The One About Optimum Strategies for Co-Op Content...

dudeeile · 05-08-2016 4:49pm

SolvableKnave wrote: »

Excellent post Dude. If I may add a caveat, ToM is not a dead cert requirement unless your a Titan. I only use ToM when I'm running Titan as the two Titans will drop the Ogres quick smart, leaving the Platformers to concentrate on Snipers and their Knights. Any other primary is hunky dory for clearing adds and shade.

I use ToM most of the time at the sisters and Oryx, out of habit probably although the odd time I might use the raid pulse. The ease of not having to reload and the DPS it puts out is excellent. I think having 4 ToM at Oryx makes it that little bit easier to be honest, no chance of not putting enough damage on him.

The only time I definitely won't have it is when I'm running as I'll be using raid pulse, raid sniper and Raze-Lighter.

There are other options if you want to use Sleeper Simulant or Black Spindle or any other weapons for that matter but you need to be sure the team can put enough DPS into his belly especially for the 2 left in the centre while the others are detonating bombs. If the Titan is using ToM and the runner is using the raid guns then constant DPS is ensured.

PetKing · 06-08-2016 10:55am

Great post dude. My two cents is that If like to see the BoL bubble abandoned in the shade. Think most people can handle themselves in there now, and DPS is good/quick enough that it's not needed. Nothing worse than being stuck with no bubble for start of next phase.

OptimusTractor · 06-08-2016 11:21am

PetKing wrote: »

Great post dude. My two cents is that If like to see the BoL bubble abandoned in the shade. Think most people can handle themselves in there now, and DPS is good/quick enough that it's not needed. Nothing worse than being stuck with no bubble for start of next phase.

DPS is also quicker when you're not blocked by a purple dome.

Generic Dreadhead · 26-09-2016 11:20am

So for anyone wondering what weapons to bring into the raid at 365 or whatever

Dead Orbit Shotty - a Lot of fights are close range, and the fact it does Void damage is good for major captains
Event Horizon/Devils Dawn Sniper - High Impact, good roll, good for final boss, 1st area and for death zamboni
Raze Lighter exotic sword - MELTS Scorch cannon captains, 3rd person view is a big help.
G-Horn - Boss DPS in general

Basically use exotic heavies for the whole raid, change between sword/g-horn depending on your role

Best Armour for raid:
Helm Sait 14
Obsidian Mind
Skyburners Annex
Impossible Machines
Ruin Wings

Mitch Connor · 26-09-2016 11:23am

for the void warlock - I found nothing manacles very good in the first two boss fights. Having two grenade charges, which track the enemy and proc health/shield regen when I kill something with them was extremely useful. I felt that more helpful than having my Nova more often.

EDIT: And a grenade kill increases the recharge rate of the grenades too. Very good on mob/thrash control.

Generic Dreadhead · 26-09-2016 11:27am

Mitch Connor wrote: »

more helpful than having my Nova more often.

Well..... I guess it's all out in the open now isn't it

Mitch Connor · 26-09-2016 11:28am

Cormac... wrote: »

Well..... I guess it's all out in the open now isn't it

In fairness, if I suicided a lot, and thus my super wasn't generating I might go with Obsidian Mind to counter that.... but I prefer to try stay alive for encounters.

Kimbot · 26-09-2016 11:31am

Mitch Connor wrote: »

In fairness, if I suicided a lot, and thus my super wasn't generating I might go with Obsidian Mind to counter that.... but I prefer to try stay alive for encounters.

So you double nade while nev blue orbs for his super? :P

Generic Dreadhead · 26-09-2016 11:31am

Mitch Connor wrote: »

In fairness, if I suicided a lot, and thus my super wasn't generating I might go with Obsidian Mind to counter that.... but I prefer to try stay alive for encounters.

Dreadaxe confimed there is an invisible wall at the top of the final boss area on Saturday. Terry was witness

Generic Dreadhead · 26-09-2016 11:38am

Also, Sleeper Simulant is better than Swords and GHorn for the final boss apparently

Mitch Connor · 26-09-2016 11:44am

Cormac... wrote: »

Also, Sleeper Simulant is better than Swords and GHorn for the final boss apparently

Wonder if i'd be better off with a 364 Sleeper or 369 Gally.

Generic Dreadhead · 26-09-2016 11:46am

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Wonder if i'd be better off with a 364 Sleeper or 369 Gally.

