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How do you define someone who is Irish? (multiple choice poll)

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Comments

  • #272
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Avatar MIA wrote: »
    He has some times to Fiji of course. But they are not mutually exclusive.

    BTW, if you get your DNA checked, ZERO will have origins in Ireland, but will be traced all over the globe.
    Avatar MIA wrote: »
    I did.

    That was your answer??? :confused:

    Surely you can do better than just dodge the question ......... I'll give you one more chance, if you'd like?


  • #273
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,748 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    That was your answer??? :confused:

    Surely you can do better than just dodge the question ......... I'll give you one more chance, if you'd like?

    No, I'm happy with that answer. Which part of 'not mutually exclusively' is confusing you.


  • #274
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Grayson wrote: »
    Ethnically/genetically he is half irish and half fijian.

    However is anyone 100% pure Irish on a genetic level? We all have "mixed blood" as it were.

    I'm sure if we did genetic tests on anyone in this country we'd find non irish genes.

    And lets face it, it's a mistake to go down a route of genetic "purity".

    Nationality is used to describe what country or nation you belong to. In that sense he isn't half irish/half fijian. He's both Irish and Fijian (assuming he had fijian nationality. If not he's just Irish).

    I never mentioned "purity" or "pure Irish" ........... but with some people, such as Sean, their origins are so contrasting that it would be illogical and insulting to ignore them.

    I would class him as a part Irish/Fijian gentleman who has more affinity to his Irish roots for obvious reasons ......... but I would not be so disrespectful as to ignore his Fijian origins as if they were somehow a shameful aspect of his genetic make-up.


  • #275
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Avatar MIA wrote: »
    Specific examples such Seán were highlight to point out how ridiculous your definitions of Irish were.

    Yet it ended up confirming how valid my definitions of Irish were .........


  • #276
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Avatar MIA wrote: »
    No, I'm happy with that answer. Which part of 'not mutually exclusively' is confusing you.

    Well he can't be "100%" Irish whilst also being part Fijian ......... that's basic maths! :D


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  • #277
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,748 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    Yet it ended up confirming how valid my definitions of Irish were .........

    It did? I think I missed that.
    MadDog76 wrote: »
    Well he can't be "100%" Irish whilst also being part Fijian ......... that's basic maths! :D

    If you are talking about DNA then nobody is 100% Irish, which is ridiculous.


  • #278
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    if your Mother is from France and your Father is Irish then guess what ....... that's right!

    If one of my parents was from France it doesn't matter. I'm Irish and would be no less or more Irish than you or anyone else. Whether you or anyone else considered me 'half' Irish is neither here nor there.

    Out of interest how Irish is a child adopted from abroad but raised by two Irish parents? Are they half Irish?
    MadDog76 wrote: »
    Yet it ended up confirming how valid my definitions of Irish were .........

    You don't get to define anything. That's the job of Lexicographers.


  • #279
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,408 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    I never mentioned "purity" or "pure Irish" ........... but with some people, such as Sean, their origins are so contrasting that it would be illogical and insulting to ignore them.

    I would class him as a part Irish/Fijian gentleman who has more affinity to his Irish roots for obvious reasons ......... but I would not be so disrespectful as to ignore his Fijian origins as if they were somehow a shameful aspect of his genetic make-up.

    why use the words part irish and part fijian rather than both? Just wondering.

    I'd classify someone as both. Legally that's the kind of language that's used. I'd be described as someone with dual nationality or dual citizenship. Not someone who's half. The only time half is used is to describe genetic heritage or ancestry.

    for example if one of my parents was German I could be described as Irish (or dual irish/german) with Irish/German ancestry.


  • #280
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    Out of interest how Irish is a child adopted from abroad but raised by two Irish parents? Are they half Irish? Not Irish at all?

    Can one of the ethno-nationalists answer the question above please.


  • #281
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Avatar MIA wrote: »
    It did? I think I missed that.

    Well the thread is moving fast. :D

    Avatar MIA wrote: »
    If you are talking about DNA then nobody is 100% Irish, which is ridiculous.

