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Brexit: The Last Stand (No name calling)

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Comments

  • #4142
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The FPTP system really excels in preventing minority single interest groups from ever getting into power, the UKIP vote and lack of MPs being a classic example.
    But UKip are essentially hyper Tories and the UKip agenda is now driving the Tory government. You could say that 4 million UKip voters are driving the British parliament.


  • #4143
    Thargor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,258 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    Kind of drifted away from this thread so apologies if its been discussed but is anyone noticing all the articles about Britains booming "post-Brexit" economy lately? Everyday in the Telegraph, Express, Daily Mail etc they're crowing about how the doomsters got it wrong and the future is golden, maybe its just the way I use Google News that makes it look so hysterical.

    The thing I dont get is its like they're pretending its done and dusted and everybody was wrong in their predictions... but nothing has happened yet! Article 50 is nowhere near being triggered and thats just the start of years of negotiations... All this booming Britain talk could more logically be used as proof that the UK is better off in the EU. Does nobody on their staff point this out to the editors? Its seriously disturbing tbh, only the Guardian seems to be presenting any counterpoint, no mention of the 20% drop in their currency and how that hasnt even started to filter through to prices yet either.


  • #4144
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,392 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Thargor wrote: »
    Kind of drifted away from this thread so apologies if its been discussed but is anyone noticing all the articles about Britains booming "post-Brexit" economy lately? Everyday in the Telegraph, Express, Daily Mail etc they're crowing about how the doomsters got it wrong and the future is golden, maybe its just the way I use Google News that makes it look so hysterical.

    The thing I dont get is its like they're pretending its done and dusted and everybody was wrong in their predictions... but nothing has happened yet! Article 50 is nowhere near being triggered and thats just the start of years of negotiations... All this booming Britain talk could more logically be used as proof that the UK is better off in the EU. Does nobody on their staff point this out to the editors? Its seriously disturbing tbh, only the Guardian seems to be presenting any counterpoint, no mention of the 20% drop in their currency and how that hasnt even started to filter through to prices yet either.

    Exactement.


  • #4145
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    Thargor wrote: »
    Kind of drifted away from this thread so apologies if its been discussed but is anyone noticing all the articles about Britains booming "post-Brexit" economy lately? Everyday in the Telegraph, Express, Daily Mail etc they're crowing about how the doomsters got it wrong and the future is golden, maybe its just the way I use Google News that makes it look so hysterical.

    The thing I dont get is its like they're pretending its done and dusted and everybody was wrong in their predictions... but nothing has happened yet! Article 50 is nowhere near being triggered and thats just the start of years of negotiations... All this booming Britain talk could more logically be used as proof that the UK is better off in the EU. Does nobody on their staff point this out to the editors? Its seriously disturbing tbh, only the Guardian seems to be presenting any counterpoint, no mention of the 20% drop in their currency and how that hasnt even started to filter through to prices yet either.
    To quote a Lily Allen song
    I'll take my clothes off and it will be shameless
    Cause everyone knows that's how you get famous
    I'll look at the sun and I'll look in the mirror
    I'm on the right track yeah I'm on to a winner
    I don't know what's right and what's real anymore
    I don't know how I'm meant to feel anymore
    When do you think it will all become clear
    And I'll be taken over by the fear
    They're long gone.


  • #4146
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,392 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    catbear wrote: »
    To quote a Lily Allen song
    I'll take my clothes off and it will be shameless
    Cause everyone knows that's how you get famous
    I'll look at the sun and I'll look in the mirror
    I'm on the right track yeah I'm on to a winner
    I don't know what's right and what's real anymore
    I don't know how I'm meant to feel anymore
    When do you think it will all become clear
    And I'll be taken over by the fear
    They're long gone.

    Great song. Maybe they'll find a f*ckload of diamonds.


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  • #4147
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 96,053 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Egypt is finally accepting Irish Beef again after foot and mouth so one less worry for the agri sector.
    Egypt is now the largest consumer market in the Middle East and North Africa with around 95m consumers.


  • #4148
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 96,053 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38523368
    The UK will be unable to buy privileged access to the single market after it leaves the EU, says one of the top UK officials to have worked in Brussels.
    ...

    But Mr Faull said that Britain has one important card to play in the EU negotiations - co-operation on European defence.
    WTF ?
    Real dog in the manger stuff.
    What are they going to do ?
    Shoot themselves in the foot by pulling out of Interpol and NATO ?
    Sharing works both ways. If UK won't cooperate then one EU option would hard borders, and the UK has already ruled out this for NI (or is that more wishful thinking)

    Do you want a hard Brexit ? because this is how you get a hard Breit.


  • #4149
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    Well not selling arms to the middle east would actually help europe but that would be bad for business.

    what a duplicitous nation.


  • #4150
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    catbear wrote: »
    Well not selling arms to the middle east would actually help europe but that would be bad for business.

    what a duplicitous nation.

    How would it help Europe?


  • #4151
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76,934 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    catbear wrote: »
    Well not selling arms to the middle east would actually help europe but that would be bad for business.

    what a duplicitous nation.

    Duplicity and moral hypocrisy has always been the problem with Britain. 'Say one thing while doing another'.
    It never ceases to amaze me how Irish sycophants can compartmentalise what they do. e.g. lecture on morals in NI while simultaneously bombing the **** out of other parts of the world in pursuit of their aims or aiding others to do it and selling arms to a host of dubious customers.


