Nintendo Switch (Nintendo's next console)

OwaynOTT · 14-01-2017 07:24PM

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Honestly, those two aren't worth mentioning in the company of Bloodborne or The Last Guardian.
Bloodborne and TLG are bonafide masterpieces, once in a console generation kind of games, The Last Guardian could well find itself, along with Ico and SotC to be the kind of excellence that transcends console generations to be amongst the truly incredible games of all time, alongside Galaga, Pacman, Asteroids, Super Mario World, Ocarina of Time, Resident Evil 4, Super Mario Kart and so on.

And rise of the robots surely?

Danonino. · 14-01-2017 07:25PM

The price thing I still don't understand. People being surprised or disappointed. I mean:

-A New 3DS XL in Smyths/Argos are around €240 no game.

-A Wii U in Smyths/Argos is €300/€310 with Mario kart 8.

- PS4/Xbox one available for approx €300 new no game.

- The PS Vita, PSP and Wii launched at €250 if I remember correctly.

Way I look at it.
The PS4 and One are 3 years old, had time to get an install base and so price drops and revised models etc. They are home consoles like the Wii U, so if we look at the normal price NEW for a home console right now (never mind launch prices) is around €300. Of course this changes massively when you wait for sales/bundles/used but for buying a console new in a shop you're looking at around €300.

The price of handhelds have always been lower but even now to buy the most recent 3DS your still looking at €230+.

This had me expecting the switch to be somewhere around €300 at launch because the high powered handhelds like PSP and Vita were around the €250 mark and Consoles Upwards of €300.

The accessories yes, I agree they look to be overpriced. But Nintendo accessories always have been. Wavebirds for the GameCube were released at silly prices, Wii motes still ask €45+ euro.

Benzino · 14-01-2017 07:26PM

OwaynOTT wrote: »

And rise of the robots surely?

I'd add The Last of Us to that list too

earthwormjack · 14-01-2017 07:27PM

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

I don't paticularly like the last guardian, find it clunky as anything.

I like Ueda and Team ICO games, but found the camera and controls can often be frustrating.

orubiru · 14-01-2017 07:29PM

johnpatrick81 wrote: »

Doomed to the failed sales of WiiU. I get you are a fanboy as you yourself point out, but take off the blinkers for a second.

Now which number is better, 80million or 13million?

If you think the WiiU was a success you haven't a clue about business and surprise surprise Nintendo are a business.

I love my Wii U and I have gotten heaps of games on it.

However for Nintendo to stay in the hardware market which we all want, we need them to make this a success. It's not a good start.

Clearly 80 million is better than 13 million here but what I am asking is are Nintendo really even trying to challenge Sony or Microsoft in terms of units sold?

How much did Nintendo invest in the WiiU compared to how much profit they made? This would surely be the key factor rather than comparing to the number of PS4s sold.

A lot of posts saying things like "the PS4 has had some nice exclusives" or comparing the cost of the Switch to the cost of the PS4 but for me that's not REALLY comparing like for like.

Just as there is a difference between AAA games trying to be as generic and trendy as possible and indie games being targeted towards more specific audiences, I'd say there is a difference between how Playstation approaches the market compared to how Nintendo approaches it.

Playstation and Xbox hold more of the market share and that is never likely to change. PS4 particularly seems wildly successful. Nintendo Switch will not change that.

So what does "doomed" mean? "Not selling as many units as Playstation"?

How many WiiU did Nintendo expect to sell versus how many they actual sold?

How many Nintendo Switch units do they expect to sell?

Danonino. · 14-01-2017 07:29PM

The Last Guardian was the most fantastic and inspiring game with the worst controls I ever played.

Benzino · 14-01-2017 07:34PM

Danonino. wrote: »

The PS4 and One are 3 years old, had time to get an install base and so price drops and revised models etc. They are home consoles like the Wii U, so if we look at the normal price NEW for a home console right now (never kind launch prices) is around €300.

