Wife v stepdaughter

bambay

Hi all, I am married with 2 girls just under 10 & reside in Ireland. I have a daughter in Uk who is 12+. She and her mum can't live together according to her social worker who called me to step up by bringing her to live with me but my wife vowed never to let that happen. My question is this: does the law support my wife or my daughter? She was temporarily given to a career & I don't want her adopted while I am alive. Pls I want lawful advice from experienced parents. Thanks

Teyla Emmagan

I don't think it's the law you need to deal with, it's your wife. Why doesn't she want your other daughter to come and live with you? She must have pretty strong reasons because it's a strange position IMO to take. You can't force her to raise the child though. If she is that adamant she could go off with your other two kids. Is your eldest daughter very difficult? If that is the case your wife may (fairly) think she would be a very disruptive influence on your home.

bambay

Thanks Teyla,
The truth of the matter is that my daughter and her mum are on the brink of being separated for good, according to the social worker and now she wants me to step-up. Much as I would love my daughter to live with me, my wife's resistance grows stronger by the day and even though I made the social worker aware of this, she still insists my child, like my other kids, has as much right to live with me. My wife wants her to be left in Foster care indefinitely but that is something I cannot condone while I am still alive.
My said daughter visited a couple of years ago and my wife had a fight with her because her upbringing was, according to my wife, in stark contrast with her children's and she says she does not want that influence on her kids. I am confused at to what to do next under the present circumstances. Do I bring my daughter in against my wife's wish and risk my marriage or allow my daughter to be eventually adopted and lose my biological parental rights and save my marriage?
I need more response at earliest convenience as I need to reach a decision in a couple of days. Is there any link that can enlighten me in this matter as far as family law is concerned?

Turtle_

Seriously? Your wife is 100% in the wrong. Your daughter is a child who needs her dad. Your wife needs to cop the f on to herself.

StupidLikeAFox

bambay wrote: »

Do I bring my daughter in against my wife's wish and risk my marriage or allow my daughter to be eventually adopted and lose my biological parental rights and save my marriage?
I need more response at earliest convenience as I need to reach a decision in a couple of days. Is there any link that can enlighten me in this matter as far as family law is concerned?

Im not sure what kind of family law you are looking for. Do you want to raise your own child or do you want to give her up for adoption?

Your wife's stance is coming across as very cold. She seems to be holding a personal grudge against a 12 year old. When she married you this daughter became part of her family too (in my opinion).

Turtle_

Btw, it's wife v daughter. She's your daughter, not your stepdaughter. Stop thinking of her as a stepdaughter and start thinking of her as the fully fledged member of your family she should be.

intheclouds

Im not really sure what you are looking for?

Who cares who the law supports? Morally the thing to do is to support your daughter, she is a child.

Why does your wife want you to turn away from your daughter?

You strike me as not very interested in your own daughters life. You don't want her permanently fostered so long as you're alive, and yet you are not willing to be an actual father to her?
You were a father to this child when your wife married you, therefore she married you knowing it wasn't just you.
She needs to grow up.
You can't pick and choose between your kids, if you have 3 kids, then you have 3 kids.
You daughter clearly needs a parent. Her relationship with her mother has broken down to the extent that social workers want them permanently separated, and your daughter to actually MOVE COUNTRIES! that is a massive thing in a teenagers life.
IMO, you need to worry less about the law and more about your moral obligations

Senna

Its a 12 year old girl, what ever problems she has can be fixed by being in a loving and caring home, your wife needs to understand a 12 year old deserves a chance at life and she can give it to her.
Let your wife set the ground rules and let your daughter know its a last chance.

If it was me, my daughter takes presidencies over my wife in a situation like this.

trixychic

You shouldn't really have to ask. She's your daughter. Your flesh and blood. Not only that but she sounds like she has had one he'll of an awful life.

I'm sorry but your wife sounds awful. This is your kid and she's in trouble!!! You need to be a father and rescue your little girl!!!

Speedwell

According to you it's great if she stays with a mother who hates her, but not so great if she stays with a stepmother who hates her and a father who doesn't. I wouldn't spare a drop of pee on the lot of you adults if you were on fire. I actually hope you lose your parental rights and your daughter finds a loving home with another family without the obstacle of having to answer to any of you ice-cold, irresponsible wasters. Of course, being a teenager, that is not super practical to expect, as I'm sure you're aware. Maybe she can sue for abandonment.

Penny Tration

Your child visited a couple of years ago and she and your wife had an argument?


