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Voter suppression and fraud thread

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    #62
    Ozymandius2011
    Registered Users Posts: 1,149 ✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    "True the Vote" rightwing group forging poll-watcher application forms.


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    #63
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    Fancy that… UN election monitoring officials are amazed that the US doesn’t require ID to vote!

    http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/11/06/foreign_election_officials_amazed_by_trust_based_us_voting_system


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    #64
    Ozymandius2011
    Registered Users Posts: 1,149 ✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    Howard Dean says Obama can only lose Ohio through voter suppression.

    Robocalls reminding people to vote - on Wednesday.


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    #65
    Higher
    Site Banned Posts: 1,519 ✭✭✭Higher


    jesus, africans and hispanics communities in key swing states getting called and told that voting is on until Wednesday

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/florida-voter-robocalls-174406076--election.html


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    #66
    Duck Soup
    Registered Users Posts: 3,996 ✭✭✭Duck Soup


    Higher wrote: »
    jesus, africans and hispanics communities in key swing states getting called and told that voting is on until Wednesday

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/florida-voter-robocalls-174406076--election.html

    From a link in the article you linked to:
    Poll challenges, phony instructions could mar vote

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Persistent reports of robocalls incorrectly telling voters they can cast ballots over the phone and fears of aggressive challenges by monitors at polling places threaten to mar Election Day in many key states, voting rights advocates said Monday.

    The fake phone calls, some of which involve live callers, continued to crop up in Virginia, North Carolina and Florida, primarily among African-American voters, said Barbara Arnwine of the Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights Under Law. The group has mounted a counteroffensive of tens of thousands of calls reminding voters they can't cast ballots over the phone.

    "That is really dirty," said Arnwine, who added that the callers' identities remain a mystery. "It's a very sophisticated operation and it's very widespread, and it's very troubling to us."

    http://news.yahoo.com/poll-challenges-phony-instructions-could-mar-vote-213620094--election.html


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    #67
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,264 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Higher wrote: »
    jesus, africans and hispanics communities in key swing states getting called and told that voting is on until Wednesday

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/florida-voter-robocalls-174406076--election.html

    Got to love the assumption you make here.

    That county is 82% white. At least 74% white, non-hispanic. The explanation makes sense as well, and the article also states that when the glitch was found, another round of calls was made correcting it. This is far from an example of nefarious minority-vote-suppressing.


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    #68
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    Ozymandius2011 wrote: »
    Howard Dean says Obama can only lose Ohio through voter suppression.

    Hmmm... If Obama had Ohio sewn up, why then did he spend sooooo much time there campaigning recently?


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    #69
    CiaranMT
    Registered Users Posts: 4,092 ✭✭✭CiaranMT


    Just watching CNN here and they reported on a couple of voting machines (can't remember where in the country) that would highlight Mitt Romney when you selected Barack Obama on the interface. Amateur footage was shown during it.

    They reported that the machines were fixed but jaysus, the conspiracy theorists would love that one.


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    #70
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,963 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Amerika wrote: »
    Some pics for your viewing pleasure from today's voting...

    A Philadelphia, PA Polling station.
    pollingsite_philly.jpg


    One from a Tallahassee, FL voting station.
    566043_10102421131125663_1677182793_n.jpg?oh=c350535dc7d74219c74a6e7eea5d4ae6&oe=509B06EE&__gda__=1352446182_ed9fc1ef35edc9e686451a65cf259431


    An election judge in Chicago with his Obama garb.
    obamahat.preview.jpg
    And I was miffed walking out of my polling station when I saw campaign signs across the street (within 100ft), that there is just taking the biscuit.


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    #71
    nagilum2
    Registered Users Posts: 319 ✭✭nagilum2


    Overheal wrote: »
    And I was miffed walking out of my polling station when I saw campaign signs across the street (within 100ft), that there is just taking the biscuit.

    Once again, more evidence that anyone who thinks that only the Republicans try to gain votes through nefarious means is crazy, or just a homer.


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    #72
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,264 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Apparently a PA judge ruled down pretty quickly on the one of them. This was the result.
    philly_mural2.jpg
    Face gone, logo and quotes still visible. Oh well.


