Goodbye Irish Rail?

Bray Head wrote: »

Ireland has a rail system, but not really a rail network.
What % of passengers use two successive heavy rail journeys to make a trip?
My guess is that it is extremely low. But I am happy if you have data to prove me wrong.

In all my years I've known one person to do Belfast to Cork. He actually started in Larne. I wouldn't wish that journey on my worst enemy and in fairness they're the 2 best routes!

GM220 - link:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/shane-ross-under-fire-after-leaking-of-rail-review-427336.html

A spokesperson for the minister yesterday told the Irish Examiner that he would bring the report to Cabinet next week.

“As indicated at the Oireachtas Committee on Transport on October 5, last, Minister Ross recently received a copy of the Rail Review conducted by the National Transport Authority and Irish Rail, which examines the funding parameters required to support our rail network now and into the future.

“It is his intention to bring the report to Cabinet next week and to arrange very shortly for its publication and commencement of a public consultation process,” said the spokesperson.

“In the meantime, decisions on Budget 2017 provide for additional funding of over €50 million to Irish Rail next year aimed at increasing investment in maintenance and renewal of the network and the rolling stock, and also to provide more funding for safety projects,” added the spokesperson.

Idbatterim wrote: »

some of the figures on these lines, are beyond a joke and they should be closed.

and then years later we have the same thing so we must close more "just because" and then "shur itl be grand" . i personally wouldn't trust the figures as some lines irish rail do want rid of and any surveys by the NTA seem to be done on a mid week winters day.

Idbatterim wrote: »

If the network is being starved of funding, better off dropping the joke schemes.

or just fund the network and implement the schemes that need doing. regardless of what one thinks our rail network costs buttons in the great scheeme of things. plenty of room for growth and increased usage but they're must be something worth using. bring all the network up to the highest speeds possible, implement passing loops or double tracking where possible, finish the krp, quad track along the dart line where possible. eventually electrify maynooth when it's stock is near retirement, kildare should be done first though as it's services are used by intercity stock which it shouldn't be and those carriges can be re-deployed to the duties they are supposed to be operating, increasing services and capacity.

Idbatterim wrote: »

Out of interest, could dart underground not go from heuston to pearse, connolly and then onto airport - swords and join with northern line there?

Instead of metro north, I do know however, that there would be a lot less stops on this scheme, than MN...

absolutely agree and this is what i've been proposing on here that mn should be built as a dart instead incorporated into DU and the wider network. they're might be less stops then mn with this, and then again they're may not have to be. modern EMU stock has very quick stop start these days though, so it should be able to manage the amount of stops that would have been proposed with mn. i believe it would offer more benefits in the long term.

Carawaystick wrote: »

Bray Head wrote: »

Ireland has a rail system, but not really a rail network.
What % of passengers use two successive heavy rail journeys to make a trip?
My guess is that it is extremely low. But I am happy if you have data to prove me wrong.

There used be a decent few people getting off the train that is scheduled to arrive in Connolly at 8:34 and get the next southbound train, maybe a hundred or so when I used to do the same.
Also a fair few people came from the outside platforms to get a Sligo train on P4 in Connolly most evenings.

However you're using a switcheroo by complaining about a rail network, and only using heavy rail trips to back your claim up.

The plural of anecdote is not data.

But if you have any data to back up your claim then let me know...

end of the road wrote: »

Bray Head wrote: »

The plural of anecdote is not data.

But if you have any data to back up your claim then let me know...

and where is he going to get it. the oh so trust worthy irish rail and NTA? anyway either way people do connect from trains to other trains and we do have a rail network

Of course some people connect from train to train.

My contention is that it is very low and no one has given me any evidence to the contrary.

My own anecdotal experience is that I have only ever used rail for point-to-point journeys in Ireland. I have made plenty of connections abroad.

Bray Head wrote: »

Of course some people connect from train to train.

My contention is that it is very low and no one has given me any evidence to the contrary.