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  • #4152
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Duplicity and moral hypocrisy has always been the problem with Britain. 'Say one thing while doing another'.
    It never ceases to amaze me how Irish sycophants can compartmentalise what they do. e.g. lecture on morals in NI while simultaneously bombing the **** out of other parts of the world in pursuit of their aims or aiding others to do it and selling arms to a host of dubious customers.

    Says the Shinner


  • #4153
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76,934 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Says the Shinner

    'Look over there' post of the year so far.
    I am not a 'Shinner'. I am not a member of any political party or group. Try again.


  • #4154
    MrPudding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    The UK dodged a bullet there then!

    I am begining to think they didn't dodge it. 4m votes and one MP. The tories get something like 11m votes, but get over 350 seats. A great way to make people feel like they aren't represented or being listened to. This is how we got Brexit, hardly a bullit dodged.

    MrP


  • #4155
    indioblack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,956 ✭✭✭indioblack


    MrPudding wrote: »
    I am begining to think they didn't dodge it. 4m votes and one MP. The tories get something like 11m votes, but get over 350 seats. A great way to make people feel like they aren't represented or being listened to. This is how we got Brexit, hardly a bullit dodged.

    MrP

    Good post. We've gotten so used to FPTP that we don't realize how it's gotten in the way of - what's that word? - democracy.


  • #4156
    A Little Pony
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    FPTP isn't really representative of the British people. 4 million votes and one MP is a scandal.


  • #4157
    Nate--IRL--
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,263 ✭✭✭Nate--IRL--


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    FPTP isn't really representative of the British people. 4 million votes and one MP is a scandal.

    And yet FPTP is what the British people voted for. Respecting referendums etc. etc.

    Nate


  • #4158
    MrPudding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    FPTP isn't really representative of the British people. 4 million votes and one MP is a scandal.

    As much as it pains me to say it, I quite agree. I despise UKIP, but I can't help but think things might be different if they had a more representative number of MPs. Under a PR system they would have had something like 56 MPs in the last election.

    MrP


  • #4159
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    MrPudding wrote: »
    As much as it pains me to say it, I quite agree. I despise UKIP, but I can't help but think things might be different if they had a more representative number of MPs. Under a PR system they would have had something like 56 MPs in the last election.

    MrP

    I'm not sure you can correlate it that easily, but yeah, they would have had quite a few.


  • #4160
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,538 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    FPTP isn't really representative of the British people. 4 million votes and one MP is a scandal.

    So you are in favour of PR for Westminister elections?


  • #4161
    MrPudding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    I'm not sure you can correlate it that easily, but yeah, they would have had quite a few.

    Someone did the sums, the BBC or the guardian. I can't remember the exact figure, more than 55 and less than 60.

    MrP


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  • #4162
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    MrPudding wrote: »
    Someone did the sums, the BBC or the guardian. I can't remember the exact figure, more than 55 and less than 60.

    MrP

    Would that not depend on what system though? Under a STV system, they would probably have been a very unpopular place to put a second or third preference.


  • #4163
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    So you are in favour of PR for Westminister elections?

    Are you?


  • #4164
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,538 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Are you?

    Absolutely and have been since I moved here. The system in place is not very democratic when the one party can rule in Government with an absolute majority even though only 37% of the voters voted for them.


  • #4165
    catbear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭catbear


    MrPudding wrote: »
    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    The UK dodged a bullet there then!

    I am begining to think they didn't dodge it. 4m votes and one MP. The tories get something like 11m votes, but get over 350 seats. A great way to make people feel like they aren't represented or being listened to. This is how we got Brexit, hardly a bullit dodged.

    MrP
    This is one instance where Nigel might have a point. After creating the EU scapegoat the Tories will either have to deliver a brexit or reap the discontent they sowed. I do not think it hyperbolic to imagine social discord to the point of needing troops as backup.


  • #4166
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    catbear wrote: »
    I do not think it hyperbolic to imagine social discord to the point of needing troops as backup.

    Good god, I bet you're fun at parties :rolleyes:


  • #4167
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    Absolutely and have been since I moved here. The system in place is not very democratic when the one party can rule in Government with an absolute majority even though only 37% of the voters voted for them.

    I'm not sure that has ever happened, but yeah, its a possibility.

    I like the Scottish system, kind of a hybrid between the two, but I really don't like the Irish system.

    Take the likes of Catherine Zappone. 4000 first preference votes in a constituency with 105,000 voters, gets elected at the 16th count and suddenly, because Fine Gael need a few independents to make up the numbers, she gets herself a nice ministerial job. It's bonkers.


  • #4168
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,538 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    I'm not sure that has ever happened, but yeah, its a possibility.

    The current UK Government got 37% of the vote and have a majority in the HoC thus they rule with no compromise to the 63%


  • #4169
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76,934 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    I'm not sure that has ever happened, but yeah, its a possibility.

    I like the Scottish system, kind of a hybrid between the two, but I really don't like the Irish system.

    Take the likes of Catherine Zappone. 4000 first preference votes in a constituency with 105,000 voters, gets elected at the 16th count and suddenly, because Fine Gael need a few independents to make up the numbers, she gets herself a nice ministerial job. It's bonkers.

    Wait till you get a load of the House Of Lords!


  • #4170
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    The current UK Government got 37% of the vote and have a majority in the HoC thus they rule with no compromise to the 63%

    so who should have the majority?


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  • #4171
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Wait till you get a load of the House Of Lords!

    no different to the Senate in reality


This discussion has been closed.
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