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    #73
    Carcharodon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,958 ✭✭✭Carcharodon


    Its absolutely mind blowing how the Republicans have turned "voter fraud" into an issue for this current election, the lies and misinformation spread to the general public is quite disturbing from people we are suppose to trust to run our country. The amount of effort to prevent people to vote in order to gain power makes me sick, its just not democratic and goes againt everything this country wants to stand for.
    This is an excellent interview about the history of these policies, well worth a read http://www.npr.org/2016/07/22/487033262/block-the-vote-a-journalist-discusses-voting-rights-and-restrictions
    Here is the end of the interview
    GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. Let's get back to my interview with Ari Berman, author of "Give Us The Ballot: The Modern Struggle for Voting Rights in America.
    So what do you think is behind the wave of new voting restrictions that we've seen in the past few years?
    BERMAN: I think it's an attempt by elements in the Republican Party to make the electorate older, whiter and more conservative, as opposed to how the electorate was in 2008 when Barack Obama was elected. If you look at the methods that Republicans are using to try to make it harder to vote, they disproportionately affect minority voters, younger voters who were the core of Obama's coalition. But they also disproportionately target the methods that the Obama administration used so successfully to win election and then re-election.
    The Obama campaign brought a lot of new voters into the political process by doing things like intensive voter registration drives, expanded early voting hours and days, things like same-day registration, where you can show up, register and vote at the same time. These reforms boosted political participation broadly and particularly helped Democratic candidates because the Democratic base is less likely to turn out than the Republican base in the usual course of things.
    And so I think the country saw the huge turnout of new voters as a good thing in 2008. The 2008 electorate was the most diverse in American history. But some elements of the Republican base were very concerned by this new American electorate, which was dubbed the coalition of the ascendant. And instead of deciding to reach out to the changing demographics in the country, they started to think of new ways to make it harder for these people to participate in the political process.
    GROSS: What are the kinds of restrictions that we're seeing now that are being contested?
    BERMAN: So there's a whole range of voting restrictions. According to the Brennan Center for Justice, 468 new voting restrictions have been introduced in 49 states from 2011 to 2015. And half the states in the country have passed new laws making it harder to vote. So we're seeing this all over the country. The things that we're seeing, for example, are making it harder to register to vote, shutting down voter registration drives, eliminating same-day voter registration, cutting early voting, cutting back the hours and days for early voting, purging the voting rolls, requiring government-issued ID to cast a ballot.
    This was not something that was needed - strict forms of government-issued ID - until very recently. And it was something that was not proliferating all around the country - preventing ex-felons from being able to vote. These are all the type of new voting changes we're seeing. And they're different from the literacy tests or poll taxes of years past. They're not so explicit. They're more sophisticated. But I think it's a similar effort to try to shape an electoral system in one party's favor and to decide or try to determine who can and cannot participate in the political process.
    GROSS: Having written this new book about voting rights, what are your concerns about the 2016 presidential election?
    BERMAN: I'm very concerned about it because the 2016 presidential election's going to be the first presidential election in 50 years without the full protections of the Voting Rights Act. I think, in many ways, we've come to take the VRA and what it did for granted. But the fact that states can pass new voting restrictions - those states with the worst histories of voting discrimination no longer have to clear their election changes with the federal government - means that, number one, those states can pass new restrictions very close to the election that are very hard to challenge.
    And it also means, number two, that other states are going to feel emboldened to try to pass these efforts. So we're already facing a situation where, in key swing states like North Carolina, Wisconsin, Ohio, Virginia, new voting restrictions are in effect and could have a very big impact on the outcome of the 2016 election if they're not blocked in court.
    GROSS: So the story that you are telling in your book, "Give Us The Ballot: The Modern Struggle For Voting Rights In America" - this is a story that is not nearly over yet.
    BERMAN: It's not over. And we always want, as authors, to be able to tell a story that has a neat and tidy ending. But one of the reasons why I wanted to write this book is because I knew the fight for voting rights was not over. I knew that the history of the Voting Rights Act was unsettled. And I knew that we're going to be entering a period when the right to vote is contested, probably for many years going forward.
    And so I wanted to talk about the history and emphasize the importance of the history at a time when there is a new debate over voting rights. And so I don't predict to know how that debate is going to end. But I know that it's an important debate and one that I wanted my book to be part of.
    GROSS: Ari Berman, thank you so much for talking with us.
    BERMAN: Thank you so much, Terry.
    GROSS: Ari Berman is the author of "Give Us The Ballot." It will be published in paperback August 2.