So, your wife is holding a grudge against a young girl, YOUR DAUGHTER, a child, because of an argument she had with a TEN year old?


What the hell is wrong with your wife? That you're even considering allowing your daughter to be stuck into the care home system says a lot about you, but your wife is truly a bad person to refuse to allow you to take in your own child.



Maybe your daughter would be treated better in foster care than by that woman, but you as a father need to step the hell up and protect your child. You have three children, start treating them equally.

bambay

Thanks for all your contributions so far.
I love all my kids equally regardless of the circumstances surrounding their births and I really want her to live with us so I can bring her up the way i want. She loves to be with us as well only on the condition that her step-mum wants her because she obviously doesn't want to live where she is not wanted.
The problem is that my wife fails to see her as a family member probably because her mum is not my wife. No matter how bad my wife may think she is, she can be reformed especially under my watchful eyes and influence and besides, she is only 12. My wife sees her as 'another woman's child' that cannot be forced on her. I had a meeting recently with her social worker and was told they cant keep her for long because if it is deemed impossible to live with her mum as it seems now, she has to live with her dad as their job is to cater for the less privilege.

Baybay

Firstly, I have absolutely no personal experience of this situation so this is just an opinion.

While I feel very sorry for your predicament, you do need, as you say, to step up.
Unfortunately that means you'll all have to face some truths.
Your first wife/partner clearly, for whatever reasons, is now unfit to raise your daughter.
You don't say how well you know this child or how much you've been involved in her life but I think it's a good thing that you want her to be part of your family now. Your wife probably realises this too on some level but something in this child or her early influences scare her in relation to her daughters with you.
This can only be addressed by you.
Talk to her.
Think about what you want to say & recognise the negatives as well as the positives.
Give her options. Don't have two separate families in the house but maybe make it clear that until relations improve, you don't expect your wife to do very much other than assist your relationship to this presumably scared, defiant, upset, traumatised, geographically dispossessed pre-teen.
Social services, as they are involved, surely just won't release a child even to her father, without some kind of ongoing involvement. Use them. Perhaps there's some sort of interim arrangements that could be used. Maybe that you only have her at weekends until you all get more used to having her in your lives. Maybe you have family who could help.
I wish you all well. I hope it all works out.

Your wife really needs to grow up.
Another woman's child? She is your child, she is her husband's child, that should be her focus.
Maybe you need to get social workers together with your wife to talk this out.

Ask her how she would feel if something happened to her and the next girlfriend/ wife in your life didn't want her 2 kids around?

Penny Tration

Your wife is horrible. Seriously, did you not notice any of this nastiness before you married her?


Your wife can refuse to see her as family all she wants but that child is YOUR family, your daughter, your flesh and blood. Your wife knew going into marriage that you had a daughter, she can't now pick and choose when it suits her to have a stepdaughter.


Your two other kids deserve a relationship with their half sister, your daughter deserves a parent who loves her, and most importantly she deserves someone to finally step up, be a bloody adult and show her some care, love and take care of her because she's a little kid going through hell right now.

If your wife wants to divorce you because you're a father, let her. She's a terrible person anyway.

Penny Tration

Oh and one other thing to add, op - this is all over an argument she had with your daughter a few years ago, right?


So I'm going to assume your other children have never been cheeky, never answered your wife back, never argued with her, right? Cause by your wife's ridiculous logic, if they have, you should be tossing them into the care system too.

Speedwell

It's no wonder the child is a bit hard to handle when it's been made crystal clear to her how much her parents and stepparents resent her inconvenient existence and how ready they are to throw her to the wolves. My heart goes out to her. Being in care does not equal being cared about.

Baybay

I don't think telling the OP that his wife is horrible or that he's a bad guy is helpful.
She may be. I don't know. She may be jealous, scared, immature or just needing to bury her head in the sand. There may be things in the daughter's life that nobody would want visited on their smaller daughters.
This man came on here for whatever reason, to try to get things sorted, maybe even in his own head.
Maybe he is an awful person or a bad father but maybe he's just trying to do his best for all concerned.

December2012

Pick the child.

But maybe you can help your wife (and ultimately your kids) if you and your wife go talk to a family therapist

seamus

I don't believe any social worker can compel a parent to take their child in. Is the social worker calling you from the UK or Ireland?

I think your wife's position is understandable, but ultimately unreasonable and unfair. Perhaps if your estranged daughter was 16/17 and in constant trouble with the police, then maybe your wife would have a point. But she's 12. She's a child in every sense of the word, and whatever upbringing she previously had, she can still be brought around.

