Lions 2017 [MOD WARNING IN OP]

Teferi · 07-11-2016 01:29AM

English Lurker wrote: »

Furlong's big advantage in going for the squad is he's so much quicker than the alternatives. If you're after beating New Zealand, then you want 15 guys who'll keep up with their lads whenever they try to stretch the game. You might get away with 14 but you want 15. Cole, Nel, Lee... they'll struggle with that. Doubt think you'll see them up with the kick chase cutting down full-backs.

Long road yet but if he keeps starting and impressing he's got a big chance in my book.

Speaking of Irish front rows, I wonder if the odds just got cut on Best as a tour captain. Think a lot depends on the head to head between him and Hartley next spring (with all due respect to the compelling claims of Warburton and AWJ).

I'm fairly sure that Warren Gatland would name James Hook as Lions captain before he would name Best captain. Gats doesn't seem to like him for whatever reason.

English Lurker · 07-11-2016 01:38AM

Teferi wrote: »

I'm fairly sure that Warren Gatland would name James Hook as Lions captain before he would name Best captain. Gats doesn't seem to like him for whatever reason.

To be fair, you can't go wrong with Captain Hook.

Not sure Gatland does dislike him. 2013 was the end of the season where Rory Best forgot how to throw, I think any coach would have ignored him then. Maybe he was hard done by in 2009 - honestly can't remember that far back.

Could be you're right though. End of the day though, there's only two candidates who've captained a win against the All Blacks, and the world will piss itself laughing if he goes for Robshaw. If Best can get on the right end of a Grand Slam as well... well, we'll see.

AbusesToilets · 07-11-2016 02:26AM

It'll be Warburton again if he's fit, or AWJ. Probably AWJ now that I think about. I hope for Best's sake he can stay in form. He's been the best Hooker in the NH for ages. His collapse in form for the last tour was a real shame.

sydthebeat · 07-11-2016 08:51AM

Cathalthesmart wrote: »

Furlong has a serious chance, not many quality tight heads out of the 4 nations.

Dan Coles probably the best

WP Nel sums up the slim pickings
Lee is just typical welsh hyped player ( similar to those who said Webb/Bigger where actually good enough to start for the Lions. :D:D)

Plus Furlong is still very young in comparison to the others.

Samson lee is actually younger than tadhg.

pickarooney · 07-11-2016 12:18PM

Webb, Biggar and Lee are all good enough to start for the Lions in my book. They might not be my preferred starters but they're solid internationals and would not be out of place.

07-11-2016 12:43PM

As with the Lions tour - the player pool and those in form will look dramatically different in March / April when the real selection debate gets underway.

We're definitely looking like being healthy contributors especially as we'll be the only NH team to beat NZ in advance of the Lions (unless there is a miracle in Italy or Paris).

swiwi_ · 07-11-2016 05:25PM

I personally think Schmidt should avoid the lions. It takes a "special" Kiwi (Gatland) to be not only disliked outside his homeland but also inside it.

He appears to want to go down the same route as Woodward by antagonising as many kiwis as possible, burning all his bridges.

As Schmidt showed you can be a gentleman and still defeat NZ.

b.gud · 07-11-2016 05:55PM

Neil3030 wrote: »

If Gatland did speak to Henshaw when the latter was 19, that's just hilarious. How deep does that man's research into massive inside centres go? He probably had young Brewer on his radar too.

Gatland actually approached Henshaw when he was 18, by the time he was 19 he had been capped by Ireland.

He asked him if he had any Welsh links in 2013 when Henshaw was in 6n camp with Ireland and Gatland was visitors Lions coach

bestleftfull3 · 18-11-2016 04:59AM

Is anyone making the trip over for this?
Living in melbourne and planning to make the trip over, have bought tickets for two of the non test games and hoping to get to the first test game in Auckland!

