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Is Sinn Fein right? (The Stack Issue)

12467…28

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  • #92
    ForstalDave
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 612 ✭✭✭ForstalDave


    Doesn't matter if its tough to get answers and it doesnt matter if he has support what matters is asking the questions snd highlighting that those with answers are ignoring the issue, justice doesn't have to be easy bit it has to be pursued no matter how hard it is to get


  • #93
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,517 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    ForstalDave wrote: »
    And that there is why SF and GA have issues, the attitude towards people who have suffered such a loss is sickening

    Id not give up if it was my Dad and id not give a F if people thought id never get anywhere either id still ask and push for answers till my dying day because id want to know

    He got the info he wanted and because it wasn't what he wanted to hear he rejected it.

    In 2013 he wanted information about his fathers death;, he was given that. Now he wants justice and he expects somebody who has been totally consistent, clear and concise on why he can't assist in that, to help him. It was spelt out to him what he would get in 2013 and he accepted that. What has changed?


  • #94
    ForstalDave
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 612 ✭✭✭ForstalDave


    He still doesn't have justice abd it doesn't matter if he gets the answers, it does matter if the leader of a major political party has lied or withheld information

    Now I don't know that he has and till it is proved one way or the other I will reserve my opinion buti cant fault Stack for wanting answers even if he knows he will likely never get them or for him pointing out GA if he believes he knows more the he is telling


  • #95
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,517 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    ForstalDave wrote: »
    He still doesn't have justice abd it doesn't matter if he gets the answers, it does matter if the leader of a major political party has lied or withheld information

    Now I don't know that he has and till it is proved one way or the other I will reserve my opinion buti cant fault Stack for wanting answers even if he knows he will likely never get them or for him pointing out GA if he believes he knows more the he is telling

    But Adams has always said why he cannot enter into a process of naming people.

    What would happen if he did or if a loyalist leader did, do you think?


  • #96
    ForstalDave
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 612 ✭✭✭ForstalDave


    If he has information but feels he can not share it then he should resign, not thats just my opinion people are free to form their own


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  • #97
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,517 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    ForstalDave wrote: »
    If he has information but feels he can not share it then he should resign, not thats just my opinion people are free to form their own

    The people who elected him and his party are off the opinion that he shouldn't and they support his parties sensible proposals (because this way is patently pointless and divisive) to bring resolution to everyone.

    But it seems people are happy that FG FF exploit these people to deflect.


  • #98
    marienbad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    The people who elected him and his party are off the opinion that he shouldn't and they support his parties sensible proposals (because this way is patently pointless and divisive) to bring resolution to everyone.

    But it seems people are happy that FG FF exploit these people to deflect.

    But who do SF aspire to represent ? just those who vote for them or everyone ?


  • #99
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,517 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    marienbad wrote: »
    But who do SF aspire to represent ? just those who vote for them or everyone ?

    Those who elected them and those who agree with some of the things they want, which would be people like me.


  • #100
    marienbad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Those who elected them and those who agree with some of the things they want, which would be people like me.

    And there you have it in a nutshell Francie , until they aspire to represent all of us , including those who don't vote for them they will always remain a niche party


  • #101
    A Little Pony
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    ForstalDave wrote: »
    How is the family of a murdered man seeking answers and justice victim exploration?

    Because you know,I know it, and those exploiting him know it

    The IRA are never going to give up its members like that.

    Either he is extremely naive or being put up to it.....by those unknown for there own perverse pleasure??
    His dad was murdered by those cowardly dirt bags. I don't blame him confronting the evil that is Gerry Adams and Sinn Fein.


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  • #102
    A Little Pony
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    ForstalDave wrote: »
    And that there is why SF and GA have issues, the attitude towards people who have suffered such a loss is sickening

    Id not give up if it was my Dad and id not give a F if people thought id never get anywhere either id still ask and push for answers till my dying day because id want to know

    Aye....but you've not sworn an oath of silence/service and have the tgreat of death hanging over if you break it


    Not in 1921 would the IRA give up tom Barry....they are hardly going to change their rules now??



    And you'll have plenty in the country Whatll encourage you in your somewhat fruitless mission nonetheless
    But he was never in the IRA?


  • #103
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    Aye....but you've not sworn an oath of silence/service and have the tgreat of death hanging over if you break it


    Not in 1921 would the IRA give up tom Barry....they are hardly going to change their rules now??



    And you'll have plenty in the country Whatll encourage you in your somewhat fruitless mission nonetheless

    They have no problem asking people to tout on dissidents nowadays.

    But when it comes to the provos they can't.

    Makes no sense.