My own anecdotal experience is that I have only ever used rail for point-to-point journeys in Ireland. I have made plenty of connections abroad.

the problem is we can't give it to you because they're is nothing availible to give us information on train to train connections, or if they're is it's likely not independant, or it wasn't done at the best times to give a full picture of what is happening. for example the NTA usage thing is done on a november day mid week rather then on the busiest days, sunday/monday/friday as it should be, as it would give a better picture.
so for example.

a station might have 5 people boarding the 17.15 train to dublin on a wednesday in the evening, with 3 getting off.
on friday evening however, the same station might have 50 or more boarding the train to dublin, with 100 getting off. 100 get off the train from dublin, 3 board, or 3 get off and 100 board.
sunday, 90 board the evening train to dublin, 20 get off, 18 board the train coming from dublin, 27 get off.
monday morning, 150 boarding the train to dublin, 2 get off, 3 board the morning from dublin and 2 board. the afternoons might have anything between 0 and 100 getting on and off each day.

i'm just picking random numbers, days and times to show you how the figuring out of usage when simply done at a speciffic time can be random and not show a clear picture of real usage figures.

Stephen15 wrote: »

So why don't IE attract more freight to justify the lines in use

I suspect that the nature of freight in Ireland has changed since we as a country no longer really make anything of low-medium value in bulk.

Eg, back in the 70s/80s you'd have had 2 fertiliser factories, NET in Arklow and Albatros in New Ross, both of which would have distributed finished product in specialised wagons. The closure of Albatros meant the closure of the Waterford-New Ross goods line.

Most things that I know of are of smaller size requiring distribution to multiple diverse locations. A logistics operation that's more suited to road haulage than rail freight I suspect.

Stephen15 wrote:

So why don't IE attract more freight to justify the lines in use

Totally agree, there is freight on the lines already, most of which we don't see. The problem is networking it directly to the ports and onto the ships as our major container ports are Drogheda, Dublin (south side) & Tivoli. Tivoli is being moved down to the tax free end of Ringaskiddy with no infrastructure other than a national clogged up primary road you wouldn't let your granny drive on with no prospects of a rail line going down to it which is beyond me. They should instead expand to the old rusty fertilizer terminal at marine point on Cobh and dredge out some of Mahon pool for a turning circle for the ships. That way, as the train line passes through the old terminal, tivoli can remain and a second ship can load discharge straight onto the rail trucks.

josip wrote:

I suspect that the nature of freight in Ireland has changed since we as a country no longer really make anything of low-medium value in bulk.

There's still plenty of fish and dairy exported by the truck load that could get into reefer teu's as easy. Again it's the lack of station facilities to load up these containers onto trucks in the midlands that's the issue.
Not to mention port facilities for screening and inspection before loading onto the ships.

Further to the point about the Cork/Dublin line, some of the short hops (as rare as a trip like that is) are even crazier when it comes to fares.

Limerick Junction to Thurles - a 20 minute journey time
€11.35 single, €19.50 return

Twilight zone fare! People from the Limerick Jct area going to Thurles for a GAA match could easily park at Limerick Junction (€4 a day is very reasonable) and hop on the train to Thurles but that fare completely eliminates that option.

Meanwhile you can go from Limerick Junction to Waterford on a €13.50 day return, available at the station.

Bray Head wrote: »

Of course some people connect from train to train.

My contention is that it is very low and no one has given me any evidence to the contrary.

My own anecdotal experience is that I have only ever used rail for point-to-point journeys in Ireland. I have made plenty of connections abroad.

Why are you excluding tram/train journeys?

Bray Head wrote: »

Because this thread is about Irish Rail.
My point is that closing bits of the system makes little difference to probability of use for the other parts. This is less the case with Dublin suburban rail obviously.

You said there's no rail network, and asked only for heavy rail to heavy rail transfers. My point is that you need to look at tram to train and vice versa transfers also.
Or else you need to change your statement to no heavy rail network.

Bray Head wrote: »

Happily. Clearly there is some interchange between users of Luas and heavy rail at Heuston and Connolly.

Now, do you have any evidence of heavy rail-to-heavy rail transfers in the Irish system?

Limerick Junction for trains to/from Limerick & Ennis

Limerick between trains to/from Ennis and those from Dublin/Limerick Junction where it isn't a through service

Mallow for trains to/from Tralee

Manulla Junction for trains to/from Ballina

Also any northern line/Maynooth line train terminating at Connolly will have reasonable transfers to southbound DART services and vice versa.

People do also connect between DART and Maynooth line/Northern line trains at Pearse in reasonable numbers. Go and stand there at rush hour and it will become apparent.