"Coding" in schools...

jimgoose · 24-11-2016 10:57AM #1

The latest stroke of genius from our Imperious Leaders appears to be teaching Computer Science for the Leaving Cert:

http://www.thejournal.ie/coding-irish-curriculum-3099021-Nov2016/

I think, rather than jumping on this latest "cool" bandwagon, diverting yet more attention and resources from the teaching of proper core knowledge and in the process giving teachers even more to complain about, it would be rather more in their line to try to reform the current ridiculous exam-passing machine approach to secondary education, and maybe add a US-style driver's education module to try to prevent youngsters from killing themselves be the dozen. I also resent the notion of our school curricula being influenced, even in small part, by some Segway-riding Californian twit who's just invented YASPL*.

What say ye?

* Yet Another Stupid Programming Language

Mickeroo · 24-11-2016 11:03AM

If it gets implemented it would probably be the most useful, worthwhile subject in the entire curriculum. Best idea they've had in ages.

gifted · 24-11-2016 11:05AM

I thought this was about the codes that pupils use...like LOB...look out boys

GLaDOS · 24-11-2016 11:06AM

Yeah I can't see the harm in it. I definitely would have taken it up in school if I had the chance.

Blatter · 24-11-2016 11:09AM

It'd make far more sense and be far more useful than other popular subjects that are currently in the curriculum like History and Geography. Not to say that those subjects don't have their merits, but a basic computer science subject would have way more relevancy in the real world, particularly from a jobs perspective.

Pete Moss · 24-11-2016 11:09AM

Coding/Computer Science is more deserving to be part of a school's curriculum in this age than Religion, IMO.

fizzypish · 24-11-2016 11:13AM

Not a bad idea. I think pseudo code instead of specific language would be best. Also, teach ECDL properly. MS office is the industry standard (from my working experience). If you want to be broad basic DOS and UNIX navigation. Defiantly needs to be an optional subject though. Can't force people to learn this **** if they're not interested. If you want to be a sadist force them to do a report in LaTeX.

ahlookit · 24-11-2016 11:14AM

Two things

1 Where are the teachers going to come from? It will take years to teach the teachers

2 What are IT facilities like in schools these days? No use teaching theory, it has to be hands on. And for less well off students who don't have access to their own PC at home, will the schools allow them to tinker away at PCs after hours?

As an aside, I helped out at a coder dojo for a while - it was amazing to see how quickly young kids picked up on Scratch, and how they just "got" programming constructs straight away. I've no doubt given the right support structures it will allow some kids to thrive.

PS, will the Dept of Education claim ownership of code developed in schools when some 12 year old designs an app that makes a fortune ?

pumpkin4life · 24-11-2016 11:18AM

They'll destroy it. Turn it into the most boring pointless subject teaching some pointless out of date language which will murder it for some of the lads which would have more of an aptitude for it.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 24-11-2016 11:19AM

jimgoose wrote: »

The latest stroke of genius from our Imperious Leaders appears to be teaching Computer Science for the Leaving Cert:

http://www.thejournal.ie/coding-irish-curriculum-3099021-Nov2016/

I think, rather than jumping on this latest "cool" bandwagon, diverting yet more attention and resources from the teaching of proper core knowledge and in the process giving teachers even more to complain about, it would be rather more in their line to try to reform the current ridiculous exam-passing machine approach to secondary education, and maybe add a US-style driver's education module to try to prevent youngsters from killing themselves be the dozen. I also resent the notion of our school curricula being influenced, even in small part, by some Segway-riding Californian twit who's just invented YASPL*.

What say ye?

* Yet Another Stupid Programming Language

This would be the problem skeptic me would have a probelm with: I don't trust them to put together a good, trouough and practical syallabus to turn the idea into someting worthwhile. Just something to get a grade in and points for entereing into college.

The idea will also live or die by how they go about recruiting and training the teacehrs.

fancy pigeon · 24-11-2016 11:21AM

pumpkin4life wrote: »

They'll destroy it. Turn it into the most boring pointless subject teaching some pointless out of date language which will murder it for some of the lads which would have more of an aptitude for it.

Teaching assembly/machine code and reports to be written with LaTeX

Goya · 24-11-2016 11:21AM

It's not an attempt to be "cool" (such a comment strikes me as not really understanding what coding is). It's extremely beneficial - and important too imo.

Giblet · 24-11-2016 11:21AM

They manage it in other countries, so it should be fine.
OP, you have some really misguided opinions about programming.
Computer Science is an essential skill in many fields, emerging or otherwise.
Teaching something like python to Leaving Cert students opens up a lot of fields in Science, Industry, Data, Analytics, Laboratories, Machine Learning, Application Programming, Statistics, Geomatics, Automation, Electronics, Agriculture, Engineering of any discipline. It would be foolish to think otherwise, you seem to harbor some resentment to the Silicon Valley side of things, which in the grand scheme of things, is an isolated bubble. Computer Science has been around before you or I were born, and now it's more relevant than ever.

Goya · 24-11-2016 11:25AM

Cynicism for the sake of it is cool and edgy.

pumpkin4life · 24-11-2016 11:26AM

fancy pigeon wrote: »

Teaching assembly/machine code and reports to be written with LaTeX

If you're teaching lads something as fùcking clunky as VB then you're going to have a mass exodus of potential coders. That's what I'd be worried about.

