"Coding" in schools...

SimonTemplar

BrokenArrows wrote: »

string.Format("And the lord said onto thee, {0}", "Hello World");

try
{
    var Coat = CoatFactory.Create("Wool", "Linen");
}
catch(BlendedFabricsException ex)
{
    Log("Deuteronomy 22:9–11 commands, 'Do not wear clothes of wool and linen woven together.' ");
}

One of the funniest try...catch blocks I've seen

DredFX

BrokenArrows wrote: »

string.Format("And the lord said onto thee, {0}", "Hello World");

try
{
    var Coat = CoatFactory.Create("Wool", "Linen");
}
catch(BlendedFabricsException)
{
    Log("Deuteronomy 22:9–11 commands, 'Do not wear clothes of wool and linen woven together.' ");
}

Needs more exceptions, I think.

jester77

The education system is ridiculous in its current form.

90% of what is taught is useless to 90% of the students. The basic every day part of living should be the core of any education system. Every kid leaving school should have a foundation in politics, economics, hygiene, nutrition and so on. Most of the kids leaving school today don't know how to read a payslip and know nothing about politics or basic nutrition.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

The Backwards Man

The sum total of our tech education was a half hour of that game where you type the letters like space invaders.

Into college in the North and the first day the lecturer was going round the class asking what languages they had experience of. I didn't even know how to switch the fcuking thing on.

frozenfrozen

I will not macro my homework in vi
yy50p

Mrs OBumble

jimgoose wrote: »

maybe add a US-style driver's education module to try to prevent youngsters from killing themselves be the dozen.

So you're giving out about a computer science module which will take some resources, and suggesting a driving module which would take a lot more (cars cost a lot more than laptops).

Especially ironic given that technology is likely to vastly reduce the need for driving skills anyways.

Edups2.0

Damn these com pu ters. Taking over the world. Don't teach our children how to use them!! They're the divil.

jimgoose

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So you're giving out about a computer science module which will take some resources, and suggesting a driving module which would take a lot more (cars cost a lot more than laptops).

Especially ironic given that technology is likely to vastly reduce the need for driving skills anyways.

I'm talking about extending the existing ADI framework to have some interaction with the secondary education system, be it only for an hour or two of a Friday evening. Many instructors already have cars and are available for quite reasonable hourly rates, compared to the fabulous cost - monetary and otherwise - of gearing up schools and teachers for Coding lessons.

Wanderer78

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

many parents are too busy servicing their debts and keeping a house over the heads of many of these kids, preventing them from be able to show their kids the basic essentials in life, such is life under the free market system.

jimgoose

Edups2.0 wrote: »

Damn these com pu ters. Taking over the world. Don't teach our children how to use them!! They're the divil.

No-one is objecting to teaching children how to use computers in schools, to so object would be idiotic. My problem is with this sudden buck-leaping into teaching them "coding". These people are singularly unqualified to teach anyone anything of the sort, and will remain so.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Wanderer78

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

maybe you should spend some time around parents that are struggling to make ends meet and drag some politicians with you. theres a reason why in many households it is absolutely essential that at least two full time workers are required to run the household, this was not an essential before we went full heartedly into free market economic crapology. its time to ditch things such as neoliberalism and neoclassical theory. humans are not robots. its clearly obvious to me that these fundamentally flawed economic theories were designed by sociopaths possibly even psychopaths, such is the black and white nature of these theories. children are leaving our schools lacking in essential life skills and are struggling in many aspects of life because of this. we need to start addressing these issues within our educational system, and stop trying to create the perfect 'worker drone', and you d be wondering why theres a rise in complex social issues including mental health issues!

Arcade_Tryer

Mickeroo wrote: »

If it gets implemented it would probably be the most useful, worthwhile subject in the entire curriculum. Best idea they've had in ages.

You're confusing Coding with Carlsberg. Math and English ARE and ALWAYS will be the most important parts of primary and second level education.

Red Kev

My school got 12 Commodore 64's back in 1986. We were told it was the dawn of a new era and that "Computers" will be on the Leaving Cert by 1990. It was government policy at the time and they were working full steam ahead at it.

It only took them 30 years, but I'm glad to see it coming in eventually.

For all those involved in CoderDojo fair play to ye, ye're doing a great job. Keep it up.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Wanderer78

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

of course children left school without essential life skills beforehand but as i have tried to explain, and badly, many parents are now struggling to service their debts due to the rising cost of living largely due to free market economic policies in which are badly failing globally. there are many writing about this now. i would also highly recommend some research into 'neoclassical theory', as there is evidence of its use in many aspects of our society including our educational systems. i quite a disturbing theory.

we truly need to address these complex issues within our educational system, i have spoken to educators about these issues and they have confirmed a massive overhaul of our system is required to accommodate these changes in society. we are failing children by not doing so.

again id completely disagree with you on your synopsis of free market economics, theres plenty of people writing about the failings of these theories and systems. the persistence of our governments in the use of these theories and systems shows the disconnect that is existing and continues to be further exasperated, and is showing in events such as trump, brexit and the rise of the right. we ve been down this road before, and it didnt work out very well for us.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Wanderer78

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

its actually the fundamentals of it but fair enough

H3llR4iser

It's a good idea which is very difficult in execution. I've been a software Engineer, professionally, for the last 15 years; Personally, I started dabbling with computers and code as soon as I was able to read.

