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Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

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    #302
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,110 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    midnight city wrote: »
    I don't drink so id be happy enough if min pricing meant more tax take for the state coffers

    Except tax revenue might fall, as purchases fall.


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    #303
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,906 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    I think EU law will have something to say about this. It is essentially price fixing.

    If they said that all goods would be hit with a tax then thats a different story. But I can't see how the EU will allow the government to force anybody to sell a product at a price irregardless of the cost.

    The reason that cigs cost so much is that a massive amount of it is tax and duty. Now if that is the way they want to go then I can see a case for that (societal cost etc) but how can you stop competition?

    It would have to impact all competitors equally (based on the same same product group) but this option clearly adversely effects the lower priced products with little or no effect on the premium brands

    Is there another example of a good with a minimum price set by the government?

    The Scottish challenge all the way to the European Courts was defeated, and MUP will be introduced in Scotland by ruling of the Scottish courts.

    After an earlier ruling by the court of session, the issue was referred to the European court of justice (ECJ), which ruled last December that the policy could be justified on health grounds under EU law only if it was more proportionate and effective than using general taxation. However, the ECJ referred the final decision back to the Scottish courts.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/oct/21/scottish-court-rejects-appeal-against-minimum-alcohol-pricing

    It's a shoo in here too so.


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    #304
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,739 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Ill likely go back to home brewing my own wine and beer.

    I assume veg without meat and the other nany staters will be along soon to try and make that illegal too.


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    #305
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Poor people and yobs must be protected from cheap alcohol, but simply applying a percentage tax would make my craft beer and decent wine dearer too, and we can't have that, as I don't have a drink problem, I have an appreciation for the finer things, unlike those drunken yobs and poor people.

    Pass the champagne.


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    #306
    MeatTwoVeg
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 861 ✭✭✭MeatTwoVeg


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Ill likely go back to home brewing my own wine and beer.

    I assume veg without meat and the other nany staters will be along soon to try and make that illegal too.

    I'd be pretty concerned if I had such a desperate need to get my hands on cheap alcohol.


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    #307
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    MeatTwoVeg wrote: »
    I'd be pretty concerned if I had such a desperate need to get my hands on cheap alcohol.

    Some of us love drinking and we should be able to do so without being robbed blind.


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    #308
    bear1
    Registered Users Posts: 12,812 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    MeatTwoVeg wrote: »
    I'd be pretty concerned if I had such a desperate need to get my hands on cheap alcohol.

    You have a choice of buying a can of Heineken for 2e or for 1e.
    Which would you buy?


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    #309
    MeatTwoVeg
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 861 ✭✭✭MeatTwoVeg


    Philip Clean Ruler wrote: »
    Some of us love drinking and we should be able to do so without being robbed blind.

    I love drinking. I enjoy fine wines, craft ales and good quality cocktails.

    Brewing up moonshine in your home or buying slabs of cheap muck isn't about loving drinking, it's indicative of a serious problem, one that costs our society money.

    Time to start making an increased contribution lads.


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    #310
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,906 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Booze will be paid for in the off licence no matter what. Many like to drink in their own homes and not suffer the noise, music and general sweaty crowdedness of the pub. Unless you're under 35 or so.......yikes, what have I just said! Sorry to over 35s who love that kind of thing!

    There will be little reduction in consumption though IMV.

    Should be interesting to see how Scotland gets on with it aswell.


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    #311
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    MeatTwoVeg wrote: »
    I love drinking. I enjoy fine wines, craft ales and good quality cocktails.

    Brewing up moonshine in your home or buying slabs of cheap muck isn't about loving drinking, it's indicative of a serious problem, one that costs our society money.

    Time to start making an increased contribution lads.

    I live in Germany, so that's a negatory on the mulah, buddy.
    And I am proud to say that during the 10 years I smoked I bought all my tobacco in Germany, rip off prices must be circumvented on general principle.
    And if you enjoy a nice bottle of €50 plonk up your arse that's splendid, but your business. What others drink is also none of yours.


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    #312
    MeatTwoVeg
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 861 ✭✭✭MeatTwoVeg


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    I live in Germany, so that's a negatory on the mulah, buddy.
    And I am proud that during the 10 years I smoked I bought all my tobacco in Germany, rip off prices must be circumvented on general principle.
    It's a wonder you bother posting on a topic which doesn't affect you.


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    #313
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,739 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    MeatTwoVeg wrote: »
    I love drinking. I enjoy fine wines, craft ales and good quality cocktails.

    Brewing up moonshine in your home or buying slabs of cheap muck isn't about loving drinking, it's indicative of a serious problem, one that costs our society money.

    Time to start making an increased contribution lads.
    MeatTwoVeg wrote: »
    I'd be pretty concerned if I had such a desperate need to get my hands on cheap alcohol.

    I knew the morality police would be along. The only fun allowed has to be signed, sealed, approved and observed by a qualified nimby nanny stater.

    I enjoy drinking too, im able to make very good wine and beer in my home for a sliver of the price being charged at in either and off license or especially pubs. Id much rather do that than pay through the nose for booze at multiples of 2-3 times what people across the continent pay. Its due to simple convenience i choose not too brew my own right now and instead purchase it in a shop.

    Also Who are you to judge me or anyone else and their drinking habits in the safety of their own homes where they aren't causing any issues to society?


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    #314
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    You may as well piss into an empty can rather than buying cheap booze anyway.


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    #315
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    MeatTwoVeg wrote: »
    It's a wonder you bother posting on a topic which doesn't affect you.