If the switch was launching alongside the PS4 and Xbox One, it'd be grand price wise (and launch title wise). But it's not, and so for the same price as it you can get another more powerful console with a game or 2 and have a much bigger catelog of games available to you.

The switch of course has it's advantages, but it seems people don't think they warrant the cost.

The accessories seem way overpriced, and that's taking into account accessories for most consoles are over priced to begin with.

I'm thinking of picking it up in 2018, though I expect big announcements from MS at E3 so see how that goes.

johnpatrick81 · 14-01-2017 07:36PM

orubiru, are you honestly trying to argue that Nintendo see the WiiU as anything other than a complete commercial flop?

They gave up on it before the release of one of its most eagerly awaited games. That fact alone confirms hey acknowledged it's failure.

Benzino · 14-01-2017 07:38PM

orubiru wrote: »

Clearly 80 million is better than 13 million here but what I am asking is are Nintendo really even trying to challenge Sony or Microsoft in terms of units sold?

How much did Nintendo invest in the WiiU compared to how much profit they made? This would surely be the key factor rather than comparing to the number of PS4s sold.

A lot of posts saying things like "the PS4 has had some nice exclusives" or comparing the cost of the Switch to the cost of the PS4 but for me that's not REALLY comparing like for like.

Just as there is a difference between AAA games trying to be as generic and trendy as possible and indie games being targeted towards more specific audiences, I'd say there is a difference between how Playstation approaches the market compared to how Nintendo approaches it.

Playstation and Xbox hold more of the market share and that is never likely to change. PS4 particularly seems wildly successful. Nintendo Switch will not change that.

So what does "doomed" mean? "Not selling as many units as Playstation"?

How many WiiU did Nintendo expect to sell versus how many they actual sold?

How many Nintendo Switch units do they expect to sell?

Software sales are more important I think than hardware sales, I think this is where Nintendo generally fall down (could be wrong). Their first party games do really well, but third party games struggle.

Osmosis Jones · 14-01-2017 07:39PM

The way I see it it's 360 quid if you want to play anything on it, considering there's currently no bundle announced. 430 if you want a "pro controller" which is really just a standard controller.

orubiru · 14-01-2017 07:42PM

super_furry wrote: »

Doomed or not, if the Switch doesn't perform better than the Wii U did, I'd be pretty confident it'd be the last Nintendo console we ever see. They've gone all in on bringing their mobile and console platforms together with this and over the lifetime of the Switch, I'd think that they really need it to at least match what the 3DS did sales wise.

I honestly expect it to perform similarly to the Wii U. From comments on Facebook etc it seems like a lot of people are not clear on whether it is a home console or a handheld and I would guess that, from a parents perspective, people are a bit miffed that their kids will be demanding another 300+ euro console.

Is it here to replace the 3DS? Or is it something you can own alongside a 3DS? I don't really need 2 handhelds.

I expect we will see some great games but overall it seems like a bit of a pointless exercise.

It's clearly not going to compete with PS4 and so I think you could assume between 15 and 30 million units sold over the next 4 years.

Maybe we will see them release a new "Gameboy" branded handheld in 2022 or something.

The Switch just feels like a niche product for a niche market.

mdwexford · 14-01-2017 07:42PM

orubiru wrote: »

A lot of posts saying things like "the PS4 has had some nice exclusives" or comparing the cost of the Switch to the cost of the PS4 but for me that's not REALLY comparing like for like.

Why would the average person care about market share or investment or units sold.

All I care about is playing enjoyable games. So it's entirely reasonable to compare one games console to another games console to see which will provide more entertainment and value for money.

MilesMorales1 · 14-01-2017 07:46PM

I'm going with

330 for the console, I've paid Gamestop 140 now, I asked about my pre order since the receipt just says 'Switch Hardware' but I don't think they had a clue what I was talking about.
60 for Zelda.
20 for a case.
20 for a couple of VC games.