It's very hard for anyone here to tell you the right thing to do, because it's a very personal thing. I can only tell what I would do;

The primary concern here is the welfare of the 3 children. Your marriage and your relationship with your wife comes second. The happiness and the welfare of all 3 of your daughters comes before it.

With that in mind, your wife cannot put her foot down and insist that your other daughter go into care. Not when she has a (presumably) loving and caring parent ready and willing to look after her. Not to mention the fact that she has two half-sisters - family - living in the same home. She has a bad relationship with her mother, and a family across the water. Imagine how that child will grow up if she's told that she can choose to live with a horrible mother or go into care; that her family don't want her.

Your wife has to agree to a trial period. She is understandably protective of her two girls, but at the cost of the happiness of your little girl. You need to put it in absolute terms - if she doesn't agree to this, then you're going to leave and find a place to live and raise your child alone.

Three children with two separated, but loving parents is better than two children in a happy home and a third child cast asunder with the knowledge that her family doesn't want her.

Then go to see your daughter. Take a week off, get a hotel and spend the time with her. Explain to her that she's getting a new start in life and that's going to require change. That's it's going to be tough, there's going to be arguments, but that she's being brought into a family who want nothing but the best for her, and she can't do whatever she used to do.
She is a child, but she's old enough to understand that actions come with consequences.

Assuming your wife has agreed to the trial period, have your wife come over for the weekend. Have the 3 of your spend time together without the other two girls so that your wife can interact with your daughter outside of her ultra-protective mother mode.

If your wife has not agreed to the trial period and is putting her foot down, then start making plans to move out. Your wife is the one making this difficult, make it very clear to her that you're not abandoning your family, in fact you're doing your best to keep a hold of your family; she's the one being unreasonable.

That's just my 2c. That's what I would do.

groovyg

bambay wrote: »

Thanks Teyla,
The truth of the matter is that my daughter and her mum are on the brink of being separated for good, according to the social worker and now she wants me to step-up. Much as I would love my daughter to live with me, my wife's resistance grows stronger by the day and even though I made the social worker aware of this, she still insists my child, like my other kids, has as much right to live with me. My wife wants her to be left in Foster care indefinitely but that is something I cannot condone while I am still alive.
My said daughter visited a couple of years ago and my wife had a fight with her because her upbringing was, according to my wife, in stark contrast with her children's and she says she does not want that influence on her kids.

Op what is the relationship like between you and your daughter. You say she visited a few years ago how long ago was this? and how much contact have you had with her since? Have you visited her in the UK? Do you skype/talk to her to every week? I get the impression from your post that she hasn't been her since her last visit nor has she seen your wife.

To be honest if you haven't had a much of relationship with her, and your wife hasn't seen her/talked to her since she last visited I think its going to be a massive upheaval for your daughter to move over here.

bambay

Thanks to all of you once more,
Virtually everyone reasons along the same line with me. I will have another chat with her and if she remains adamant, I will have to get the social worker arrange a meeting with her where I might give her the options of either accepting my daughter or living with her daughters alone while I get a place for my daughter and myself, as a minor can not live on her own. And if it suits her, I can have all 3 children with me. This should be the worst case scenario.

RedXIV

bambay wrote: »

Thanks to all of you once more,
Virtually everyone reasons along the same line with me. I will have another chat with her and if she remains adamant, I will have to get the social worker arrange a meeting with her where I might give her the options of either accepting my daughter or living with her daughters alone while I get a place for my daughter and myself, as a minor can not live on her own. And if it suits her, I can have all 3 children with me. This should be the worst case scenario.

This is a very reassuring post OP and fair play to you for taking the steps in the tough, but right, correction.

I've a stepkid and it comes with it's own unique set of challenges but what always gets me through tough days is thinking "The kid needed a parent, and I was there for him". I know this is likely to lead to a hard time for you for the next while, but keep that thought in mind, a little girl needed her dad and you are pulling through for her. You get to be your little girl's hero and while it costs you a happiness at home, you'll be proud of your choices and everyone else who hears about it would be proud too.

Speedwell

bambay wrote: »

Thanks to all of you once more,
Virtually everyone reasons along the same line with me. I will have another chat with her and if she remains adamant, I will have to get the social worker arrange a meeting with her where I might give her the options of either accepting my daughter or living with her daughters alone while I get a place for my daughter and myself, as a minor can not live on her own. And if it suits her, I can have all 3 children with me. This should be the worst case scenario.