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    #74
    RDM_83 again
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    I don't really get the issue with requiring some sort of ID or proof of identity to vote?I'm not familiar with the US but wouldn't everybody have something? Like how can an adult function with no proof of identity at all?Don't you need it for accessing social services etc


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    #75
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,963 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Seems bumpworthy given the 3rd POTUS debate thread became a voter fraud thread.

    Here's the real kind of election fraud happening,

    https://www.quora.com/Who-benefits-more-from-gerrymandering-in-America-at-the-US-Congressional-level-Republicans-or-Democrats

    Voter fraud at the polls has been consistently found to be statistically insignificant and in many cases non-existent, with accusations of it coming down to non-malicious errors in voting.


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    #76
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    RDM_83 again wrote: »
    I don't really get the issue with requiring some sort of ID or proof of identity to vote?I'm not familiar with the US but wouldn't everybody have something? Like how can an adult function with no proof of identity at all?Don't you need it for accessing social services etc

    We're not talking about Ireland, where you can produce a library card. When we talk about restrictive voter ID laws in the US, we're talking about situations where Republican administrations have consciously figured out which forms of ID Democratic-voting people are least likely to have (and find it hardest to get), and passing laws to require those specific forms of ID.

    Requiring ID to vote isn't an outrageous idea, per se. The problem is that, in the land of the free, it's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, and is pretty much exclusively used for voter suppression.


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    #77
    CMOTDibbler
    Registered Users Posts: 7,415 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    We're not talking about Ireland, where you can produce a library card. When we talk about restrictive voter ID laws in the US, we're talking about situations where Republican administrations have consciously figured out which forms of ID Democratic-voting people are least likely to have (and find it hardest to get), and passing laws to require those specific forms of ID.

    Requiring ID to vote isn't an outrageous idea, per se. The problem is that, in the land of the free, it's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, and is pretty much exclusively used for voter suppression.
    The other issue is that the 24th amendment specifies that voting should be available and free to all. Requiring an ID that you have to pay for would contravene that.

    Pennsylvania brought in a free ID card, but that was also overturned in court because it could only be obtained in DMV offices which many voters couldn't access because there weren't nearly enough of them and many were only open one or two days a week.

    It's like a game of snakes and ladders. The object of which seems to be to disenfranchise rather than prevent fraud.


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    #78
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,963 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    In Governor Pence's own Indiana, police raided a voter drive which registered 45,000 new (mostly black) voters.

    https://thinkprogress.org/indiana-registration-raid-51a6a7a83f37#.ru5fh1ho3
    Patriot Majority alleges the investigation and raid were political moves, and that Lawson worked closely with Gov. Mike Pence (R), who has pushed the “voter fraud” conspiracy on the campaign trail alongside Donald Trump.
    “We’ve seen nothing but partisan activity from the secretary of state, and even from the police,” Buck said. “They saw that there was a very successful voter registration drive happening, and this was an attempt to shut it down.”
    “It’s clear that the governor or the governor’s staff are very aware and involved in what’s happening,” he continued. “It fits into the Trump/Pence narrative that in certain neighborhoods, you have to watch how many times people show up to vote and how things happen.”
    Before raiding IVRP’s offices, police were already using aggressive tactics during their investigation of the group.
    According to the New Republic, “police detectives arrived unannounced at the homes of get-out-the-vote activists to interrogate them about their voter registration work.”
    Lydia Garrett, a 57-year-old voter registration worker, told the New Republic that police came to her home and repeatedly asked her if the group illegally sets quotas for canvassers.
    “That’s what they kept on asking me: ‘How many did they tell you to get? How many did they tell you to get?’” she told a reporter. “And I said: ‘Sir, you can come back with two or three [registrations] and you’re still paid. I don’t understand what you’re saying.’”
    Garrett claims that investigators kept questioning her, trying to get her to “say something negative.” She said police even asked her if she would be willing to submit to a polygraph test about her registration work.
    Neither the police nor the secretary of state’s office would not comment on their tactics.
    State elections officials have also enlisted the help of the Indiana State Police to push the “voter fraud” myth. Superintendent Doug Carter, who was chosen for the position by Pence, has been on television and was interviewed on right-wing radio Tuesday morning about the ongoing investigation.
    On conservative talk radio, Carter said that “the notion that there is voter registration fraud is very real,” but denied that the investigation is “driven by politics.”
    He accused the IVRP of forging signatures and making up people’s names. “To what purpose? We don’t know,” he told radio host Tony Katz. “That’s the purpose of the investigation. Were these acts of gross negligence? Were they acts of intent? That’s what we don’t know, and we don’t want to speculate.”
    He added that police are going through thousands of registrations to make sure that nothing nefarious occurred.
    “While I’ve been blamed by some of intentionally disenfranchising voters, nothing could be further from the truth,” he said.

