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Leinster vs Munster Match Day Thread, 08th Oct 2016, Aviva Stadium, SS1 & TG4

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,071 ✭✭✭✭wp_rathead


    Ringshaw / Henshrose is going to be awesome this season / years to come.

    Please don't make this a thing


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    wp_rathead wrote: »
    Please don't make this a thing

    Leinster should sell t-shirts.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    wp_rathead wrote: »
    Please don't make this a thing

    [tumblr_n0lcbdYvD01sl21koo1_500.gif


  • Registered Users Posts: 686 ✭✭✭Flincher


    No. It's supposed to be an independent process. Though some strange decisions get taken when it comes to interpro games.

    Anything goes in Munster v Leinster. Sexton kicking Mafi in the face, John Hayes stamping on Healy, and the O'Connell/Kearney incident all spring to mind. Basically any suspensions (or lack thereof) are determined based on the importance of upcoming fixtures.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,967 ✭✭✭Synode


    Clegg wrote: »
    That worked well even with a 34 year old full back

    Kearney is only 30 no?


  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Johan Large Viewer


    Flincher wrote: »
    Anything goes in Munster v Leinster. Sexton kicking Mafi in the face, John Hayes stamping on Healy, and the O'Connell/Kearney incident all spring to mind. Basically any suspensions (or lack thereof) are determined based on the importance of upcoming fixtures.

    Sexton got banned and Hayes got sent off for those incidents respectively.


  • Site Banned Posts: 2,055 ✭✭✭Adbrowne


    Synode wrote: »
    Kearney is only 30 no?

    he is talking about Nacewa ......


  • Site Banned Posts: 2,055 ✭✭✭Adbrowne


    http://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/matchstats?gameId=290457&league=270557

    Few interesting stats here.

    Leinsters top carriers were Ringrose [10] and Henshaw [15], Munsters were Holland [11], Zebo [11] and Stander [22]

    18 defenders beaten for Leinster [Ringrose 7, Henshaw 3]
    12 defenders beaten for Munster [Zebo and Bleyendaal 3 each]

    So Munsters top 3 carriers beat 4 defenders [Stander 1, Zebo 3] between them.


  • Subscribers Posts: 41,963 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Adbrowne wrote: »
    http://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/matchstats?gameId=290457&league=270557

    Few interesting stats here.

    Leinsters top carriers were Ringrose [10] and Henshaw [15], Munsters were Holland [11], Zebo [11] and Stander [22]

    18 defenders beaten for Leinster [Ringrose 7, Henshaw 3]
    12 defenders beaten for Munster [Zebo and Bleyendaal 3 each]

    So Munsters top 3 carriers beat 4 defenders [Stander 1, Zebo 3] between them.

    Very much reflects what is being said in the thread. Munsters crash runners didn't pose leinster many problems.


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  • Site Banned Posts: 2,055 ✭✭✭Adbrowne


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    Very much reflects what is being said in the thread. Munsters crash runners didn't pose leinster many problems.

    The centres making hay suggests the forwards gave them decent ruck ball to exploit gaps with.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,385 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    .ak wrote: »
    Ah for me neither team got out of 2nd gear. They'll be different animals next week. The difference is Munster were actively trying to step it up, what comforted me was Leinster looked comfortable in second gear. I'm sure the message in the circle after the game from Heaslip was intensity is required next week.

    Tbf, and i will never understand what the cause is.... Maybe walsh needs to be gotten rid of. But munster are seemingly incapable of put a backs move together.... and this has been going on for years... one off passes, slowly shuffle it out to the wings and no one draws a defender which ends up with a mess that U12's could defend against.

    How many times did ringrose and nacewa do a simple 3 on 2 down the left and they were walking through the line willy nilly. Our backrow could have played the games of their lives yesterday and it wouldnt have mattered if the backs couldnt punch through a wet paper bag.

    I still reckon foley needs to be shown the door and take most of the coaching staff with him.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    twinytwo wrote: »
    Tbf, and i will never understand what the cause is.... Maybe walsh needs to be gotten rid of. But munster are seemingly incapable of put a backs move together.... and this has been going on for years... one off passes, slowly shuffle it out to the wings and no one draws a defender which ends up with a mess that U12's could defend against.

    How many times did ringrose and nacewa do a simple 3 on 2 down the left and they were walking through the line willy nilly. Our backrow could have played the games of their lives yesterday and it wouldnt have mattered if the backs couldnt punch through a wet paper bag.