Thank you for saying this. I was almost in tears thinking about the little girl wondering if someone in her family still cared enough about her to give her a home. Since you clearly do care I can see that you're in a terrible position yourself and it's absolutely unfair. Thank goodness you were evidently able to get citizenship before this all went down so that you can rely on public support to ease your way if need be (this is absolutely the kind of suffering that a good society helps its members deal with). I think I can speak for all of us on the thread so far when I say that we believe in your ability as an adult to take care of your daughter and we wish you well. Perhaps when your wife sees the grave and serious nature of the situation she's putting your family into, she'll come to her senses.

Glass fused light

You daughter has a right to live with you. You however can not be compelled to bring her to live with you.  If, for what ever reason, both parents are unable to provide suitable care (including accommodation) for a child the UK state has an obligation and the right to act in the best interest of the child and make suitable provision irrespective of the wishes of either parent.  I don't see how making a child move into a household where they would be the focus point of conflict would be in her best interest.

From your description you do not appear to have been actively engaged with your first child's up bringing.  Families can be complicated so don't feel that you need to justify what has happened in the past. However your wife 'has' 2 children while you 'have' 3 so your wife's view of what your family unit is different to yours. Your wife has a right and entitlement to act and make decisions in the best interest of 'her' children and considering that she will be co-parenting what is best for herself too. It's very unfair to your first child but taking on a teen and integrating her and other family members into a single family will be no easy task so it's only human to have concerns.

You need to start looking at what concerns your wife has and how they will impact on you, her, and all your children.  Only once you list all the issues can you begin to figure out if you both can arrive at a solution.  This may be that your first child remains in care while your all get to know each other and work out the ground rules of how living together will work and there is a support system put in place to manage or resolve any conflicts which arise.  It may actually be in the best interest of your first daughter not to be brought into your current household or indeed not to live with you at all.

It's not that " I need to reach a decision " it's " We need to reach a decision " .  IMO that is only a conclusion that can be arrived at by you communicating with your wife and seeing if she is willing to engage in the process.

Delivering ultimatums are good in theory, but you should not be having a "chat" with your wife, you should be listening and addressing her concerns. IMO suggesting that she will walk away from the children she is seeking to "protect" is closing down any chance of communication.

Orion

Turtle_ wrote: »

Btw, it's wife v daughter. She's your daughter, not your stepdaughter. Stop thinking of her as a stepdaughter and start thinking of her as the fully fledged member of your family she should be.

I think he means she's the wife's stepdaughter not his own.

Orion

Baybay wrote: »

I don't think telling the OP that his wife is horrible or that he's a bad guy is helpful.

I agree entirely. Let's see if we can help without calling any party names please

Orion

bambay wrote: »

The problem is that my wife fails to see her as a family member

Your wife is wrong. She's your daughter therefore she is family whether she likes it or not. She needs to accept that.

nkav86

In my opinion, bottom line should always be, your kids come first. By reading through here I think you know that too. Your daughter needs help and needs to know that no matter what you want and love her. She must be feeling awful about this situation.

Ghekko

I can kind of see your wife's point of view. She has been living in a happy family bubble with you and the children you have together. No doubt when ye got married, your other daughter was living in UK with her mum and there may not have been a hint of possibility of you having full time care of her in the future. Your wife was probably content (or tolerant) with you visiting your daughter or your daughter having the odd visit to your house.
But now things have changed dramatically and your wife's happy bubble is about to be damaged with the arrival of your daughter. Yes, she probably has issues given her relationship with your ex and she may be difficult, but she is a child. It's all she has learned from her upbringing thus far. Your wife needs to be on board to help integrate your daughter to your way of living. She will have to get used to a different way of being disciplined, get used to new school, friends etc. The poor girl is in for a huge change and will ultimately cling to you for support. Your wife needs to be aware of this and realise that you will need to devote a lot of attention to your daughter to help her settle in to her new life. And who knows, your daughter may settle very quickly if living with her mum has been rocky.


You need your wife to meet with the social worker too. She can air her concerns with a neutral person and hopefully the social worker can help her see that this move is vital to you and your daughter. If you give her the option of you leaving, you are then walking out on your other 2 kids and this will cause ructions. You can't be forced to choose between your children and it's unfair that your wife is putting you in this situation.

I can't see that your daughter would forgive you if she goes into care without getting the chance to live with you. While your wife is probably pissed off and scared at the thoughts of what's to come - possible arguments, sibling rivalry etc - she needs to step up and accept that you were a dad before you met her.