    On TV, Carter also called it “unconscionable” that anyone would imply that Pence ordered the raid, while also indicating his close relationship with the governor.
    “I wish people could know Mike Pence like I do,” he said. “He has never ever tried to influence me with a decision that I had to make within the state police as we protect the citizens of this state.”

    Look who's rigging the election now...

    "The only kind of voter fraud that (Indiana's voter ID law) addresses is in-person voter impersonation at polling places," Stevens wrote. "The record contains no evidence of any such fraud actually occurring in Indiana at any time in its history."

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2016/10/24/indiana-voter-fraud/92675190/
    Carter explained that voters' names, addresses and other information have been changed. In some cases, registration forms were filled in with fake information.

    How widespread is the problem?

    "Pure speculation at this point," Carter explained.
    http://www.wthr.com/article/indiana-state-police-provide-update-on-voter-fraud-investigation

    Abhorrent stuff.


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    #79
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-10-28/some-cities-want-their-immigrants-to-vote
    http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2016/10/27/2-investigators-chicago-voters-cast-ballots-from-beyond-the-grave/
    http://6abc.com/politics/action-news-investigation-voting-from-the-grave/1575596/
    http://www.infowars.com/maryland-trump-supporter-they-switched-my-vote-to-hillary/
    http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/election/article111029767.html
    http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/politics/Man-Accused-With-Filing-Fake-Voter-Registration-Applications-399027631.html

    There’s no voter fraud…. Right?


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    #80
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Post moved to the relevant thread.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #81
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,963 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Amerika wrote: »
    http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-10-28/some-cities-want-their-immigrants-to-vote
    http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2016/10/27/2-investigators-chicago-voters-cast-ballots-from-beyond-the-grave/
    http://6abc.com/politics/action-news-investigation-voting-from-the-grave/1575596/
    http://www.infowars.com/maryland-trump-supporter-they-switched-my-vote-to-hillary/
    http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/election/article111029767.html
    http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/politics/Man-Accused-With-Filing-Fake-Voter-Registration-Applications-399027631.html

    There’s no voter fraud…. Right?
    Let's go through that:

    - A state wanting to legally change its state election rules. Not fraud.

    - Jim Allen, a city election board spokesman, says a majority of those dead voters were most likely clerical errors, involving family members with the same names and addresses.

    “This is not the bad old days,” Allen says. “There are just a few instances here where a father came in for a son, or a neighbor was given the wrong ballot application and signed it.”

    The few cases reported here, over a quarter century, do not paint a vast national conspiracy that can tip an election.

    - Commissioner Schmidt's office also checked some of the names Action News provided them. Schmidt said in the small sample-check he did, his office found no clear evidence of fraud.

    "We do have one guy that is questionable, definitely," he added.

    Schmidt also said that most of the issues he found would be considered human error. He cited things like poll workers scanning the wrong name, a person who would have signed in the wrong spot, or a son with the same name who may have voted in his dead father's place instead of his own.

    - Previously covered case of human error, and not a problem with the machine. Not evidence of conspiracy to commit electoral fraud. Similar reports always crop up during election cycles where votes are switched interchangeably: if there was a conspiracy to tamper with voting booths, both parties are in on it, then..

