Wife v stepdaughter

Judge Trudy · 28-09-2016 05:25PM

Your daughter really needs you in this situation. She is your flesh and blood after all. Did your wife not know you had another daughter and understood the situation? I have a child from a previous relationship and my partner loves her like his own. Only this morning he was telling me that she was telling him how much she loves him and how chuffed he was. I couldn't be with him if he hadn't accepted her from the get go. Your wife needs to be more understanding and accepting.

CelticRambler · 28-09-2016 05:51PM

seamus wrote: »

Your wife has to agree to a trial period. She is understandably protective of her two girls, but at the cost of the happiness of your little girl. You need to put it in absolute terms - if she doesn't agree to this, then you're going to leave and find a place to live and raise your child alone.

Three children with two separated, but loving parents is better than two children in a happy home and a third child cast asunder with the knowledge that her family doesn't want her.

Then go to see your daughter. Take a week off, get a hotel and spend the time with her. Explain to her that she's getting a new start in life and that's going to require change. That's it's going to be tough, there's going to be arguments, but that she's being brought into a family who want nothing but the best for her, and she can't do whatever she used to do.
She is a child, but she's old enough to understand that actions come with consequences.

Assuming your wife has agreed to the trial period, have your wife come over for the weekend. Have the 3 of your spend time together without the other two girls so that your wife can interact with your daughter outside of her ultra-protective mother mode.

Speaking as a father who's had to deal with some of this stuff, and from what's been said already, I'd opt for a faster, more definitive variation of the plan above. The first - most important - decision is easy: say "yes" to your eldest daughter joining the rest of the family, then set about making it happen.

If your wife isn't immediately ready to accept the girl, then I'd arrange accommodation for her wherever you are now (hotel or b&b, or even nearby friends) so that she, your daugther was in no doubt that you were taking care of her. During that time, you'd explain to her that she was going to have to face a lot of changes in her life, including school/friends/weather/shopping/etc, and you'd be counting on her to deal with these in a mature way.

I would most certainly tell her outright that your wife had a problem (if you know what it is - what it really is - then tell your daughter) and that you could only really make things work if she was prepared to make a lot of concessions in the early days of her new family life.

After that, I'd have no compunction about using/getting the other two girls to join the effort to persuade their mother to accept their (half)sister as a full member of the family, all the while being careful that whatever it is that's unsettled your wife is dealt with in a sensitive way, e.g. don't let your eldest daughter start taking the younger girls clothes shopping or have them pigging out on junk food, if these are things that their mother's always controlled before.

Having seen a couple of my nieces (8 and 10) start to "cause trouble" for their highly-organised mother simply by having a difference of opinion as to what to do during a very short holiday, I wonder if your wife is really prepared for her own daughters' adolescence and the "attitude" that comes with it. You'll need to be careful no to let your daughter get the blame for what was going to happen anyway, so if at all possible, try to get someone else involved as a referee - e.g. a good neighbour (with children) or a parent of another child in the school.

Moonbeam · 28-09-2016 05:56PM

Is your wife a stay at home mother? what do your 2 other daughters think?
I can't help but feel for this child in the UK,we don't know what her mothers issues are but they must be serious and the poor little thing has to live with that and a dad that doesn't know if he wants her or not.

I think the question you need to ask is more How do I approach this? How do I deal with it?

claregal1 · 28-09-2016 06:04PM

Put yourself in your daughter's shoes - she has already faced massive changes in her home life by being on foster care and being separated from her Mother and now her Father is unsure as to whether or not he will allow her to live with him and his new family ......

Glass fused light · 28-09-2016 06:43PM

Some people on here must be single children, and had very blissful childhoods, grown up in either a patriarch or a matriarch controlled traditional family unit. The OP's posts are all about the OP; being forced into looking after his child by the social worker; by being forced to choose between his children, by being forced to choose between his child and wife; not how can he find a workable solution.