Acquiring tickets for that so far has been difficult. I've entered the Team all blacks ballot but unfortunately received two unsuccessful emails

All other avenues seems to be through packages

Dog Botherer · 20-11-2016 03:15AM

Early days I know, but surely an all Irish Lions backrow is very possible? Heaslip, Stander, O'Brien, Van Der Flier, O'Mahony, possibly even Jordi Murphy and Leavy could well be in contention come next year. Looking at Wales, Scotland, and England, it's very difficult to pick out anyone who'd get into an Irish backrow, or even bench. Warburton, maybe, if he ever finds his form of about 3 years ago? Vunipola was barnstorming in the 6 Nations but Heaslip's all round game is on another level. Robshaw and Haskell are workmanlike but wouldn't bring anything special. Scotland always seem to have a bevy of very decent flankers but no world class ones jump out.

Wouldn't be shocked though if Lydiate started against the AB's, knowing Gatty.

Clegg · 20-11-2016 11:16AM

An all Ireland backrow is possible as they're all in fine form but it just won't happen. There'll be uproar if Vunipola isn't selected and Faletau is a world class 8 as well. Lydiate should've get in the squad. Just too limited a player. We've seen that the way to beat NZ is by attacking non stop. He isn't a good enough carrier.

What'll really be interesting is the selection at open side. If SoB can stay fit he's the best 7 in the northern hemisphere. But Gatland will still make Warburton captain.

corny · 20-11-2016 02:26PM

Heaslip won't travel. Vunipola is guaranteed a place and across the water Faletau is held in a higher regard. Warburton will probably be captain again. O'Brien or Stander might get the other position but far from certain.

joshrogan · 20-11-2016 02:36PM

Who's everyones starting hooker? Hartley or Best? Hartley has never lost as England captain but over the 2 tests vs NZ Best was Ireland's man of the series IMO.

Felix Jones is God · 20-11-2016 02:40PM

joshrogan wrote: »

Who's everyones starting hooker? Hartley or Best? Hartley has never lost as England captain but over the 2 tests vs NZ Best was Ireland's man of the series IMO.

Hartley is nailed on at the moment

Teferi · 20-11-2016 02:42PM

corny wrote: »

Heaslip won't travel. Vunipola is guaranteed a place and across the water Faletau is held in a higher regard. Warburton will probably be captain again. O'Brien or Stander might get the other position but far from certain.

If Heaslip maintains his current form I think he has a good chance of travelling. He won't start but he offers something a little different to the other possible 8's on the tour.

Kal El · 20-11-2016 03:37PM

corny wrote: »

Heaslip won't travel. Vunipola is guaranteed a place and across the water Faletau is held in a higher regard. Warburton will probably be captain again. O'Brien or Stander might get the other position but far from certain.

How can you rule out a player who just got nominated for world player of the year

corny · 20-11-2016 04:01PM

Teferi wrote: »

If Heaslip maintains his current form I think he has a good chance of travelling. He won't start but he offers something a little different to the other possible 8's on the tour.

Kal El wrote: »

How can you rule out a player who just got nominated for world player of the year

I'd start Heaslip on current form but I don't pick the team. Heaslip is the easiest to leave out for Gatland. The way his team play is he going to ignore Vunipola, the most powerful carrier in B&I? I don't think so.

I'm not convinced he's going to leave out Faletau either. The Welsh think the man can walk on water. I know Heaslip started in SA but Faletaus profile has grown considerably since then. The Wales coach leaving him out is inconceivable imo.

Bar drastic form issues or injury i think thats valid.

Quint2010 · 20-11-2016 04:02PM

Can't see Warburton being captain. He's too injury prone plus Wales are rubbish at the moment compared to Ireland and England. The Lions will be dominated by England with Ireland next. Can only see an English captain but that might depend if Ireland can do a grand slam because its the only way they will beat England to a 6n title.

Cathalthesmart · 20-11-2016 04:13PM

Against NZ i'd be more inclined to go with Heaslip or Faletau. Vunipola is destructive going forward but lets be blunt, he's a fat f*ck and a team with the pace of NZ will target him and simply run rings around him because he can't run and has nothing to his game except bash players which NZ will lap up all day. Against any other team on the planet fair enough that will work but not against NZ especially in NZ.