= 430.

earthwormjack · 14-01-2017 07:46PM

How are people not clear on whether it's a handheld or a home console? That's the one thing I thought Nintendo got across well.

orubiru · 14-01-2017 07:54PM

johnpatrick81 wrote: »

orubiru, are you honestly trying to argue that Nintendo see the WiiU as anything other than a complete commercial flop?

They gave up on it before the release of one of its most eagerly awaited games. That fact alone confirms hey acknowledged it's failure.

I'm not arguing one way or the other.

It's kind of a simple set of questions.

How much did Nintendo invest in the Wii U over it's lifecycle?
How much did they get in return for that investment?

How many Wii U units did they expect to sell?
How many Wii U units did they actually sell?

How much revenue did they expect to get from software sales?
How much revenue did they actually receive from software sales?

Seems a bit daft that anyone would comment on success or failure without knowing those figures.

I guess what I am saying is that people will throw around words like "flop" or "failure" or "doomed" but the actual conversation is so shallow.

Certainly, we can't speculate on whether or not the Switch (or Nintendo itself) is "doomed" without understanding what they are starting out to achieve in the first place.

Now, if Nintendo are seriously thinking the Switch is about to compete with PS4 and have invested into this console with that as a goal then, yes, the console is doomed.

Retr0gamer · 14-01-2017 07:55PM

Danonino. wrote: »

The Last Guardian was the most fantastic and inspiring game with the worst controls I ever played.

This generations Deadly Premonition

MilesMorales1 · 14-01-2017 07:58PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pArXLkXTXu8

Looks good to me.

ThisRegard · 14-01-2017 08:01PM

Danonino. wrote: »

- PS4/Xbox one available for approx €300 new no game.

500gb One S with game can be had for €259, 1TB with game for €319.

Nollog · 14-01-2017 08:03PM

ThisRegard wrote: »

500gb One S with game can be had for €259, 1TB with game for €319.

And GameStop are selling ps4 500gb with 2 games of your choice for 299.

Danonino. · 14-01-2017 08:05PM

I'm gonna stop commenting, I honestly don't see how the console itself is overpriced.
Why does price point seem so off? It's €50 more expensive than a new handheld release price and approx €100 cheaper than a new home console release price.

Comparing it to the PS4/One doesn't add up to me either, the switch isn't trying to be a powerful home console. It isn't a direct competitor. It can't be.
If someone wants a PS4/One they either already have one or will get one regardless if the switch exists or not. The install base of the PS4 is rediculous it's pretty much saturated. You can't compete against something that has already won!

The Switch, is releasing mid generation, with its own unique selling point and more than likely trying to make room for itself in the home console market as a second system alongside Sony/Microsoft but bringing the handheld market they dominate alone with them.

If Nintendo succeed in making the switch the console you can play a full home console version of Zelda/Mario on AND the portable which is home to the likes of Pokemon and Fire Emblem. If they avoid the mistakes of the Wii U where they actually didn't play to their core audience and only half explained the console to the audience they won with the wii. Then I see it being a massive success regardless of what else is on the market.

*It'll probably flop

nairy hipples · 14-01-2017 08:05PM

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pArXLkXTXu8

Looks good to me.

When they open up that tv dock it's basically just... hollow. There's hardly anything living inside that at all; charging $90 for that is outlandish!

johnpatrick81 · 14-01-2017 08:08PM

orubiru Dude, it's not up for discussion, the WiiU was a commercial flop. It's a fact.

Osmosis Jones · 14-01-2017 08:11PM

nairy hipples wrote: »

When they open up that tv dock it's basically just... hollow. There's hardly anything living inside that at all; charging $90 for that is outlandish!

It's a fancy HDMI cable :P

Really though I think that's one of the less egregious price points just based on the fact that I can't imagine too many people will want a second dock.

EDIT: Also does it not bother anyone that they're selling it either in black or with one red and one blue joycon? Why not a full red or blue set

ThisRegard · 14-01-2017 08:12PM

Danonino. wrote: »

I'm gonna stop commenting, I honestly don't see how the console itself is overpriced.