The OP has chosen to enter a second relationship with an existing child. The OP has chosen to partner with someone who either always had issues with the family relationship or has since developed issues.
The OP has chosen to have two more children with a partner and failed, for what ever reason, to manage the relationship between his existing child (his prior and ongoing obligation to care for her) and his current partner and her children.

The primary responsibility of nurturing the daughter/wife relationship always belonged with the OP.

He is informing his daughter that her living within his current 'family unit' is solely down to his wife's choice. He is delivering an ultimatum to his wife; via his first child's social worker!; that he is leaving and if it suits her, he'll take the other two too. And people are cheering from the sidelines not wondering why his current partner is worried?

Anyone who thinks that the two other children will just accept their sibling without the active support and encouragement of both their parents are living in LaLa land; and if their world falls apart they will blame their sibling not their parents.

If the child is moving from the UK to Ireland, what is the Irish social worker doing to provide support for the move, and what is the OP doing to put a support system in place. This decision and the process of merging all the members into a single family unit can't happen overnight and will not happen at all unless the OP steps up and takes ownership of the communication needed to putting a solution in place. Even if it will not happen, that is down to both adults not just the wife, and if this happens they should then both act as grown-ups and manage the solution to be in the best interest of all the children.

The wife is going to be a co-parent and will have to deal with the "your not my Mam and You can't tell me ..." Whats the game plan to deal with this. Communication is not happening in the adult relationship, as they could not agree and communicate ground rules for the child's last visit, and they are not working together to resolve the current crisis. So how is the OP going to deal with three children who have 'lost' a parent from their lives

Calhoun · 28-09-2016 09:33PM

Glass fused light wrote: »

Some people on here must be single children, and had very blissful childhoods, grown up in either a patriarch or a matriarch controlled traditional family unit. The OP's posts are all about the OP; being forced into looking after his child by the social worker; by being forced to choose between his children, by being forced to choose between his child and wife; not how can he find a workable solution.

The OP has chosen to enter a second relationship with an existing child. The OP has chosen to partner with someone who either always had issues with the family relationship or has since developed issues.
The OP has chosen to have two more children with a partner and failed, for what ever reason, to manage the relationship between his existing child (his prior and ongoing obligation to care for her) and his current partner and her children.

The primary responsibility of nurturing the daughter/wife relationship always belonged with the OP.

He is informing his daughter that her living within his current 'family unit' is solely down to his wife's choice. He is delivering an ultimatum to his wife; via his first child's social worker!; that he is leaving and if it suits her, he'll take the other two too. And people are cheering from the sidelines not wondering why his current partner is worried?

Anyone who thinks that the two other children will just accept their sibling without the active support and encouragement of both their parents are living in LaLa land; and if their world falls apart they will blame their sibling not their parents.

If the child is moving from the UK to Ireland, what is the Irish social worker doing to provide support for the move, and what is the OP doing to put a support system in place. This decision and the process of merging all the members into a single family unit can't happen overnight and will not happen at all unless the OP steps up and takes ownership of the communication needed to putting a solution in place. Even if it will not happen, that is down to both adults not just the wife, and if this happens they should then both act as grown-ups and manage the solution to be in the best interest of all the children.

The wife is going to be a co-parent and will have to deal with the "your not my Mam and You can't tell me ..." Whats the game plan to deal with this. Communication is not happening in the adult relationship, as they could not agree and communicate ground rules for the child's last visit, and they are not working together to resolve the current crisis. So how is the OP going to deal with three children who have 'lost' a parent from their lives

Child of divorce actually and i think your looking into this in a bit more detail than any of the rest of us.

First off has the OP actually informed his wife of any ultimatum at this time? from what i can see he is looking into his options it would be good practice if he was to move out that he would have a place to go when he had custody of the children. This is Ireland he will not be entitled to custody automatically for his younger two daughters and will have to have a place to go if he wants visitation with them over the weekend.

Second, his other two daughters will have to get over it. They may well blame their sibling but the OP still has a responsibility to them.