I'd stick with the G-Horn. Reset tomorrow and it's overall handier for the raid. SS is only handy for final boss really (maybe 1st boss too, but he's easy peasy)

Generic Dreadhead · 26-09-2016 11:56am

So, for anyone looking to go into the Raid and wants guides. Here's some guides.

Generic Dreadhead · 04-10-2016 10:54am

Here's kind of a small change we can implement easy enough for any groups raiding with myself.
It's a no brainer when you think about it, I mean we do 90% of this anyway

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/55mumf/a_year_ago_we_encouraged_the_no_knight_strat_for/

Empowerment handling on the phase 2 Aksis fight.

The current method many are using
Right now most groups I join have the three empowered players immediately move around to cover left/mid/right and they are the assigned bomb throwers.
But this creates a couple of issues:
You need to switch non-empowered people about to ensure that each side has two people, i.e. left has two empowered, right has none, left and right both send one person to the other side
People are switching about whilst there are shanks and captains shooting, and the guys not moving can get overwhelmed
People need to be ready to be the orb thrower, or the canoneer, so you need to know what you are doing for both roles
You also need to be familiar with positioning on all three sides (where to stand to not get shot by the boss/shanks/captains)
Some of these may seem like petty points but believe me, in a fight that can be quite frantic you want as few points of failure as possible.

The better way
Assign specific roles to everyone: you're left bomb thrower, you're left canoneer, etc.
Instead of immediately switching people when the empowered buff is handed out, call out who is empowered each side ('left/mid/right empowered') and if there are two empowered players on the same side, the canoneer moves to the side with no empowered players after has has killed his servitor.
The benefits of this:
You're in the same place, doing the same thing, for the whole fight, making it easier to learn
No messy switching players around while there are still shanks and captains to be dealt with
Only one player will need to move!
You can assign canons to your most experienced/highest light players so that those that must move know the fight and will do a good job of stunning the boss and DPSing him with the canons
The only possible downside of this technique is that potentially an empowered canoneer has to go from mid to left to kill his servitor and then is needed to cover the plate on the right for stuns, but to counter this before you throw the last orb just check 'are all the empowered players in position?' and then throw.
I've cleared the raid nine times now, always with mostly players from LFG and I see the current preferred method cause issues time and again, and after I explain this method things go a lot more smoothly.
Give it a shot, feel free to critique below.

TL:DR; Assign permanent positions/jobs to everyone. If two empowered players are on the same side, the canoneer covers the side with no empowered after he kills his servitor.

EDIT: Please note that this was written with newbies and inexperienced/low skill guardians in mind. A method that mitigates as much risk as possible. Yes there are other methods, yes some of you bad asses can practically solo it. A few have suggsted 'have the empowered people pick up the cannon because the servitor they kill will dictate which side they are responsible for', and that sounds even better to me - so long as everyone is comfortable handling canons and bombs.

Mickeroo · 04-10-2016 11:00am

I'm surprised people are doing it the first way tbh, second way is much simpler.

SolvableKnave · 04-10-2016 11:03am

Haven't dipped my toes into phase 2 yet, but it does make sense to have as few people as possible roaming around.

Kimbot · 04-10-2016 11:06am

Cormac... wrote: »

Here's kind of a small change we can implement easy enough for any groups raiding with myself.
It's a no brainer when you think about it, I mean we do 90% of this anyway

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/55mumf/a_year_ago_we_encouraged_the_no_knight_strat_for/

Thats how I have been doing it all along. If you have the raid gear it makes even more sense getting the cannon holders to swap and bomb throwers always stay the same as the cannon holders have higher agility etc.

Generic Dreadhead · 04-10-2016 11:09am

SolvableKnave wrote: »

Haven't dipped my toes into phase 2 yet, but it does make sense to have as few people as possible roaming around.

Yes. There's a very definite benefit to sticking to your role. Only really need to change/move if someone dies and you need to throw 2 bombs

Generic Dreadhead · 04-10-2016 11:11am

jonnycivic wrote: »

Thats how I have been doing it all along. If you have the raid gear it makes even more sense getting the cannon holders to swap and bomb throwers always stay the same as the cannon holders have higher agility etc.

