy jogged recoveries. HR in the mid 160s. Perfect! Turned back uphill into a strong headwind for rep 3. It all went wrong from here. I was around halfway through before glancing at the watch to see I was on 5:59 pace exerting a higher effort level. Here's where I should have allowed for the conditions and seen out the last two reps at that effort for a good solid workout. But no, I obsessed about getting the pace back into the 5:40's and worked so hard doing so that I badly faded in the last 100-200m of the rep, had to walk the recovery and completely blew up in the final one so that the pace was a full 30secs/mile slower than rep 1 with the HR going through the roof. Splits of 4:16, 4:17, 4:26 & 4:38 tell the real story :( . HR didn't get close to rep 3&4 levels during reps 1&2 even though the latter were much quicker. Walked the last recovery too and eventually shuffled home with my tail between my legs utterly ashamed of myself.


    Wednesday 11th January
    Rest


    Thursday 12th January
    2m w/u @ 7:46 p/m average (144bpm avg)
    7m @ 6:37p/m average (163bpm avg)
    2m c/d @ 7:55p/m average (145bpm)


    Got home from work with perfect running conditions prevailing outside. By the time I had changed and headed back out the door, it was a blizzard!
    Even some of the warm up was hard work here with the wind pelting the snow straight in my face. I learned a bit of a lesson from Tuesday though, backing off slightly to ensure a solid consistent workout. Average pace is about eight seconds slower than I've been hitting with these ones lately, but I'll take that allowing for the weather and the fact that I ended up coming to a complete stop in a dead end at one stage :P


    Friday 13th January
    6.33m @ 7:55p/m average (129bpm avg)

    This was very easy, which it should be.


    Saturday 14th January
    10m @ 8:17p/m average (136bpm)

    Hooked up early with DNS crew for this one. Luckily didn't heed Murph_D's awful weather forecast, otherwise I'd probably have pneumonia by now :)
    Was going to give St Anne's parkrun a proper bash (mainly for some redemption after Tuesday night), but with the course looking a but slippy in places I stuck to the plan and saw out ten easy miles. Did not feel them going by at all, such was the quality of the company :D


    Sunday 15th January
    8m @ 6:54p/m average (145bpm)

    Really surprised myself here. Was feeling a bit rough today after my first alcoholic beverages of 2017 last night and expected this to be a bit of a slog. It wasn't. It was pretty effortless. HR is lower than last Sunday with the pace almost 10secs/mile faster. Can't complain about that!


    A week of training that didn't look too promising on Tuesday evening ended up working out pretty well. Might give a parkrun a go next Saturday, but not pushed. Looking forward to Raheny the week after.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    London Marathon - Week 7/18

    Monday 16th January
    6m @ 7:54p/m average (132bpm avg)

    Nice run taking in some trails in Roscommon. Garmin battery went in the last mile, but I continued to my finishing point at what felt the same pace so I'm pretty sure the stats are accurate enough.


    Tuesday 17th January
    2m w/u @ 8:41p/m average (129bpm avg)
    400m-800m-1200m-1600m-1200m-800m-400m @ 5:51p/m average with 400m recoveries (162bpm)
    2m c/d @ 8:57p/m average (132bpm avg)


    Really starting to struggle with some of these speed sessions. I never felt in the mood for this from the start and was in trouble fairly early on, the first 1200m rep to be precise. I eventually huffed & puffed my way through that, before almost completely giving up during the next one (1600m). Had to slow the pace a bit there to ensure I'd be able for the remaining reps and avoid a repeat of last week. Got a bit of a second wind after that and saw the others out fairly ok. Average looks ok, but again the rep paces were a bit uneven (per mile paces):

    400 - 5:44
    800 - 5:52
    1200 - 5:48
    1600 - 6:09
    1200 - 5:54
    800 - 5:56
    400 - 5:50



    Wednesday 18th January
    Rest


    Thursday 19th January
    2m w/u @ 8:01p/m average (127bpm avg)
    7m @ 6:34p/m average (155bpm avg)
    2m c/d @ 7:44p/m average (141bpm)


    Very, very happy with this. The recent target for the MP miles has been 6:29p/m but the effort required to hold that felt a bit too high, so I eased off slightly settling for 6:35 pace instead. Although it was only a six second difference, I felt way more comfortable and the HR was nice and low in comparison to some recent MP workouts where it had been skyrocketing. Finished this really strongly too.