    I still reckon foley needs to be shown the door and take most of the coaching staff with him.
    You're talking about the basic skills of back play, surely the players need to take some responsibility there. Thought Taute looked very good in the short time he was on, could be a decent signing. From an outside perspective, a lot of the players simply aren't good enough though.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,333 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    twinytwo wrote: »
    Tbf, and i will never understand what the cause is.... Maybe walsh needs to be gotten rid of. But munster are seemingly incapable of put a backs move together.... and this has been going on for years... one off passes, slowly shuffle it out to the wings and no one draws a defender which ends up with a mess that U12's could defend against.

    How many times did ringrose and nacewa do a simple 3 on 2 down the left and they were walking through the line willy nilly. Our backrow could have played the games of their lives yesterday and it wouldnt have mattered if the backs couldnt punch through a wet paper bag.

    I still reckon foley needs to be shown the door and take most of the coaching staff with him.

    You do realise that Walsh left last summer and that Foley and Flannery are the only ones left from the old coaching staff don't you?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You do realise that Walsh left last summer and that Foley and Flannery are the only ones left from the old coaching staff don't you?

    What's Foley's job at the moment is it forwards coach again? Didn't Erasmus bring a forward coach with him?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,392 ✭✭✭Tefral


    What's Foley's job at the moment is it forwards coach again? Didn't Erasmus bring a forward coach with him?

    Headcoach and also coach of the Lineout and Breakdown


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Tefral wrote: »
    Headcoach and also coach of the Lineout and Breakdown

    That he very clearly is not, title aside.


  • Site Banned Posts: 2,055 ✭✭✭Adbrowne


    That he very clearly is not, title aside.

    Foley has been marginalised from what i can see. Doubt he will be there next season.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,392 ✭✭✭Tefral


    That he very clearly is not, title aside.

    Well you asked. That is his official role.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    I'd be surprised if Foley is still in charge of anything more than collecting a wage. Him keeping the head coach title was a complete(ly transparent) face saving exercise.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,668 ✭✭✭Mahatma Geansai


    Adbrowne wrote: »
    Foley has been marginalised from what i can see. Doubt he will be there next season.

    Don't bet on it. He's a highly-rated coach, but he lacks the communication skills for the top job.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,547 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Haven't had a chance to catch up on the match thread yet but here's my tuppence worth.

    Munster never got out of the blocks, we never looked like we could win it yet Leinster jumped on a few Munster errors to grab a win. Both teams need to improve for the Champions Cup games because very few will give Leinster the opportunities we gave them and we won't score too much more than we did yesterday without being more clinical.

    I've yet to see it in TV so will hold my tongue on the ref other than say if I ever see him ref a game again it will be too soon for me.


    Cronin should be cited, he lead with his shoulder in one ruck and then the raking - uncalled for.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,547 ✭✭✭✭phog




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Don't bet on it. He's a highly-rated coach, but he lacks the communication skills for the top job.

    Highly rated forwards coach that has overseen the production of no forwards of international standard in the province in how many years now?

    And if he is currently the breakdown coach then after the display at the weekend I'd be seriously concerned.

    The guy is Declan Kidney lite, he won't be coaching professional rugby next season.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Don't bet on it. He's a highly-rated coach, but he lacks the communication skills for the top job.

    That's pretty much what I heard almost verbatim!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,668 ✭✭✭Mahatma Geansai


    Highly rated forwards coach that has overseen the production of no forwards of international standard in the province in how many years now?

    And if he is currently the breakdown coach then after the display at the weekend I'd be seriously concerned.

    The guy is Declan Kidney lite, he won't be coaching professional rugby next season.

    POM, TOD, Stander, and JOD have all come through under him. As have Cronin, Kilcoyne and whoever else. He's even had Billy Holland performing very well at club level over the last 2 years.

    That's significantly better than the likes of Dempsey who has over seen a Leinster side who haven't produce any/many outside backs of note in a decade.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,320 ✭✭✭Teferi


    Girvan Dempsey somehow has something to do with a discussion on Foley. Weird.

    Sure look, we'll see how highly rated is when Foley is jettisoned in the next year or two and see what he picks up.


  • Site Banned Posts: 2,055 ✭✭✭Adbrowne


    POM, TOD, Stander, and JOD have all come through under him. As have Cronin, Kilcoyne and whoever else. He's even had Billy Holland performing very well at club level over the last 2 years.

    That's significantly better than the likes of Dempsey who has over seen a Leinster side who haven't produce any/many outside backs of note in a decade.