Highest Light Level Cannon Holders without Boots > Low Light Level with Raid Boots

So like if you have 3 players 378 and 3 players 362, give the cannons to the best lads for Boss DPS. The boots are a nice to have, but you should (at this stage anyway, if you have gotten cannon practice in) have plenty of time to get your house in order

SolvableKnave · 04-10-2016 11:12am

Cormac... wrote: »

Yes. There's a very definite benefit to sticking to your role. Only really need to change/move if someone dies and you need to throw 2 bombs

The raid itself is very forgiving compared to KF. It's a nice change of pace, knowing that even if 1 or 2 go down (like what happened at Vosik the other night) the situation is not lost.

Kimbot · 04-10-2016 11:14am

Cormac... wrote: »

Highest Light Level Cannon Holders without Boots > Low Light Level with Raid Boots

So like if you have 3 players 378 and 3 players 362, give the cannons to the best lads for Boss DPS. The boots are a nice to have, but you should (at this stage anyway, if you have gotten cannon practice in) have plenty of time to get your house in order

Yeah thats how we done it with Fats last week too

he gave us a few good pointers

Generic Dreadhead · 04-10-2016 11:14am

SolvableKnave wrote: »

The raid itself is very forgiving compared to KF. It's a nice change of pace, knowing that even if 1 or 2 go down (like what happened at Vosik the other night) the situation is not lost.

I agree and I like that.

Kings Fall was not very welcome to bring newbies or Low level players in for.

I mean as long as 3-4 of you have your stuff together for WotM, it can be fairly handy bringing some inexperienced players.

That'll probably change when we get hard mode, and if/when we get some challenge modes

jonnycivic wrote: »

Yeah thats how we done it with Fats last week too he gave us a few good pointers

Didn't ye have a VAST gulf in Light Level between like 2-3 of the team and the rest though? I mean, that was a no-brainer then

nevelator · 04-10-2016 11:15am

For me the 2 most important things with the boss (other than empowered call-outs) are:
Breaking line of sight with the boss. If he can't see you, you won't have to deal with that siva swarm.
Clearing out all the ads before taking down the captains.

Mickeroo · 04-10-2016 11:16am

nevelator wrote: »

For me the 2 most important things with the boss (other than empowered call-outs) are:
Breaking line of sight with the boss. If he can't see you, you won't have to deal with that siva swarm.
Clearing out all the ads before taking down the captains.

Yeah and the ability to multi task and adjust to a few people going down/empowerment changes. Call outs are fairly important in this one.

Mitch Connor · 04-10-2016 11:17am

nevelator wrote: »

For me the 2 most important things with the boss (other than empowered call-outs) are:
Breaking line of sight with the boss. If he can't see you, you won't have to deal with that siva swarm.
Clearing out all the ads before taking down the captains.

and not swapping (if required) until AFTER your captain has been dealt with.

Also, try not to be a warlock. Stupid fecking stupid warlock floaty jump AAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHH.

Generic Dreadhead · 04-10-2016 11:17am

nevelator wrote: »

For me the 2 most important things with the boss (other than empowered call-outs) are:
Breaking line of sight with the boss. If he can't see you, you won't have to deal with that siva swarm.
Clearing out all the ads before taking down the captains.

For me the most important thing with the final boss is...

Generic Dreadhead · 04-10-2016 11:19am

Mitch Connor wrote: »

and not swapping (if required) until AFTER your captain has been dealt with.

Also, try not to be a warlock. Stupid fecking stupid warlock floaty jump AAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHH.

Gonna just put it in bold unless it has not already been brought to your attention 15+ times.

YOU'RE STILL RUNNING FOCUSED BURST!!!

:pac:

Kimbot · 04-10-2016 11:34am

Cormac... wrote: »

Didn't ye have a VAST gulf in Light Level between like 2-3 of the team and the rest though? I mean, that was a no-brainer then

No there was only about 2-3 levels between most of us when fats hopped in

PetKing · 04-10-2016 11:50am

Mitch Connor wrote:

and not swapping (if required) until AFTER your captain has been dealt with.

As an empowered bomb thrower, I don't move until after I've thrown my bomb.

PetKing · 04-10-2016 11:50am

Mitch Connor wrote:

and not swapping (if required) until AFTER your captain has been dealt with.

As an empowered bomb thrower, I don't move until after I've thrown my bomb.

The One About Optimum Strategies for Co-Op Content...

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