    Friday 20th January
    7m @ 7:55p/m average (136bpm avg)

    A bit less relaxing than I'd have liked, but can't really complain.


    Saturday 21st January
    8m @ 7:16p/m average (141bpm)

    Not a complete breeze, but fairly straightforward.


    Sunday 22nd January
    14m @ 7:03p/m average (145bpm)

    There was a real possibility I wouldn't get this done at all, with some unexpected events popping up today leaving me really pushed for time. So to get out at all I was delighted, but to hit target pace in the fashion I did has me absolutely over the moon. I nailed this, felt really good during & after and again the HR is almost down to easy levels. Buzzing!


    So, this weeks observations. I really feel absolutely flogging the life out of myself in any workout is counter productive and don't wish to repeat either of the last two Tuesdays. I'm going to drop the paces for those sessions back to sub 6:00p/m pace as well as leaving Thursday's MP target at 6:35. If I can hit that on the day I'll be happy, but consistently knocking out sessions at those paces on both days may see me get fitter and be capable of faster on the day. Keep trying too hard to hit the faster paces and I wear myself out, resulting in a need for extra recovery, injury or both. Not a good idea. I'm drawing on my own experience here when I trained for 3:30 in Seville and ran 3:08. It can be done.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭El Caballo


    First off, it's great to see you getting back into shape man and running well again. Good to see you pull it back a bit too. Just a question on the MP runs and I could be wrong here as I don't know your HR stats but is 6:35 still not a bit on the quick side? The reason I say that is because you ran just a hair under 6:30 pace for a half just over a month ago, your fitness definitely seems to have come on but has it got to the point where 6:35 is aerobic yet?

    Is the pace based on your goal or your current fitness? This may sound critical, not the intention as I think you will agree from what you have wrote in the past that you haven't yet translated your half marathon pace into a marathon so this is where I'm coming from with the questions above as regards to right now rather than where you will be at in London if you get what I'm saying. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    El Caballo wrote: »
    First off, it's great to see you getting back into shape man and running well again. Good to see you pull it back a bit too. Just a question on the MP runs and I could be wrong here as I don't know your HR stats but is 6:35 still not a bit on the quick side? The reason I say that is because you ran just a hair under 6:30 pace for a half just over a month ago, your fitness definitely seems to have come on but has it got to the point where 6:35 is aerobic yet?

    Is the pace based on your goal or your current fitness? This may sound critical, not the intention as I think you will agree from what you have wrote in the past that you haven't yet translated your half marathon pace into a marathon so this is where I'm coming from with the questions above as regards to right now rather than where you will be at in London if you get what I'm saying. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts anyway.

    It may not be your intention, but criticism is good imo. You learn from your mistakes and all that :D

    Anyway, I'm posting my HR stats for my own info, but I'm not actually paying attention to it during the runs or training to a certain zone/rate. The Hansons plan is based purely on paces and emphasises that HR will naturally drop for the same pace if you consistently train at those speeds. I hit 181bpm in the finishing straight of the PP 5 miler during the summer, so assuming that's my HRMax, 155bpm seems perfectly acceptable for MP runs to me. My average in Waterford for similar pace was 165bpm, so fitness has definitely improved a bit and I'd be fairly confident of knocking a chunk off that Waterford time if I ran a HM tomorrow.

    Hansons plan recommend running the tempo runs at MP from start to finish, meaning you become so familiar/comfortable with the pace that it doesn't actually feel difficult by the time race day comes. Thursday night was the easiest MP session I've completed to date, so I'd say it's a fair reflection of current fitness. If I was running a marathon this week, I think I could go sub 3, so 6:35 may not be current MP but I feel comfortable enough with it to train at that pace in the tempo runs. If anything I think I'll be speeding them up as the plan goes on. I doubt I'll need to slow them down, definitely not if the last couple of MP/long runs are anything to go by. I'm running both the Trim & Ballycotton 10 Mile races, which should give me a fair indication of how realistic my MP is. I'm also running Raheny next Sunday, but given that's only five miles that result may be a less reliable indicator.