Third the remaining bits and pieces are logistics that i am sure if the OP responds again he might fill in for us but none of it should get in the way of deciding stepping up and being a father to his daughter in the UK.

Finally how does a divorce in 2016 Ireland equate to losing either parent? Are one of them going to die?

Evd-Burner · 28-09-2016 11:59PM

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Yes I did think that through. He has 3 children, 1 of which who is potentially being left to the 'system' to be raised, that in my eyes is completely unacceptable. Leaving his wife does not necessarily translate into him leaving his other 2 children, he should still very much be apart of their lives also. At the end of the day there is a child here in need, as a parent he should do whatever is in his power to better that child's life.

mickotoole · 29-09-2016 12:19AM

A question... It's your daughter the product of an affair? If so it explains your wife's feelings towards her step daughter. It certainly dies not condone it though.

Ask your wife, if the two of you separated and anything happened to her would she want your two kids going into care or would she want you to care for them? If she is honest with you and herself she should see how selfish she is being.

Good luck OP, this is a very difficult situation. I hope that your wife can see sense and that you can all move forward as a family.

Glass fused light · 29-09-2016 12:48AM

Calhoun wrote: »

Second, his other two daughters will have to get over it. They may well blame their sibling but the OP still has a responsibility to them.

This is kind of my point, will they get over the fact that Daddy left them for his other child? His first child is facing this prospect, she may be able to rationalise that she has been taken from her mother. But she knows Daddy has to make a choice, the two others will figure that out too.

How about all the adults taking that on board and working from there.

Calhoun wrote: »

Child of divorce
(snip)
Finally how does a divorce in 2016 Ireland equate to losing either parent? Are one of them going to die?

As a someone who will/(may) have grown up in a dual family household situation, I would suggest that you have been in situations where you realise how the poor actions of waring parents could damage the parental bond, and that not all loss arises from death.

Calhoun wrote: »

First off has the OP actually informed his wife of any ultimatum at this time? from what i can see he is looking into his options it would be good practice if he was to move out that he would have a place to go when he had custody of the children. This is Ireland he will not be entitled to custody automatically for his younger two daughters and will have to have a place to go if he wants visitation with them over the weekend.

Second, his other two daughters will have to get over it. They may well blame their sibling but the OP still has a responsibility to them.

Third the remaining bits and pieces are logistics that i am sure if the OP responds again he might fill in for us but none of it should get in the way of deciding stepping up and being a father to his daughter in the UK.

I am not asking that the OP fills us in on all the little bits and pieces, he can share or not. I am offering a suggestion that communication and getting the system to work with his existing family setup is a better starting point.

Should he step up? Yes, be a parent, but its crazy for anyone to suggest that his first option should be dump the wife and other children without looking for a middle ground.

He needs to act in the best interest of all his children, and aiming for that as a starting point? I am assuming that when it comes to raising a family he and his wife share some core values and that his first child would benefit from being in a family environment which support these values. If the social worker is claiming that they have no obligation once Daddy and child gets on the plane leaving her mother and social structures behind, where does that leave the child? She is in a much less beneficial situation, being moved to a new country to live in a single parent household, where the parent has to split their focus between the child and dealing with a marriage breakdown, and probably parental alienation with his two other children.

Part of growing up in a family is learning to communicate and compromise. If the adults can't work out how to at least try to find a way forward everyone looses. After all if his marriage collapses, social services should not allow him to move back to Ireland without proving that he can provide proper care, including accommodation, for his child, as his wife is occupying their current home. Plus I suspect that if his wife is willing to leave him rather than let her two be influenced by his first child, week-end visitation are unlikely.

The child has been placed in care as the social services have examined her home life and deemed it unsuitable. If the OP genuinely and honestly assesses the child's needs and realises that specialist care/help is needed, her needs are better served by remaining where she is in the short term. Whether this is resulting from the mother's issues or the child's, is only important in that the child will need different support transitioning into a new living arrangement, and that's the social worker's job, not offload her care on to an unprepared parent.