  • #104
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,517 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    marienbad wrote: »
    And there you have it in a nutshell Francie , until they aspire to represent all of us , including those who don't vote for them they will always remain a niche party

    Any party in opposition is a niche party, the parties in our consensus government right now are niche parties, representing a rainbow of political ideologies.
    None of them can claim to 'represent' us all, and I would think it overstates to claim otherwise.


  • #105
    marienbad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Any party in opposition is a niche party, the parties in our consensus government right now are niche parties, representing a rainbow of political ideologies.
    None of them can claim to 'represent' us all, and I would think it overstates to claim otherwise.

    That is just one snapshot of the State today after one election though Francie , the other main parties always aspire to be in government , it is their raison d'etre , you could argue it is too much so .

    I agree none can represent us all , I was overstating a bit there , but to represent or give the illusion of representing as much of the electorate as is required to become the government is the goal .

    SF by always pandering to their own audience will always preclude achieving that goal .


  • #106
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,517 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    His dad was murdered by those cowardly dirt bags. I don't blame him confronting the evil that is Gerry Adams and Sinn Fein.

    Remember you are the guy who was advocating hanging a range of people some of whom who have had nothing proven against them.
    What would you tell their children?


  • #107
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,517 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    marienbad wrote: »
    That is just one snapshot of the State today after one election though Francie , the other main parties always aspire to be in government , it is their raison d'etre , you could argue it is too much so .

    I agree none can represent us all , I was overstating a bit there , but to represent or give the illusion of representing as much of the electorate as is required to become the government is the goal .

    SF by always pandering to their own audience will always preclude achieving that goal .

    Are you now 'understating' SF's upward trajectory?
    FF voted with them yesterday on their motion.
    They share power in NI.


  • #108
    marienbad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Are you now 'understating' SF's upward trajectory?
    FF voted with them yesterday on their motion.
    They share power in NI.

    Yeah but most people in the ROI don't really care about NI . I don't see an upward trajectory in the SF vote that is in any way compelling .

    We are still in the grips of the longest and deepest recession in the history of the country , SF's main rivals Labour and FF imploded . FG committed hara-kiri with their arrogance .

    Every day reveals a new crisis for the lower/middle class - this week it is the survival of defined benefit pension schemes , who know what next week will bring .

    The ground couldn't be more fertile for SF , yet above a certain level the electorate have shown they will vote for anyone but SF ! Why is that ?

    DO you realize FF could be back in power after the next election , and how sickening that is to a lot of people ?


  • #109
    A Little Pony
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    A Little Pony wrote: »
    His dad was murdered by those cowardly dirt bags. I don't blame him confronting the evil that is Gerry Adams and Sinn Fein.

    Remember you are the guy who was advocating hanging a range of people some of whom who have had nothing proven against them.
    What would you tell their children?
    So Michael Stone didn't murder people then? Martin Mcguinness didn't plan operations to murder people? It is all just in peoples minds then? That is the problem with Sinn Fein members, absolutely delusional.


  • #110
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,517 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    marienbad wrote: »
    Yeah but most people in the ROI don't really care about NI . I don't see an upward trajectory in the SF vote that is in any way compelling .

    We are still in the grips of the longest and deepest recession in the history of the country , SF's main rivals Labour and FF imploded . FG committed hara-kiri with their arrogance .
    Another poster who speaks for 'most' people.
    Every day reveals a new crisis for the lower/middle class - this week it is the survival of defined benefit pension schemes , who know what next week will bring .

    The ground couldn't be more fertile for SF , yet above a certain level the electorate have shown they will vote for anyone but SF ! Why is that ?

    DO you realize FF could be back in power after the next election , and how sickening that is to a lot of people ?

    And who has done a deal with them to allow a government to function?


  • #111
    marienbad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Another poster who speaks for 'most' people.


    And who has done a deal with them to allow a government to function?

    Not claiming to speak for most based on nothing Francie - just count up the vote tally - tells you all you need to know .

    I don't understand the relevance of your 2nd point .


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  • #112
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,517 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    So Michael Stone didn't murder people then? Martin Mcguinness didn't plan operations to murder people? It is all just in peoples minds then? That is the problem with Sinn Fein members, absolutely delusional.

    They might have. But Adams didn't, you are hanging him because you just don't like him.
    How many of the British army who killed innocents will you be hanging?


  • #113
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,517 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    marienbad wrote: »
    Not claiming to speak for most based on nothing Francie - just count up the vote tally - tells you all you need to know .

    I don't understand the relevance of your 2nd point .

    A tally that is increasing in a country that has only ever allowed two parties swop power. Two parties that devour coalition parties and spit them out. But that is changing.

    FG have no problems doing business with FF, they have agreed not to bring down the gov. FF are back in power.