    I do get what you're saying above, but I'm trusting Hansons and some of the running brains I've consulted (from here & elsewhere) who have all advised me in one way or another that I need to get my tempo/LT pace down in order to translate my shorter distance times to the marathon. I'm happy enough to try that for now and make a judgement on the London result.


    *Again, I know being critical may not have been your intention but I welcome all feedback on this log and there's not enough criticism on this board as a whole. If it's constructive, it's far more useful than praise imo.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Wow - 6:35 as MP - that would be amazing if you could pull it off.

    Have you any milestones or key sessions that would indicate that you are on target for that.
    The travesty would be to see you aim high and not make the start line.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭El Caballo


    :D That's a hell of an answer. Fair enough dude, I hope you smash it anyway. Might see you see you in Ballycotton, don't think we'll be running alongside eachother this time though:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    Wow - 6:35 as MP - that would be amazing if you could pull it off.

    Have you any milestones or key sessions that would indicate that you are on target for that.
    The travesty would be to see you aim high and not make the start line.

    I had sub 2:50 as an arbitrary number in my head (6:29MP) but as mentioned above, that just felt a tad too difficult lately so I eased off slightly. HR average for 6:35 pace the other night was 155bpm, which should definitely be achieveable for a full marathon (if not even higher, had been thinking 160-165). I realise it may have risen a bit more if I was doing more than seven miles at that pace, but I've got 13 weeks to get fit enough to give it a go. If I get to the start line and don't believe that's a realistic target pace on the day, I'll have no problem scaling it back a bit. I've learned two very painful lessons in my last two rather embarrassing goes at the marathon. The two 10 mile races should give me a far more accurate prediction, especially Ballycotton which is only 6 weeks out and will probably ultimately decide my MP.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭FBOT01


    Heading in the right direction, P.

    My twopence worth.

    Based on your historical HR data I would have thought 160-165 is above your MP HR might even be in your LT Zone.

    I think the target for you should be to build the endurance to allow you to run @ 6:30 with a HR less than the 155 avg you ran last week rather than looking at trying to increase avg HR. This will be far more sustainable. Running at 160-165 won't be sustainable over Marathon Distance for you IMHO.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    FBOT01 wrote: »
    Heading in the right direction, P.

    My twopence worth.

    Based on your historical HR data I would have thought 160-165 is above your MP HR might even be in your LT Zone.

    I think the target for you should be to build the endurance to allow you to run @ 6:30 with a HR less than the 155 avg you ran last week rather than looking at trying to increase avg HR. This will be far more sustainable. Running at 160-165 won't be sustainable over Marathon Distance for you IMHO.

    You're probably right.
    As I was saying, I didn't check the HR data until after the run, so felt fine at 155bpm without knowing it was 155bpm at the time. If I felt as comfortable at 160-165bpm (I don't atm) I think I could sustain that effort, but it's probably more likely the pace will drop a bit at 155bpm rather than being able to hold the higher HR for the whole marathon.
    I'm usualy fairly decent at gauging the pace I can sustain myself without looking at live splits or HR, with the exception of Boston & New York where I ignored my less than ideal preparation and more importantly my brain on the day :P


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭overpronator


    Havent been around these parts for a while, great to see you back moving well again P. Ill be joining you in London looking for a bitta redemption after detonating in Berlin last September.

    Im doing Trim too also as a guage of fitness but will be nowhere near my PB. Will keep an eye out for you. Any goal time in mind?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    Havent been around these parts for a while, great to see you back moving well again P. Ill be joining you in London looking for a bitta redemption after detonating in Berlin last September.

    Im doing Trim too also as a guage of fitness but will be nowhere near my PB. Will keep an eye out for you. Any goal time in mind?

    Thanks.
    Plan for Raheny is go hard or go home.
    Trim goal time will be based on Raheny result ;)


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