In fact if the OP can persuade his wife that they can work together with social services to make it work, as a couple and as a family, everyone wins.

LegacyUser · 29-09-2016 02:01AM

It is time for you to man up as they say.

The reality is you have spent very little time with this child. Her home life in the Uk has not been good and it could be for any number of reasons why she can't stay with her mother. Both you and your wife are the adults here and you need to realise that your daughter has to come first now.
You need to go to the Uk and speak to the social workers to find out what has been happening in her life. You need to spend time with your daughter and get to know her. Let her know your going to be their for her and that she will be coming to live with you in Ireland.

Your wife need to spend time with your daughter in the Uk also without your other children. If your daughter needs some counselling or supports I would get the social worker in the uk to contact your local camhs service in Ireland.

Your daughter is now 12 and she has been through a lot. She needs your help and support now and not to be left in the care system in the Uk. The reality is yes your wife may not like this but the reality is she knew you had a child before she married you.
She also needs to accept the fact that some times life does not go according to plan but you have to make the best of the situation you find yourself in. The reality is that this child is your daughter and she needs her father now.

She needs to move into a home where she is welcome and supported to help her become a decent adult. I know it may not be easy but in 10 to 15 years time do you want to see her in a bad situation in the Uk or living in Ireland with qualifications, a good job and a happy life.

Calhoun · 29-09-2016 02:03AM

Thanks for responding, i see what your saying now and it makes allot of sense.

Water John · 29-09-2016 10:01AM

I know a good few families where one parent has a child from a previous relationship and OH whom they then marry, accepts both fully. Some go on to have children of their own, one I know does not.
Its not particularly hard to become the parent to a child that is not yours biologically. I think both parents here must step up. This girl will be 18 in 6 years time and may then leave the nest. that's not a lifetime and will quickly pass, but it is a vital time for this girl.
Its his wife's choice as to whether this man ends up living separately and being father to three children or all doing it under the one roof. She needs positive help in coming to the right conclusion. Over judging her does not help in any way.

CelticRambler · 29-09-2016 12:58PM

One gets the impression that some contributors to this thread aren't reading what's been written by the OP. Nowhere has he said that he's on the point of leaving his current wife, so there's no blame to be thrown at him for something he hasn't done. :rolleyes:

Secondly, he's said that his eldest daughter wants to join her half-sisters, and he's said that the Irish sisters get on (very?) well with their estranged half-sister.

So their are four individuals involved that have no problem, and one who would appear to be acting unreasonably. There's obviously some backstory there that we haven't heard about, and maybe the OP doesn't even know why it's such a problem for his wife, but FFS stop trying to crucify for actually asking for ideas and opinions before he's made any decision. :frown:

Having thought about this overnight, and assuming their aren't any "toxic adolescent" issues to deal with, I think the most effective solution would be for the OP to find a 'not-really' foster home for the eldest daughter in his own locality, so that she can start a new life in Ireland as soon as possible, have as much contact as possible with her dad and her siblings, and MrsOP can be shown that she doesn't have anything to worry about.

Speedwell · 29-09-2016 01:09PM

Loveinapril wrote: »

To be fostered, he would actually have to sign his daughter over to the care of the HSE. To me this does not make sense when he loves his kid and is capable of caring for her. Why would he put his daughter through being a 'care kid'? He could also get very little say in where she would end up due to shortages in foster carers. Or are you talking about him asking a relative or friend to parent his already vulnerable daughter in a new country? This would be hugely damaging to the girl. She has a father capable of caring for her. Its the wife who has the problem.