There are two main issues: as computer science is an insanely vast and overarching subject, inevitably, the kids will be at wildly differing starting levels than say with math and keeping their attention and engagement will be a though task. There's also another issue which could emerge involving "discrimination" and girls (but it could help solve it as well, in the long term); I'll get there in a moment.

I've been involved in CoderDojo in the past; Worthwhile initiative, but it has difficulties that sometimes have little or no solution: most kids find something as trivial as Scratch challenging; Others, the ones with a bit more exposure, find it simple, childish and boring. We mitigated the problem introducing Unity and "real" programming in C# for them, but the problem is that those kids also varied in age - some where as young as 10, some nearing their leaving cert. We could simply put them together as it's an informal environment, how would you do that in a school with its rigid "yearly" setting?

The strangest issue of them all involved the girls or more specifically, their parents. Over 2 years of CoderDojo with an average of 50 students coming in every week, there have probably been 5 or 6 girls attending in total. We tried everything to get more to participate, but it was often the parents going "ah yes, I've got a girl as well, she's 11...but I don't know, I thought this would be more something for boys...". Infuriatingly, this line of thought came mostly from mothers; with that in mind, it's not far fetched to anticipate parents of young girls being "unhappy" about "computers" being introduced in schools as it's for "boys" if their daughters happened to struggle in the subject due to low exposure / interest; The problem with women not picking careers in STEM starts from young, and it's never the little girls' fault.

Lastly, trying to teach kids about computers having them writing a piece of code that calculates "the area of a triangle" is recipe for failure. Yes, most of them have unrealistic expectations about creating the new Call of Duty after three lessons (they're kids, afterall!), but it's necessary to keep the effort relevant for them, and the only way to do so is for it to be around games and gaming - which goes against every fiber of the school system's ultra-rigid grain...

Pat Mustard

AfterHours: "So you want to get rid of teaching youngsters about computers"
Jimgoose" No, I don't. I'm saying teaching coding badly will be pointless."
AH: "You're so negative"
JG: "But I'm just pointing out that this is going to be a waste of resources"
AH: "What would you know about it?"
JG: "I've worked in the industry for years. I know what skills are needed"
AH: "Wow, so edgy"
JG: "..." *tears out hair"

Radiosonde

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I know quite a few teachers who would struggle to distinguish between igneous and sedimentary rock; is that an argument against teaching geography in schools?

_Jamie_

Blatter wrote: »

It'd make far more sense and be far more useful than other popular subjects that are currently in the curriculum like History and Geography. Not to say that those subjects don't have their merits, but a basic computer science subject would have way more relevancy in the real world, particularly from a jobs perspective.

I really hope education doesn't get to the point where everything is geared towards employment. That's not a rounded education.

Goya

Pat Mustard wrote: »

AfterHours: "So you want to get rid of teaching youngsters about computers"
Jimgoose" No, I don't. I'm saying teaching coding badly will be pointless."
AH: "You're so negative"
JG: "But I'm just pointing out that this is going to be a waste of resources"
AH: "What would you know about it?"
JG: "I've worked in the industry for years. I know what skills are needed"
AH: "Wow, so edgy"
JG: "..." *tears out hair"

Well it would have helped if the opening post was more detailed and supported instead of looking like every baseless generic "I'm complaining for the sake of it and everything the gubbermint does is wrong" post (including saying it's just trying to look "cool") ever. :pac:

Wanderer78

_Jamie_ wrote: »

I really hope education doesn't get to the point where everything is geared towards employment. That's not a rounded education.

and this is exactly where the problem is, our educational system is designed largely for future employment. this should not be the sole reason of our educational system. children require a multitude of skills to increase their chances of survival and development.

jimgoose

Flimpson wrote: »

Well it would have helped if the opening post was more detailed and supported instead of looking like every baseless generic "I'm complaining for the sake of it and everything the gubbermint does is wrong" post (including saying it's just trying to look "cool") ever. :pac:

I didn't say the Government were trying to look cool, what I said was they're probably jumping on this because some Zuck Markerburg type said it was cool. And everything the Government does is wrong, just like Yamahas burn oil and Emacs is bloatware!

I'd rather see coding being taught over religion, PE, CSPE, SPHE, and however other awful and ultimately useless subjects there are.

Wanderer78

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd rather see coding being taught over religion, PE, CSPE, SPHE, and however other awful and ultimately useless subjects there are.

almost completely disagree with you there, showing kids how to physically and mentally look after themselves is critical in having a healthy society

jimgoose

Pat Mustard wrote: »

...teaching coding badly will be pointless...

Oh, coding badly is far from pointless - it can be immensely therapeutic. I was taught to code badly by one particular professor, and I still do it now-and-then. 'Twas he who originally said that the determined programmer can write assembler code in any language. :pac:

DredFX

jimgoose wrote: »

Oh, coding badly is far from pointless - it can be immensely therapeutic.

Executing a program in Eclipse and seeing the reams of red text in the console output.

Cathartic.