    I was referring to his Mother ......... is she still allowed to consider herself Fijian?


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  • #282
    Skommando
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 618 ✭✭✭Skommando


    Lia_lia wrote: »
    I don't like these threads. I always get told I'm "not Irish".

    I was born in England to an English Father and Irish Mother. Lived in a few different countries and moved here when I was in primary school. I've an Irish first and second name, have an Irish passport, Irish accent, work and live in Ireland...does this not make me Irish.


    I just don't want to be English wahhh

    You're completely Irish, and anyone who says you're not is simply an arse hole, and an embarrassment to other Irish people.


  • #283
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    Can one of the ethno-nationalists answer the question above please.

    If they've an Irish passport their Irish.... This part/not properly Irish argument is illogical when faced with this rather simple fact


  • #284
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,748 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    MadDog76 wrote: »


    I was referring to his Mother ......... is she still allowed to consider herself Fijian?

    His mother? Of course.

    Now, you've still not clarified. What genetic make up makes one Irish?


  • #285
    indioblack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,960 ✭✭✭indioblack


    NoFreeGaffs wrote: »
    The native Irish people.

    That's alright then - the natives are friendly.


  • #286
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    If one of my parents was from France it doesn't matter. I'm Irish and would be no less or more Irish than you or anyone else. Whether you or anyone else considered me 'half' Irish is neither here nor there.

    I would consider you half Irish/French ........... which should only be a problem for you if you had a problem with your French heritage ........ but that would be your own personal issue and as such would have no bearing on the fact that you are half Irish/French.

    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    Out of interest how Irish is a child adopted from abroad but raised by two Irish parents? Are they half Irish?

    The child would be *whatever* being raised in Ireland by Irish parents. It would be up to them to decide if they wanted to incorporate his/her original culture (alongside the Irish culture) into his/her everyday life .......... and it would be up to him/her to decide if he/she wanted to pursue that culture as an adult.
    Either way, the facts of his/her origins cannot be altered regardless.
    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    You don't get to define anything.

    I get to have an opinion, just like you. :)


  • #287
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Grayson wrote: »
    why use the words part irish and part fijian rather than both? Just wondering.

    I'd classify someone as both. Legally that's the kind of language that's used. I'd be described as someone with dual nationality or dual citizenship. Not someone who's half. The only time half is used is to describe genetic heritage or ancestry.

    for example if one of my parents was German I could be described as Irish (or dual irish/german) with Irish/German ancestry.

    The meaning of the "/" in Irish/German would be "part" ......... in fact, it usually means "half".


  • #288
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    I would consider you half Irish/French

    And I wouldn't give a **** what you thought and neither would the state.
    The child would be *whatever* being raised in Ireland by Irish parents.

    So even if the child was adopted, from say Scotland, at a couple of months and then raised in Ireland by Irish parents with Irish citizenship you'd still consider that child Scottish for his entire life even if he didn't consider himself Scottish? That's weird.
    I get to have an opinion, just like you. :)

    Absolutely but I didn't argue against that. I explained to you that you don't get to decide or define how Irish a person is.


  • #289
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    For me, in order for somebody to be truly Irish then they must be born and raised in Ireland to two Irish parents who were also born and raised in Ireland and have Irish Grandparents etc. ........ your poll doesn't include that option fully.
    Avatar MIA wrote: »
    His mother? Of course.

    Now, you've still not clarified. What genetic make up makes one Irish?

    See above.


  • #290
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    For me, in order for somebody to be truly Irish then they must be born and raised in Ireland to two Irish parents who were also born and raised in Ireland and have Irish Grandparents etc.

    So if the great Grandparents of your Irish qualified person moved here from Kenya they'd be Irish but if one of their grandparents was from France they'd not be truly Irish?

    You do realise how absolutely bat-shit mental that is don't you?


  • #291
    IvyTheTerrible
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭IvyTheTerrible


    My kids were born in France but are Irish citizens too. I don't consider them half anything. They are French, and they are Irish. Simple as that.