    Dempsey brought through Nacewa, Kirchner and JGP ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,257 ✭✭✭Hagz


    Half a decade probably would have been a more appropriate time-frame to have chosen.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Hagz wrote: »
    Half a decade probably would have been a more appropriate time-frame to have chosen.

    But that also ignores the quality in place in that time. It's hard to bring through top class players when they don't have the opportunity to get game time.

    That said in the last 10 years guys like Luke McGrath, Ian Madigan, Ian McKinley, Fergus McFadden, Eoin O'Malley, Luke Fitzgerald, Dave Kearney, Rob Kearney, Andrew Conway and Felix Jones all came through at Leinster. These guys either got capped, had promising careers ended through injury or had to move to get game time due to a queue of outside backs at the province. It's truly laughable to pick the last 10 years as a barometer of (a) Dempseys failure because he was playing 10 years ago instead of coaching and (b) Leinster failure to produce quality backs because they had so many in situ over the period and actually did develop a good few on top of those. But sure silly little things like facts rarely get in some people way here.


  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Johan Large Viewer


    molloyjh wrote: »
    But that also ignores the quality in place in that time. It's hard to bring through top class players when they don't have the opportunity to get game time.

    That said in the last 10 years guys like Luke McGrath, Ian Madigan, Ian McKinley, Fergus McFadden, Eoin O'Malley, Luke Fitzgerald, Dave Kearney, Rob Kearney, Andrew Conway and Felix Jones all came through at Leinster. These guys either got capped, had promising careers ended through injury or had to move to get game time due to a queue of outside backs at the province. It's truly laughable to pick the last 10 years as a barometer of (a) Dempseys failure because he was playing 10 years ago instead of coaching and (b) Leinster failure to produce quality backs because they had so many in situ over the period and actually did develop a good few on top of those. But sure silly little things like facts rarely get in some people way here.

    It's MG. Why would you expect it to make any sense, or indeed have basic points of fact in order?


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  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,576 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Foley as 'head' coach probably means keeping lads tighten their scrum caps.


  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Johan Large Viewer


    FWIW he was running the lineout drills before the game. What he's doing every day in training though, not sure any of us are in position to say.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,668 ✭✭✭Mahatma Geansai


    No sign of Cronin being cited so far? It was reckless on his part and he deserves a 3-6 week ban.


  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Mae Shallow Undergarment


    No sign of Cronin being cited so far? It was reckless on his part and he deserves a 3-6 week ban.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=101247144&postcount=109


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    It look like nothing is going to come of it. If he's not cited within the next couple hours it's outside the window.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Bazzo wrote: »
    It look like nothing is going to come of it. If he's not cited within the next couple hours it's outside the window.
    He may be but not announced yet. If he's cited it'll be announced this afternoon


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Bit torn, really wan't to see Munster turn over Racing at the weekend and a citing with question marks over Killer would make this task an awful lot harder.

    At the same time, you can't stamp on another persons face for any reason.

    I think if he isn't cited then the IRFU are running the risk of a Marler like situation where the IRB intervene and insist on one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,012 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    Ah to be fair (and just to reiterate I think he's deserving of a ban) I can't see the IRB intervening on this if its left slide.

    In the event of a citing, I can imagine Cronin saying something like 'wasn't aware ball was out, didn't see the player beneath me' and getting a few weeks.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,006 ✭✭✭Moflojo


    12 week ban for Cronin. Full statement here.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭NiallBoo


    leakyboots wrote: »
    Ah to be fair (and just to reiterate I think he's deserving of a ban) I can't see the IRB intervening on this if its left slide.

    Agreed, world rugby stepped in because the marler incident had the potential to cause a big stink on wider media - failing to cite for stamping will only annoy rugby fans.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    leakyboots wrote: »
    Ah to be fair (and just to reiterate I think he's deserving of a ban) I can't see the IRB intervening on this if its left slide.

    In the event of a citing, I can imagine Cronin saying something like 'wasn't aware ball was out, didn't see the player beneath me' and getting a few weeks.

    You're most likely correct.

    I do remember the IRFU getting a lot of criticism over the O'Connell issue. The fact that there wasn't even a citing hearing at the time drew quite a few column inches. The IRB having recently demonstrated a willingness to step in where a national governing body has not acted is note worthy but then again it was in relation to racism which drew media attention from outside the sports pages.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,303 ✭✭✭daithi7


    Moflojo wrote: »
    12 week ban for Cronin. Full statement here.

    Ha,ha, very good. :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,514 ✭✭✭BoardsMember


    Just looking at the highlights, the defense in the corner for the Nacewa try off the 5 yard scrum really was appalling.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,333 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    You're most likely correct.