Some mc code might be good though.

jimgoose · 24-11-2016 11:30AM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

...The idea will also live or die by how they go about recruiting and training the teacehrs.

If, as I believe should also be done with ADIs, they recruit some grizzled old Kung Fu masters who think in C++ to do a couple of hours a week in schools, I could probably get behind it. We'll probably end up with over-stressed teachers trying to wrap their heads around the very basics, mangling it, and then teaching it. Badly.

Flimpson wrote: »

...such a comment strikes me as not really understanding what coding is...

<HARRUMPH> Right! :pac:

Giblet wrote: »

...OP, you have some really misguided opinions about programming...

Riiiight! :pac::pac::pac:

arctictree · 24-11-2016 11:31AM

My fear would be that big companies and consultants would hijack this and advice the Government incorrectly. A bit of HTML/JS and Python/Perl/PHP on a LAMP/WAMP stack is really all that is needed to get the kids interested.

pumpkin4life · 24-11-2016 11:34AM

Print Hello World!

14 year old pumpkin: wtf is this shìte

ahlookit · 24-11-2016 11:34AM

arctictree wrote: »

My fear would be that big companies and consultants would hijack this and advice the Government incorrectly. A bit of HTML/JS and Python/Perl/PHP on a LAMP/WAMP stack is really all that is needed to get the kids interested.

They would be able to produce a great powerpoint deck at the end of the syllabus though :P

24-11-2016 11:35AM

Where are they going to get the teachers.

Lots of people are put off a subject in a school that they later come to love as an adult, individual who become fluent Irish speakers as adult but who has a so so interest in it in school.

It could put people off as much as encourage them.

Skylinehead · 24-11-2016 11:37AM

I wonder where the teachers are going to come from. Nobody is going to move from a well paid job to having to deal with angsty teenagers for far less.

fizzypish · 24-11-2016 11:40AM

Skylinehead wrote: »

I wonder where the teachers are going to come from. Nobody is going to move from a well paid job to having to deal with angsty teenagers for far less.

Yup and in order to learn computer science you need computers. You also need more than one dis-organized computer class a week or nothing will sink in. Its definitely a good idea but I've no idea how to implement it properly.

Witchie · 24-11-2016 11:41AM

Back in 1991 I did a module of computer programming as part of leaving cert maths and it was horrendous. Put me off coding but did teach me a lot about computers and developed a love for them.

Fast forward to 2013 and I decided to retrain by doing a course called webactivate from the Digital Skills Academy. We were learning all sorts of aspects of the digital working environment - writing for the web, digital marketing and html and css. I was so scared starting the html stuff but found that the basic coding I had done 22 years earlier made it a little easier to understand and the subject I thought I would fail was the one that I got over 90% in. I now work at content creation and can go into the back end of sites and fix little problems making me a more employable person even with just a very basic knowledge of coding.

Sure that is just one case but I feel that in transition year in schools there is a great opportunity to run coder dojo type modules and even if people don't go into programming, they will have a better understanding of what is involved which can only help in working in the digital industry. I went on to study project management and having a grounding in some coding means that if I move to work in that area, I will understand how long it takes and the problems that arise.

I think it is a great idea but like others said, it needs to be done right as a fun taster in the earlier years and then maybe as a leaving cert subject for those who feel it is something they would like to do.

DredFX · 24-11-2016 11:42AM

Skylinehead wrote: »

I wonder where the teachers are going to come from. Nobody is going to move from a well paid job to having to deal with angsty teenagers for far less.

You'd be surprised.

Teach a class full of mopey teenagers who'll probably use the python and C# you teach them to make sex games.

Or,

A 50-hour job with no advancement opportunities, awful sprint management, and enough crunch-time periods for your wife to commit ten consecutive affairs and still feel lonely by the time you get home.

jimgoose · 24-11-2016 11:44AM

Skylinehead wrote: »

I wonder where the teachers are going to come from. Nobody is going to move from a well paid job to having to deal with angsty teenagers for far less.

Yeah. And that's just the other teachers in the break room! :pac:

Giblet · 24-11-2016 11:47AM

jimgoose wrote: »

Riiiight! :pac::pac::pac:

Having coding knowledge doesn't mean you have a valid opinion

jimgoose · 24-11-2016 11:48AM

Flimpson wrote: »

Cynicism for the sake of it is cool and edgy.

Labeling an opinion which differs from yours as "cynicism" despite knowing nothing about the holder of that opinion is quite cool and edgy as well, it would seem.

talking_walnut · 24-11-2016 11:49AM

Jesus you're all a bunch of negative nancys. Would you prefer they keep the curriculum stagnant? Sure what was wrong with doing an Intercert in P.T and Clerical Skills on a slide-rule? These computer things are only a phase anyway

jimgoose · 24-11-2016 11:49AM

Giblet wrote: »

Having coding knowledge...

That's one way of putting it, I suppose...

Giblet · 24-11-2016 11:50AM

jimgoose wrote: »

That's one way of putting it, I suppose...

What's the other way.

BackToWinnipeg · 24-11-2016 11:52AM

Silly idea.

As a software engineer for many years I noticed in university that many, many people just simply couldn't get their heads around it. The whole concept of OOP and how it relates to the real world just doesn't sit right with a lot of people.

If you want to become a developer, then go to college and learn when you are older and might have some interest in it. Most kids won't be able to grasp the concept and will end up hating it.

"Coding" in schools...

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