Yes, this exactly. What a horrible message it sends to the daughter: "Here, honey, I love you and want you to be taken care of, so I'm going to give you up to strangers to do it in a random home separate from the one I share with the family I actually want to stay with".

sillysmiles · 29-09-2016 05:18PM

CelticRambler wrote: »

assuming their aren't any "toxic adolescent" issues to deal with

Someone further up mentioned about the wife setting the houserules and the daughter having to abide by them and combined with you mentioning adolescence it got me thinking that the OP needs to prepare himself and his family for life after she moves in.
There are going to be adolescent issues to deal with. The daughter is probably going to be incredibly upset - her whole life is being turned upside down.
Putting pressue on a pre-teen in a f*cked up situation to not act out is ridiculous.
The OP needs to get himself some help and support for when she does move in with them as she is going to push him and act out and rebel and he will need to show her that no matter what he is there for her.

CelticRambler · 29-09-2016 05:22PM

The OP said he needs to make a decision within a couple of days. I think we can all agree that that's not at all ideal, but if the UK social services are already involved, I can well understand that everything will be taken out of his hands and his daughter will disappear into the system regardless of what better options are available.

There's no point in the OP trying to force his wife to change her mind in two days if she's dead set against having the girl come to live in the family home - that'll only cause complications for everyone, probably sooner rather than later. But there's every chance the wife will change her attitude with a bit of gentle persuasion. Even so, that could take two or three months or longer.

That leaves the OP with two choices, either he abandons the family home and goes over to the UK to look after his daughter, staying in a hotel or wherever, giving all the wrong messages to his other two daughters, or he takes her to Ireland and has her stay somewhere nearby. Her life is already messed up; what the OP is looking for is a way to limit the mess long enough to find a better way (i.e. integrate her fully into a normal mammy-daddy-three children household) and it sounds like the best option is to get her over to Ireland and leading as much of a normal life as possible as quickly as possible.

If he can by-pass social services and come to some arrangement with a close family friend, that's bound to be better for him and his daughter than any other situation that involves to-ing and fro-ing. From how he's described his daughter, she sounds mature enough to understand that some kind of transitional agreement is needed, and from my own experience of teen/pre-teenage children, they're quite happy to accept these kind of 'off the record' solutions as long as they're fully informed of all the consequences.

The girl needs to be in school, she'd benefit from having close contact with her father and her half-sisters, so where she sleeps at night isn't going to be a deal-breaker. In the meantime, the OP can show his wife that he's taken account of her reservations, but he's not going to abandon any of his children. That's about the best compromise he can hope for in the time available.

CelticRambler · 29-09-2016 05:25PM

sillysmiles wrote: »

the OP needs to prepare himself and his family for life after she moves in.
There are going to be adolescent issues to deal with. The daughter is probably going to be incredibly upset - her whole life is being turned upside down.

I'd be more worried that the wife isn't prepared for it, and even if the eldest girl behaves impecably, she'll still get the blame when the other two go berserk as teenagers.

steved2010 · 29-09-2016 06:54PM

Dear OP,

Firstly get a vasectomy, you have a daughter who is at risk and I assume she has been in that situation for the best part of 12 years and you're looking for advice here...get a vasectomy.

You have failed that poor girl, if you haven't stepped up in 12 years clearly you don't have the ability, to do so now or in the future. You are a failure as a father, man, human........Now....slap yourself HARD in the face.......you can take two steps to get on the road to fixing this s h i t .......
1. Tell your wife you love her and you love you kids, and you can not stand by any longer (mind you you did for 12 years) and let your daughter suffer (seriously you're a f u c k i n g waste of oxygen).
2. Drive to the airport, jump on a plane and be the father that child needs.

Then you should probably get a vasectomy (seriously you're a f u c k i n g a s s h o l e!!!!!)

Penny Tration · 29-09-2016 07:00PM

Steve, OP did not fail his child for twelve years. She lived with her mum and he clearly had access since she's been to visit him.

He also WANTS to take his daughter in.

njs030 · 29-09-2016 07:01PM

steved2010 wrote: »

Dear OP,

Firstly get a vasectomy, you have a daughter who is at risk and I assume she has been in that situation for the best part of 12 years and you're looking for advice here...get a vasectomy.