Clegg · 21-11-2016 12:13AM

The Express say Rob Howley will be appointed attack coach for the Lions. If this comes to fruition then we're ****ed. Wales have no attacking gameplan that can scare NZ.

irishbucsfan · 21-11-2016 12:16AM

Clegg wrote: »

The Express say Rob Howley will be appointed attack coach for the Lions. If this comes to fruition then we're ****ed. Wales have no attacking gameplan that can scare NZ.

Why. Why. Why.

awec · 21-11-2016 12:19AM

I'm telling you, the Lions may not win a single game over there.

Kal El · 21-11-2016 12:47AM

Clegg wrote: »

The Express say Rob Howley will be appointed attack coach for the Lions. If this comes to fruition then we're ****ed. Wales have no attacking gameplan that can scare NZ.

What logic could possibly come into that thinking

Adbrowne · 21-11-2016 01:00AM

Kal El wrote: »

What logic could possibly come into that thinking

You do know who the Lions coach is?

Plan A - Roberts on the crash ball up the middle
Plan B - Plan A on repeat
Plan C - Plan A then Plan B.

Kal El · 21-11-2016 01:09AM

Adbrowne wrote: »

You do know who the Lions coach is?

Plan A - Roberts on the crash ball up the middle
Plan B - Plan A on repeat
Plan C - Plan A then Plan B.

I like it............wait no no I dont. :mad:
If Roberts gets hurt??
Does Henshaw fill the gap in the plan

On the plus side the plan does allow us to get all the lookers in the team sure they arent going to be at much else.

Bring back Henson, Kearney at fb, Cipriani at ten to pop the ball to Roberts, we may not win but dam we will look good :pac:

Cathalthesmart · 21-11-2016 01:34AM

awec wrote: »

I'm telling you, the Lions may not win a single game over there.

Not win a single game? we won't even come close in a single game if Howley has any role to play in the Lions team, him being picked as attack coach indicates that Gatland will still probably pick Welsh players despite how dreadful they have been. If all this happens I won't be saying "we" when I talk about the Lions, not getting behind this nonsense if Gatland isn't even objective enough to see that Howley is simply not good enough to be an attack coach at this level and most of the Welsh players he will likely choose aren't either.

Connacht2KXX · 21-11-2016 10:52AM

I know it is crazy looking at a Lions team this far out but I cant see much deviation from this XV by Gatland:
1 McGrath
2 Hartley
3 Cole
4 Itoje
5 AWJ
6 Lydiate
7 Warburton (c)
8 Vunipola
9 Murray
10 Biggar (assuming Sexton will be injured)
11 North
12 Roberts
13 Davies/Tuilagi
14 May
15 Halfpenny

If Warburton isn't captain, I could see Hartley as captain with a backrow of 6. Warburton 7. Haskell/SOB 8. Vunipola or with Lydiate in at 6 for Warburton.

If this team is picked with Howley as head coach, then I can't see us winning any of the tests and will struggle to beat the club teams.

bilston · 21-11-2016 10:59AM

AWJ would be my choice for captain, but he has a lot of competition in the second row in Itoje, Kruis, Toner, Gray, Launchbury and Lawes etc etc.

Appointing someone with national loyalties is asking for trouble. We got away with it in 2013 because Wales were the best side at the time and deserved the level of selection they got. At the moment, based on the last few weeks anyway, they are arguably the weakest of the Home Nations, so if current form continues Gatland will have some very difficult choices to make given he has to go back to work in Wales in September 2017.

Clegg · 21-11-2016 11:17AM

Roberts shouldn't even be travelling with the Lions. If we're looking at centres there are at least 4 who have been better than him for a long time. If they're that desperate for a crash ball centre Henshaw does it better than Roberts plus he's a better athlete and footballer.

Wouldn't be having Halfpenny in the side either tbh. He isn't offering enough as a fullback to justify his place. Goalkicking isn't enough.

thomond2006 · 21-11-2016 12:11PM

If Sexton goes on the tour and starts the tests then he should be rested until 2017. Lions Tours are potentially career shortening.

Lions 2017 [MOD WARNING IN OP]

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