    I do remember the IRFU getting a lot of criticism over the O'Connell issue. The fact that there wasn't even a citing hearing at the time drew quite a few column inches. The IRB having recently demonstrated a willingness to step in where a national governing body has not acted is note worthy but then again it was in relation to racism which drew media attention from outside the sports pages.

    The Pro12 citing process is completely different now. Back then it was up to the individual unions to cite one of their players. Now the League has a citing commissioner who is independent of the unions.


  • Site Banned Posts: 2,055 ✭✭✭Adbrowne




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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Finally got around to watching the game back. One interesting and important stat. The first time that Leinster got into an attacking position and gave up possession and territory to Munster without getting a score was the 79th minute. Up to then every time Leinster got into a position to score they didn't let up until they had. They did turn ball over a few times but Munster never really got out of their half until Leinster got points on the board. Ultimately that was the difference between the sides. Munster couldn't convert and Leinster were a lot more ruthless. We got unlucky a couple of times and were a little careless others but it's a good sign that we kept at it until we got the scoreboard moving.

    For all the grief he got Wilkinson was perfectly fine. A few mistakes but nothing to get worked up over. Communicated well and was pretty consistent.

    Leinsters breakdown work annoyed me on the day. We didn't really contest, but that was plainly deliberate. We allowed Munster to have the ball and backed our defence to keep them out. Too often Munster moved the ball across the line without fixing anyone and our line just faded across to make the tackles.

    Our forwards were very workman like on the day. Got the job done with minimal fuss. But they all delivered. Our back line showed glimpses of what they can do. Sexton was excellent, Henshaw was impressive given his debut after injury, Isa was looking a bit more like the Isa of old and Ringrose was pure class. His footwork and composure on the ball is something. The way he can glide past defenders or shrug off tackles (it wasn't just Earls, he sent POM flying in the first half too) and his defence are all great qualities he has.

    For all the people knocking Rob he did very little wrong and I saw nothing more from Zebo to suggest he should be ahead of Rob in the pecking order for Ireland. ROL wasn't great, but that's to be expected and he did seem to settle into things more in the second half. I want to see more of him on the wing when Ringrose is at 13.

    For Munster I thought Stander worked his socks off, but the guy needs help. He can't carry the team against better sides. POM looked wrecked after 30 mins. Hopefully he's eased back in over the next few weeks. Murray was average enough unfortunately (we're all allowed bad games) but Bleyendaal has a lot of work to do to convince. Sweetnam too is still a bit raw. He got badly caught for our first. It was as telegraphed as possible. We did it once but the ref got in the way. So we shaped to do it a second time and still Sweetnam got sucked in when he needed to hold his width.

    Overall pretty happy with the game and the result. Leinster could have gotten the 4th try had they been a bit more efficient at times, but they never really looked like they got out of second gear. There's more in this team, and as our midfield develop some familiarity we should start to see that more and more.


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,937 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Did the player who called the ref a "f**king eejit" get into any kind of trouble or did they let it slide?


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Did the player who called the ref a "f**king eejit" get into any kind of trouble or did they let it slide?

    Wilkinson didnreact to it but I've no idea who it was or if they were in fact referring to the ref.

    Although you can be sure it was Sexton. :pac:


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,937 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Wilkinson didnreact to it but I've no idea who it was or if they were in fact referring to the ref.

    Although you can be sure it was Sexton. :pac:

    Maybe he agreed with the assessment of him on that particular incident :)

    It was definitely a "Dublin" accent anyway. I felt you could hear a lot more than usual from players during this match so it's possible it wasn't the ref's mic it was picked up on and/or he didn't hear it.


  • Site Banned Posts: 2,055 ✭✭✭Adbrowne


    molloyjh wrote: »
    .For Munster I thought Stander worked his socks off, but the guy needs help. He can't carry the team against better sides.

    Stander had 22 carries but a lot of them were into traffic. He beat 1 defender. Ringrose and Henshaw had 25 carries between them and beat 10 defenders. It summed up the game perfectly. Leinster didnt get drawn into an arm wrestle. I think Munster need to reassess how they use Stander. He isnt the quickest around but he is no slouch so maybe they need to look at getting him carrying away from the breakdown instead of close to it.

    Stander and Holland were Munsters biggest ball carriers and a lot of it suited Leinster as it was predictable . Leinster backrow Just slow it down even concede a yard or two over the gainline but the defence was set. Quick line speed and force an error. Leinster were getting the ball to the centres and out wider and made yards far easier.


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