    I regale my Germans friends with tales of Ireland (the compo culture, minimum pricing, sulky races on the open road, garda inactivity on same, old ladies being arrested for no TV license, Irish politics), what can I say, I do feel affected by stupidity and laziness and minimum pricing fits right in.


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    #316
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    You may as well piss into an empty can rather than buying cheap booze anyway.

    If that's what floats your boat, knock yourself out. And Perlenbacher is ten times better than the piss most people in Ireland drink anyway, like Budweiser and Heineken. That stuff is chemical waste.


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    #317
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    If that's what floats your boat, knock yourself out. And Perlenbacher is ten times better than the piss most people in Ireland drink anyway, like Budweiser and Heineken. That stuff is chemical waste.

    I was referring to Bud/Heineken and other cheap piss.


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    #318
    CalamariFritti
    Registered Users Posts: 5,449 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    Isn't it convenient that the solution they came up with also raises taxes and works into the hands of lobbyists? I mean at least when it all doesn't work out with the addressing of the drink problem, as it most certainly won't, there's still more tax money to buy votes or bump up some salaries with and someone owes you a favour, too.

    Like an episode out of Yes, Minister. Bit like the motor tax reform, the tobacco prices, the rent allowance saga or the water fiasco. I'm sure there is more...


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    #319
    rafatoni
    Registered Users Posts: 469 ✭✭rafatoni


    MeatTwoVeg wrote: »
    Most moderate drinkers who enjoy the taste of beer or wine won't even notice this measure. They're not going to be buying the slabs of cheap muck anyway or horrible plonk.


    It's the people drinking lots of cheap alcohol that'll be hit.
    Its coming up to christmas people get in slabs of heineken and guiness so they can maybe offer family, friends that call around a drink. Its nice, its hospitable. Why should they suffer?

    Not everyone drinks double dip chocolate pale ale at 6 eur a bottle.

    This is the Vinters. Nothing to do with health.


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    #320
    Backstreet Moyes
    Registered Users Posts: 8,726 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    Alcoholics will get there drink no matter how much it costs which I am sure will include robberies.

    This does two things.

    Increase the likelihood of innocent people bring robbed and assaulted.
    Punishes someone who likes to have a few cans by the fire after a long weeks work.


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    #321
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,414 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    rafatoni wrote: »
    Its coming up to christmas people get in slabs of heineken and guiness so they can maybe offer family, friends that call around a drink. Its nice, its hospitable. Why should they suffer?

    Not everyone drinks double dip chocolate pale ale at 6 eur a bottle.

    This is the Vinters. Nothing to do with health.

    Correct, everyone who appreciates a drop of beer doesn't always want to buy expensive stuff. A nice cool supermarket pilsner can hit the spot on a Summers day as well or better than a specialty beer. It's called choice and a fair marketplace for the consumer which MUP will deny us.


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    #322
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,906 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Pay rises for everyone to compensate for this I say!


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    #323
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,564 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Nuts102 wrote: »
    Alcoholics will get there drink no matter how much it costs which I am sure will include robberies.

    This does two things.

    Increase the likelihood of innocent people bring robbed and assaulted.
    Punishes someone who likes to have a few cans by the fire after a long weeks work.

    What's with the dramatics?

    Nobody's going to "suffer".


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    #324
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    I was referring to Bud/Heineken and other cheap piss.

    The problem is, that piss ain't cheap. Even Lidl and Aldi beer is miles better.


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    #325
    ...And Justice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭...And Justice


    When are these bunch of nannies enacting this godforsaken búll shíte? It will probably work as good as closing the off license at 10pm. Sure that curbed the "drinking". Looks like plan B by the vintners, when will they ever learn? I Will not pay €5 for a pint or a fcuking can. Looks like we are headed for a society of pioneers, all pubs close vintners lose AGAIN!

    I'll go north and buy booze, rather than pay for that bôllocks.


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    #326
    MeatTwoVeg
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 861 ✭✭✭MeatTwoVeg


    Allinall wrote: »
    What's with the dramatics?

    Nobody's going to "suffer".

    Apparently paying €2 for a can equates to suffering for generation Snowflake.

    God help us if there's a war.


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    #327
    Nollog
    Registered Users Posts: 5,410 ✭✭✭Nollog


    MeatTwoVeg wrote: »
    Apparently paying €2 for a can equates to suffering for generation Snowflake.

    God help us if there's a war.

    They'll be less well off, which is the same as suffering.

    It's not that they're being suffocated, it's that they are in a position which is worse than the day before the law comes into effect.


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    #328
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,564 ✭✭✭Allinall


    /\/ollog wrote: »
    They'll be less well off, which is the same as suffering.

    It's not that they're being suffocated, it's that they are in a position which is worse than the day before the law comes into effect.

    By their own free choice.


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    #329
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,739 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Allinall wrote: »
    By their own free choice.

    Tell that to children who go hungry due to alcoholic parents spending whatever is left for food on the price increase.

    If you claim that wont happen your either ignorant or have your own bias and agenda on this


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    #330
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,564 ✭✭✭Allinall


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Tell that to children who go hungry due to alcoholic parents spending whatever is left for food on the price increase.

    If you claim that wont happen your either ignorant or have your own bias and agenda on this

    Seeing as you already know my agenda I won't waste any time explaining my position.


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    #331
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    MeatTwoVeg wrote: »
    Apparently paying €2 for a can equates to suffering for generation Snowflake.

    God help us if there's a war.

    Generation snowflake??? So alcoholism is a new phenomenon then? If your chronic alcoholic had €10 to spend and spent, say, €4 on four cans and the rest on food, will he/she cut back on his/her drinking to spend the same amount on food under the MUP structure?


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