Just compared to the One and PS4, and if you've a Wii U already there's currently no killer reason to go for one over the other 2.

Danonino. · 14-01-2017 08:14PM

ThisRegard wrote: »

500gb One S with game can be had for €259, 1TB with game for €319.

/\/ollog wrote: »

And GameStop are selling ps4 500gb with 2 games of your choice for 299.

Even so, it doesn't make my point in the same post any less valid. Then again who cares. Buy a switch, don't buy a switch... Get a PS4 with two games when I'd almost guarantee that market already has one with 6 games over a year. Meh.

orubiru · 14-01-2017 08:15PM

Danonino. wrote: »

I'm gonna stop commenting, I honestly don't see how the console itself is overpriced.
Why does price point seem so off? It's €50 more expensive than a new handheld release price and approx €100 cheaper than a new home console release price.

Comparing it to the PS4/One doesn't add up to me either, the switch isn't trying to be a powerful home console. It isn't a direct competitor. It can't be.
If someone wants a PS4/One they either already have one or will get one regardless if the switch exists or not. The install base of the PS4 is rediculous it's pretty much saturated. You can't compete against something that has already won!

The Switch, is releasing mid generation, with its own unique selling point and more than likely trying to make room for itself in the home console market as a second system alongside Sony/Microsoft but bringing the handheld market they dominate alone with them.

If Nintendo succeed in making the switch the console you can play a full home console version of Zelda/Mario on AND the portable which is home to the likes of Pokemon and Fire Emblem. If they avoid the mistakes of the Wii U where they actually didn't play to their core audience and only half explained the console to the audience they won with the wii. Then I see it being a massive success regardless of what else is on the market.

*It'll probably flop

Yeah.

I think comparing the price or the specs (or both) to already existing consoles is pretty dumb but the reality is that this is the market Nintendo is trying to sell to.

Imagine you are marketing high end bicycles and every 2nd person you talk to complains because motorbikes can go faster and they can get a second hand one for half the price. Kinda feels like that's what we're seeing here.

ThisRegard · 14-01-2017 08:18PM

orubiru wrote: »

Imagine you are marketing high end bicycles and every 2nd person you talk to complains because motorbikes can go faster and they can get a second hand one for half the price. Kinda feels like that's what we're seeing here.

It's more akin to trying to sell a bike to someone who already has a pretty much identical one but with slightly different handlebars. As of yet I don't see a big enough differentiation between the Wii U and Switch.

nairy hipples · 14-01-2017 08:22PM

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

It's a fancy HDMI cable :P

Really though I think that's one of the less egregious price points just based on the fact that I can't imagine too many people will want a second dock.

EDIT: Also does it not bother anyone that they're selling it either in black or with one red and one blue joycon? Why not a full red or blue set

Just a question-instead of buying an extra dock could you just buy a USB-C to HDMI converter (they can be got for about €20) to play on extra televisions?

I wonder if there is anything special in the dock that the Switch recoginises that causes it to go into TV Mode or if a converter would suffice (the full experience of upscaling to 1080p as opposed to just mirroring the Switch screen)

orubiru · 14-01-2017 08:23PM

ThisRegard wrote: »

It's more akin to trying to sell a bike to someone who already has a pretty much identical one but with slightly different handlebars.

Haha.

Maybe.

I'm not seeing how the Switch and PS4 are comparable though?

Outside of "you play games on them" what other comparison is there really?

They will have a massively different selection of games.

You won't be playing your PS4 on the go any time soon.

You won't be playing games with the best graphics on your Nintendo Switch.

ThisRegard · 14-01-2017 08:45PM

They're not really comparible, but it is with the Wii U, too much maybe. Which is why one of the other consoles may be a bigger draw. There's not enough, at the moment, over what the Wii U has and if people didn't go for them, why go for the Switch.

Nintendo Switch (Nintendo's next console)

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