    - Case of election worker fraud that shows how steep the penalties are. No new law requiring voter suppression at the polls would have fixed that, both cases caught under the current configuration.

    - No votes cast. 40 years in jail. Seems like justice served to me.


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    #82
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    Amerika wrote: »
    There’s no voter fraud…. Right?

    I don't think anyone is saying that there is no voter fraud at all, but it doesn't appear to be of much consequence.

    From your own links:

    http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-10-28/some-cities-want-their-immigrants-to-vote
    Not about voter fraud at all, but moves by some cities to extend the right to vote in some elections to non citizens.
    - - - - - - - -

    http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2016/10/27/2-investigators-chicago-voters-cast-ballots-from-beyond-the-grave/
    229 cases over 10 years and mostly not fraud at all.
    Jim Allen, a city election board spokesman, says a majority of those dead voters were most likely clerical errors, involving family members with the same names and addresses.
    - - - - - - - -


    http://6abc.com/politics/action-news-investigation-voting-from-the-grave/1575596/
    Again, a small number of cases, and again, mostly not voter fraud.
    Commissioner Schmidt's office also checked some of the names Action News provided them. Schmidt said in the small sample-check he did, his office found no clear evidence of fraud.

    "We do have one guy that is questionable, definitely," he added.

    Schmidt also said that most of the issues he found would be considered human error. He cited things like poll workers scanning the wrong name, a person who would have signed in the wrong spot, or a son with the same name who may have voted in his dead father's place instead of his own.
    - - - - - - - -



    http://www.infowars.com/maryland-trump-supporter-they-switched-my-vote-to-hillary/
    An unsubstantiated allegation on InfoWars, put down to voter error.
    One election official responded by claiming the problems were caused by voters not understanding how to use the machines properly.
    - - - - - - - -

    http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/election/article111029767.html
    Another isolated case where two arrests have been made, but no conviction. No illegal votes cast.
    - - - - - - - -

    http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/politics/Man-Accused-With-Filing-Fake-Voter-Registration-Applications-399027631.html
    Again, a charge, but no conviction and no illegal votes cast.
    - - - - - - - -

    If this is the kind of thing Trump is on about, I don't think we need to be too worried.


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    #83
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    I've always loved the 'just a little bit pregnant' defense regarding voter fraud.

    How about this one... Where's there's smoke, there's fire?

    Showing valid ID would help to end the problems.


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    #84
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,963 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Amerika wrote: »
    I've always loved the 'just a little bit pregnant' defense regarding voter fraud.

    How about this one... Where's there's smoke, there's fire?

    So back to the gun show loophole with that logic...


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    #85
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    Overheal wrote: »
    So back to the gun show loophole with that logic...

    We keep going round and round on this one... The gun show loophole is a myth! You showed videos to try and prove it exists, but all it did was show someone broke the law, not that there is a loophole.


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    #86
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,963 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Amerika wrote: »
    We keep going round and round on this one... The gun show loophole is a myth! You showed videos to try and prove it exists, but all it did was show someone broke the law, not that there is a loophole.

    But Amerika... we have documented cases where the gun show loophole has worked in action. There's the smoke. Therefore there is fire. Right?


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    #87
    FISMA.
    Registered Users Posts: 451 ✭✭FISMA.


    Overheal wrote: »
    So back to the gun show loophole with that logic...

    Nice talking point, however, there is no loophole in federal law that specifically exempts gun show transactions from any other laws normally applied to gun sales.


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    #88
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,963 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Smoke: Donald Trump supporter arrested on voter fraud charges at polls

    http://huff.to/2f16tGM


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    #89
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Is it true that some states you don't even need ID to vote
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #90
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,084 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Gatling wrote: »
    Is it true that some states you don't even need ID to vote


    Yes and Democrats believe that making it a requirement disenfranchises minorities


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    #91
    FISMA.
    Registered Users Posts: 451 ✭✭FISMA.


    Gatling wrote: »
    Is it true that some states you don't even need ID to vote

    Yes. I have never been asked for any form of ID: passport, license, library card, credit card, phone bill...


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