You have failed that poor girl, if you haven't stepped up in 12 years clearly you don't have the ability, to do so now or in the future. You are a failure as a father, man, human........Now....slap yourself HARD in the face.......you can take two steps to get on the road to fixing this s h i t .......
1. Tell your wife you love her and you love you kids, and you can not stand by any longer (mind you you did for 12 years) and let your daughter suffer (seriously you're a f u c k i n g waste of oxygen).
2. Drive to the airport, jump on a plane and be the father that child needs.

Then you should probably get a vasectomy (seriously you're a f u c k i n g a s s h o l e!!!!!)

That's disgusting.
Obviously you haven't bothered to read the thread fully and see the post where he said he has a good relationship with his daughter.

January · 29-09-2016 07:05PM

Poster infrared for personal abuse.

steved2010 · 29-09-2016 07:08PM

Oh, he said he has a good relationship with his daughter....oh well that changes everything.

He got my vote for father of the year!!!

"My said daughter visited a couple of years ago".....is that acceptable ???

I have read the thread, and here is a guy who's daughter is in danger..clear danger...and he is asking for advice on a forum....he needs to get across to the UK and be there for his child.

steved2010 · 29-09-2016 07:14PM

Whilst I was harsh in my comments above...please take a few seconds to think about this poor 12 year old child who is in danger and potentially has been in that situation for a long long time. We have no idea why social services have advised she be removed from her mother's custody but I suspect social services would not take that decision lightly.

This child is at serious risk, she needs her Dad, (I suspect) the OP has not been there for her in the past and has not been a father to her....so right now he needs to slap himself in the face and be a man..be a dad.

Water John · 29-09-2016 07:52PM

Steve, you joined Boards 6 years ago. This seems to be one of very few posts you have done. Suggest you return to just being a spectator. You offer nothing positive to this man.

steved2010 · 29-09-2016 08:19PM

I appreciate that I was harsh suggesting the OP get a vasectomy, and the name calling, I acknowledged that above.

The bottom line is that right this very second there is a very frightened 12 year old girl who needs her Dad.

I'm angry, he should be there by her side...not posting on boards.ie, she is 12!!!! on her own, abandoned!!!!

Others on boards are posting advice like: "Your wife, should allow a trial period of all living together" she is not a pet, or a music streaming service, she is a child and needs stability.

Finally, for anyone who took offence for my comments above, I apologise....this topic is close to home and I have seen the outcome, of what happens when a child is abandoned.

Water John · 29-09-2016 08:50PM

Accepted Steve. However, the job of managing human relationships is tied to the key principle of non judgement. This is the way for best results and allows those involved taking ownership of the decisions they make.
Have some experience of difficult upbringing, so can empathise with your feelings. This is no help to the OP though.

bambay · 01-10-2016 02:53PM

The essence of 'stepdaughter' in the title is to avoid ambiguity and besides and besides, my wife is her step-mum, regardless. I am very much active in her life and did attend an impromptu meeting in the UK with regard to this matter. I cannot neglect any of my kids.

Markcheese · 01-10-2016 04:57PM

Is it possible to contact a councillor , and /or child psycholigist, with your wife, .. you cant force things with your wife..
Her issues here are real... as is your daughters situation... you need to work through things one way or the other with your wife.. what ever ye decide .
Ye are going to have to live afterwards with what ever decision ye collectivly make ...

Water John · 01-10-2016 11:17PM

I think Mark the OP has already decided. The problem is, his wife has not bought into the answer, yet perhaps.
So its not, lets consider this and make a decision together.

Agree though, that 3rd party involvement may be of help. Another point is I wonder is their a religious dimension to their lives and would, that be a help or provide guidance for the OP?

bambay · 02-10-2016 02:57PM

There is no need to trade insults here. All I need is opinions from responsible adults and you obviously, are not eligible to contribute.
You can keep your unsolicited advice to yourself.
Thank u.

Wife v stepdaughter

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