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  • #292
    indioblack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,960 ✭✭✭indioblack


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    Can one of the ethno-nationalists answer the question above please.
    The example I gave earlier about my brother is close to your description.
    He was raised in Ireland, his mother was Irish - she remained in England and he was raised by an aunt. He lived and worked the remainder of his life in Cork - paid all his dues to the republic. A few years before he died he wanted to vote in an election and someone saw on his birth cert that he was born in England and was therefore English. He didn't see it that way. All the things he'd done in his life in Ireland had been done, and accepted, as the actions of an Irish person. As far as he was concerned, that was his nationality. When he died I buried him in the only home town he'd known - rather than bringing him back here and burying him where he was born.
    It angered him that people thought he didn't belong after a lifetime living there.


  • #293
    NoFreeGaffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 198 ✭✭NoFreeGaffs


    IvyTheTerrible wrote: »
    My kids were born in France but are Irish citizens too. I don't consider them half anything. They are French, and they are Irish. Simple as that.

    They are 50% French and 50% Irish. So they are half Irish and half French.


  • #294
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    NoFreeGaffs wrote: »
    They are 50% French and 50% Irish. So they are half Irish and half French.

    Says who? Can you direct me to some sort of document that outlines how people's nationality is decided? Or are you, and others, simply pulling all this out of your bum-bums?


  • #295
    IvyTheTerrible
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭IvyTheTerrible


    NoFreeGaffs wrote: »
    They are 50% French and 50% Irish. So they are half Irish and half French.

    I'm not talking about genetics or blood or whatever though. They are full Irish citizens and full French citizens.


  • #296
    NoFreeGaffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 198 ✭✭NoFreeGaffs


    IvyTheTerrible wrote: »
    I'm not talking about genetics or blood or whatever though. They are full Irish citizens and full French citizens.

    Citizenship is just a piece of paper, albeit, an important piece of paper. Citizenship laws can change with a stroke of a ballpoint. Ethnicity cannot.

    They're half Irish and half French. If Le Pen gets elected and bans dual citizenship, would that mean that they're not Irish at all?


  • #297
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    And I wouldn't give a **** what you thought and neither would the state.

    Then why ask?
    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    So even if the child was adopted, from say Scotland, at a couple of months and then raised in Ireland by Irish parents with Irish citizenship you'd still consider that child Scottish for his entire life even if he didn't consider himself Scottish? That's weird.

    It's up to the Adoptive Parents as to what way they choose to deal with their child's origins ......... in the case of a (presumably white) child from Scotland then the Parents have the option of not even revealing to the child that she/he is even adopted ....... if the child's origins are Chinese, for example, then that option is no longer available.
    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    Absolutely but I didn't argue against that. I explained to you that you don't get to decide or define how Irish a person is.

    *I get say "I personally define xyz as Irish ......."

    *See thread title .......


  • #298
    IvyTheTerrible
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭IvyTheTerrible


    NoFreeGaffs wrote: »
    Citizenship is just a piece of paper, albeit, an important piece of paper. Citizenship laws can change with a stroke of a ballpoint. Ethnicity cannot.

    They're half Irish and half French. If Le Pen gets elected and bans dual citizenship, would that mean that they're not Irish at all?
    Thankfully LePen will never have the power to remove the citizenship of another country from someone.


  • #299
    NoFreeGaffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 198 ✭✭NoFreeGaffs


    IvyTheTerrible wrote: »
    Thankfully LePen will never have the power to remove the citizenship of another country from someone.

    She can ban dual citizenship.


  • #300
    me_right_one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,041 ✭✭✭me_right_one


    Why are people so scared about all this? Whats the big deal if someone is half French and half Irish? Its only a description, its not a measure of "purity" as someone put it. Ironically, it seems to be those who are defending the O'Halpíns who are being the most racist here.


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  • #301
    IvyTheTerrible
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭IvyTheTerrible


    NoFreeGaffs wrote: »
    She can ban dual citizenship.

    She could perhaps ban it in the future, but to ban it retroactively she have to remove French nationality and I don't think she would have the power to do that if the person isn't a criminal.
    Or if she did, France will have turned into a dictatorship and I'd happily leave.


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