  • #114
    ForstalDave
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 612 ✭✭✭ForstalDave


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    A Little Pony wrote: »
    So Michael Stone didn't murder people then? Martin Mcguinness didn't plan operations to murder people? It is all just in peoples minds then? That is the problem with Sinn Fein members, absolutely delusional.

    They might have. But Adams didn't, you are hanging him because you just don't like him.
    How many of the British army who killed innocents will you be hanging?

    Every single one, anyone involved in the murder of innocent people should be held accountable doesn't matter whether they are British army IRA or whatever


  • #115
    marienbad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    A tally that is increasing in a country that has only ever allowed two parties swop power. Two parties that devour coalition parties and spit them out. But that is changing.

    FG have no problems doing business with FF, they have agreed not to bring down the gov. FF are back in power.

    I don't know what point you are trying to make , from your point of view you don't really care about FF/FG , the issue I am asking you is why in such an advantageous climate SF aren't reaping the benefits at the ballot box .


  • #116
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,517 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    marienbad wrote: »
    I don't know what point you are trying to make , from your point of view you don't really care about FF/FG , the issue I am asking you is why in such an advantageous climate SF aren't reaping the benefits at the ballot box .

    Change will come slowly in what is basically a two party state. The important thing to note is that their share of the vote is falling election after election.

    When you have somebody wanting to 'hang' politicians you can see the power of constant negativity. That is why Enda does it every time he is put under pressure in the Dail BTW no other reason, Michael too.


  • #117
    marienbad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Change will come slowly in what is basically a two party state. The important thing to note is that their share of the vote is falling election after election.

    When you have somebody wanting to 'hang' politicians you can see the power of constant negativity. That is why Enda does it every time he is put under pressure in the Dail BTW no other reason, Michael too.

    Come on Francie , when the conditions are right change comes shockingly fast .

    SF since 2008 have had the greatest opportunity offered to any one party to progress in a major way . Why has that not happened and at this stage is probably unlikely to happen ?


  • #118
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,517 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    marienbad wrote: »
    Come on Francie , when the conditions are right change comes shockingly fast .

    SF since 2008 have had the greatest opportunity offered to any one party to progress in a major way . Why has that not happened and at this stage is probably unlikely to happen ?

    Conditioning is the word.

    Ends knows the effect of this constant negative press. Don't cod yourself that it will stop when Adams retires. Did you see the furore of indignation when a young (she wasn't even born until after the GFA) Louth deputy raised her head above the parapet?

    They are chipping away though and each pointless assault, which achieves nothing for victims or 'justice', makes the Irish people more aware of what is going on. I measure that in how quickly each one dies a death. Remember Maria Cahill, how much does Enda care now about that case?


  • #119
    marienbad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Conditioning is the word.

    Ends knows the effect of this constant negative press. Don't cod yourself that it will stop when Adams retires. Did you see the furore of indignation when a young (she wasn't even born until after the GFA) Louth deputy raised her head above the parapet?

    They are chipping away though and each pointless assault, which achieves nothing for victims or 'justice', makes the Irish people more aware of what is going on. I measure that in how quickly each one dies a death. Remember Maria Cahill, how much does Enda care now about that case?

    It is not conditioning , it is politics . Do you honestly believe the mudslinging only applies to SF . It has always been so . Get used to it . Weren't SF accused at one time of the organised tearing down of SDLP posters

    I remember as a kid 77 being painted on O'Connell Street in Limerick at every election . And the most vile rumors being put about about Des O'Malley etc . It has always been so


  • #120
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,517 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    marienbad wrote: »
    It is not conditioning , it is politics . Do you honestly believe the mudslinging only applies to SF . It has always been so . Get used to it . Weren't SF accused at one time of the organised tearing down of SDLP posters

    I remember as a kid 77 being painted on O'Connell Street in Limerick at every election . And the most vile rumors being put about about Des O'Malley etc . It has always been so

    No doubt, SF play the political game. Not sure what your point is.

    If you could show me a party that has the media inventing stuff and senior politicians making allegations they never have proof for (and their sheep swallow it and uniquely think it acceptable) then that would be a fair comparison.

    Look at what Jude Collins had to say about why these stories don't have the same traction in NI. Remember that Michael and Enda won't be around much longer either.

    Do you think it right that politicians should be making allegations they can't substantiate? What is your redline on this?


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  • #121
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    marienbad wrote: »
    Come on Francie , when the conditions are right change comes shockingly fast .

    SF since 2008 have had the greatest opportunity offered to any one party to progress in a major way . Why has that not happened and at this stage is probably unlikely to happen ?



    In 2008 SF had 4 ts I think it was??

    As of now SF had 23 tds.....no other party in ireland has had >5 fold increase in its tds since then???


    Is this not substantial progress????... or would you prefer them to become another party of the rich and abandon it's roots to appease you for votes???


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